If you want Butch, why wouldn't you want Larry Fedora?

[The Franchise]

He's a sure thing to stack a roster and get us to 9 wins. Anything other than that isn't a sure thing with Davis.

Why 9 wins? In his last season, he won 11 games and finished #2 in the country. His established ceiling is far above anything we've seen from Fedora.

You're ignoring all the other data and focusing on his one good season. He's been a HC in college 10 years and had that one good season. Nevermind the fact that we could argue that he underachieved that season too with the mega roster he built. He had no business losing to UW, and he had no business playing footsy with La Tech that year, which kept us out of the NC game.

 

[tpres]

Fedora would be an absolute steal.

1A Fedora
1B Herman
2 Dantonio

then a whole lot of maybes.

 

[paksat]

He's a sure thing to stack a roster and get us to 9 wins. Anything other than that isn't a sure thing with Davis.

Why 9 wins? In his last season, he won 11 games and finished #2 in the country. His established ceiling is far above anything we've seen from Fedora.

You're ignoring all the other data and focusing on his one good season. He's been a HC in college 10 years and had that one good season. Nevermind the fact that we could argue that he underachieved that season too with the mega roster he built. He had no business losing to UW, and he had no business playing footsy with La Tech that year, which kept us out of the NC game.

UW lost one game that entire season..

 

[LuCane]

Why would you hire a guy (Butch) who you know is an inferior HC to a division rival (Fedora)? They both coached at the same program, and Fedora has already surpassed Butch's best season. And he still has 4 games left to play.

You really think Butch is an inferior coach to Larry Fedora? What exactly is that based on? Is it really as simple as "coached at the same program and Fedora has already surpassed win totals?"

If you're just trolling, nevermind. But, if you're serious, I'm curious how you reach your conclusion that Larry Fedora is superior to Butch Davis.

I don't think Butch would have accomplished what Fedora did at Sothern Mess either. He won 12 games there, a conference championship and completely destroyed Sumlin's best Houston team in the conference championship game. Look what happened to that program after he left.

There's also no doubt that Fedora is a very good offensive mind and has had excellent success coaching offenses in college over the years. He would light up the scoreboard down here.

The only thing he was missing at UNC was a quality DC. Unlike Butch with Shoop, Fedora fired his **** DC and hired a great one. Certainly, that should show people that he was willing to make a tough move that Davis wasn't in order to improve his staff and improve the team.

Why is it so crazy to think a guy who is about to set the UNC record for wins in a season while coaching under continuous NCAA investigations that are still ongoing is better than a guy who maxed out at 8 wins at the same program over the same time frame?

Because you're basing it on total number of wins without any mention of context. And, now you're using a "cloud" argument for Fedora?

I think anyone reasonable would agree that Fedora is a good offensive coach and would likely "light up the scoreboard" down here. And, Butch has fired assistants (friends) to replace with good assistants before. You know that as well as anyone because he did it here.

I just gave you more reasons why I think Fedora is better than Butch. You just ignored them and focused on the fact that Fedora is doing better at the same program.

And, yes, I did use a cloud argument in Fedora's favor. Do you think it's easier to recruit and build a program at UNC with no investigation (Davis) or while under a constant investigation and under actual sanctions (Fedora)? Just because Folden wore out that cloud **** doesn't mean that there's zero legitimacy to the effects of constant NCAA investigations and actual sanctions.

From what I can read, and just re-read, your additional reasons are that (1) you don't think Butch would be able to do what Fedora did at his prior stop (not difficult to argue that Fedora might not be able to to do what Butch has done at his prior stops), the fact that (2) he's a good offensive coach that can light it up, which isn't being debated (not difficult to say Butch has a history of defensive prowess), and that (3) he apparently fires assistants when they're not working (which Butch has done the same). They weren't ignored. I actually mentioned them in my post. I guess I expected more. I don't consider those definitive reasons why one is better than the other. And, I'm not saying it's so crazy that it shouldn't be discussed.

The Cloud thing is questionable, at best, because you're one of the hardest (rightfully so, I've thought) on Golden for using his "cloud," which was arguably worse than the one you're using in support of Fedora.

 

[BigCaneAl]

Larry Fedora would be a good hire. I wouldn't be upset.

 

[The Franchise]

He's a sure thing to stack a roster and get us to 9 wins. Anything other than that isn't a sure thing with Davis.

Why 9 wins? In his last season, he won 11 games and finished #2 in the country. His established ceiling is far above anything we've seen from Fedora.

You're ignoring all the other data and focusing on his one good season. He's been a HC in college 10 years and had that one good season. Nevermind the fact that we could argue that he underachieved that season too with the mega roster he built. He had no business losing to UW, and he had no business playing footsy with La Tech that year, which kept us out of the NC game.

UW lost one game that entire season..

Doesn't matter. They had no business being in that game with us. We proved how much better we were the following season when the players just went out there and played freely and spilled their guts.

 

[The Franchise]

You really think Butch is an inferior coach to Larry Fedora? What exactly is that based on? Is it really as simple as "coached at the same program and Fedora has already surpassed win totals?"

If you're just trolling, nevermind. But, if you're serious, I'm curious how you reach your conclusion that Larry Fedora is superior to Butch Davis.

I don't think Butch would have accomplished what Fedora did at Sothern Mess either. He won 12 games there, a conference championship and completely destroyed Sumlin's best Houston team in the conference championship game. Look what happened to that program after he left.

There's also no doubt that Fedora is a very good offensive mind and has had excellent success coaching offenses in college over the years. He would light up the scoreboard down here.

The only thing he was missing at UNC was a quality DC. Unlike Butch with Shoop, Fedora fired his **** DC and hired a great one. Certainly, that should show people that he was willing to make a tough move that Davis wasn't in order to improve his staff and improve the team.

Why is it so crazy to think a guy who is about to set the UNC record for wins in a season while coaching under continuous NCAA investigations that are still ongoing is better than a guy who maxed out at 8 wins at the same program over the same time frame?

Because you're basing it on total number of wins without any mention of context. And, now you're using a "cloud" argument for Fedora?

I think anyone reasonable would agree that Fedora is a good offensive coach and would likely "light up the scoreboard" down here. And, Butch has fired assistants (friends) to replace with good assistants before. You know that as well as anyone because he did it here.

I just gave you more reasons why I think Fedora is better than Butch. You just ignored them and focused on the fact that Fedora is doing better at the same program.

And, yes, I did use a cloud argument in Fedora's favor. Do you think it's easier to recruit and build a program at UNC with no investigation (Davis) or while under a constant investigation and under actual sanctions (Fedora)? Just because Folden wore out that cloud **** doesn't mean that there's zero legitimacy to the effects of constant NCAA investigations and actual sanctions.

From what I can read, and just re-read, your additional reasons are that (1) you don't think Butch would be able to do what Fedora did at his prior stop (not difficult to argue that Fedora might not be able to to do what Butch has done at his prior stops), the fact that (2) he's a good offensive coach that can light it up, which isn't being debated (not difficult to say Butch has a history of defensive prowess), and that (3) he apparently fires assistants when they're not working (which Butch has done the same). They weren't ignored. I actually mentioned them in my post. I guess I expected more. I don't consider those definitive reasons why one is better than the other. And, I'm not saying it's so crazy that it shouldn't be discussed.

The Cloud thing is questionable, at best, because you're one of the hardest (rightfully so, I've thought) on Golden for using his "cloud," which was arguably worse than the one you're using in support of Fedora.

I was against using the cloud as an excuse for losing games to teams that we have more talent than. I'd be against using it for that same reason to justify Fedora losing games to teams he has more talent than. However, it would be disingenuous for you to argue that Fedora has been building UNC's program under the same circumstances that Davis was when he was there.

And I don't think UNC's "cloud" is less daunting than UM's considering it's still going to this date and that their actual sanctions were worse.

 

[Chuckles]

People prefer Butch because they've seen him do it at the highest level.

Do we know if Fedora can build a national championship contender? Can he deal with the expectations? Does he know how to work within the unique strengths and weaknesses of this program?

We know the answer with Butch. And as you said back when you supported Butch, this program needs a sure thing.

And most of all this is a theoretical discussion. Is Fedora an option?

 

[paksat]

He's a sure thing to stack a roster and get us to 9 wins. Anything other than that isn't a sure thing with Davis.

Why 9 wins? In his last season, he won 11 games and finished #2 in the country. His established ceiling is far above anything we've seen from Fedora.

You're ignoring all the other data and focusing on his one good season. He's been a HC in college 10 years and had that one good season. Nevermind the fact that we could argue that he underachieved that season too with the mega roster he built. He had no business losing to UW, and he had no business playing footsy with La Tech that year, which kept us out of the NC game.

UW lost one game that entire season..

Doesn't matter. They had no business being in that game with us. We proved how much better we were the following season when the players just went out there and played freely and spilled their guts.

ah yeah, must have been larry coker that savage head coach himself putting his stamp on the team

 

[LuCane]

I don't think Butch would have accomplished what Fedora did at Sothern Mess either. He won 12 games there, a conference championship and completely destroyed Sumlin's best Houston team in the conference championship game. Look what happened to that program after he left.

There's also no doubt that Fedora is a very good offensive mind and has had excellent success coaching offenses in college over the years. He would light up the scoreboard down here.

The only thing he was missing at UNC was a quality DC. Unlike Butch with Shoop, Fedora fired his **** DC and hired a great one. Certainly, that should show people that he was willing to make a tough move that Davis wasn't in order to improve his staff and improve the team.

Why is it so crazy to think a guy who is about to set the UNC record for wins in a season while coaching under continuous NCAA investigations that are still ongoing is better than a guy who maxed out at 8 wins at the same program over the same time frame?

Because you're basing it on total number of wins without any mention of context. And, now you're using a "cloud" argument for Fedora?

I think anyone reasonable would agree that Fedora is a good offensive coach and would likely "light up the scoreboard" down here. And, Butch has fired assistants (friends) to replace with good assistants before. You know that as well as anyone because he did it here.

I just gave you more reasons why I think Fedora is better than Butch. You just ignored them and focused on the fact that Fedora is doing better at the same program.

And, yes, I did use a cloud argument in Fedora's favor. Do you think it's easier to recruit and build a program at UNC with no investigation (Davis) or while under a constant investigation and under actual sanctions (Fedora)? Just because Folden wore out that cloud **** doesn't mean that there's zero legitimacy to the effects of constant NCAA investigations and actual sanctions.

From what I can read, and just re-read, your additional reasons are that (1) you don't think Butch would be able to do what Fedora did at his prior stop (not difficult to argue that Fedora might not be able to to do what Butch has done at his prior stops), the fact that (2) he's a good offensive coach that can light it up, which isn't being debated (not difficult to say Butch has a history of defensive prowess), and that (3) he apparently fires assistants when they're not working (which Butch has done the same). They weren't ignored. I actually mentioned them in my post. I guess I expected more. I don't consider those definitive reasons why one is better than the other. And, I'm not saying it's so crazy that it shouldn't be discussed.

The Cloud thing is questionable, at best, because you're one of the hardest (rightfully so, I've thought) on Golden for using his "cloud," which was arguably worse than the one you're using in support of Fedora.

I was against using the cloud as an excuse for losing games to teams that we have more talent than. I'd be against using it for that same reason to justify Fedora losing games to teams he has more talent than. However, it would be disingenuous for you to argue that Fedora has been building UNC's program under the same circumstances that Davis was when he was there.

And I don't think UNC's "cloud" is less daunting than UM's considering it's still going to this date and that their actual sanctions were worse.

Davis took over a complete **** team and program. We can agree on that, no?

 

[Mico Jones]

Butch was ready to blow up college football the season the scandal & suspensions hit.

 

[The Franchise]

Because you're basing it on total number of wins without any mention of context. And, now you're using a "cloud" argument for Fedora?

I think anyone reasonable would agree that Fedora is a good offensive coach and would likely "light up the scoreboard" down here. And, Butch has fired assistants (friends) to replace with good assistants before. You know that as well as anyone because he did it here.

I just gave you more reasons why I think Fedora is better than Butch. You just ignored them and focused on the fact that Fedora is doing better at the same program.

And, yes, I did use a cloud argument in Fedora's favor. Do you think it's easier to recruit and build a program at UNC with no investigation (Davis) or while under a constant investigation and under actual sanctions (Fedora)? Just because Folden wore out that cloud **** doesn't mean that there's zero legitimacy to the effects of constant NCAA investigations and actual sanctions.

From what I can read, and just re-read, your additional reasons are that (1) you don't think Butch would be able to do what Fedora did at his prior stop (not difficult to argue that Fedora might not be able to to do what Butch has done at his prior stops), the fact that (2) he's a good offensive coach that can light it up, which isn't being debated (not difficult to say Butch has a history of defensive prowess), and that (3) he apparently fires assistants when they're not working (which Butch has done the same). They weren't ignored. I actually mentioned them in my post. I guess I expected more. I don't consider those definitive reasons why one is better than the other. And, I'm not saying it's so crazy that it shouldn't be discussed.

The Cloud thing is questionable, at best, because you're one of the hardest (rightfully so, I've thought) on Golden for using his "cloud," which was arguably worse than the one you're using in support of Fedora.

I was against using the cloud as an excuse for losing games to teams that we have more talent than. I'd be against using it for that same reason to justify Fedora losing games to teams he has more talent than. However, it would be disingenuous for you to argue that Fedora has been building UNC's program under the same circumstances that Davis was when he was there.

And I don't think UNC's "cloud" is less daunting than UM's considering it's still going to this date and that their actual sanctions were worse.

Davis took over a complete **** team and program. We can agree on that, no?

He took over a UNC team that was 14-21 over the previous 3 seasons. And he took over a team with some pretty good veteran players on it. Pretty sure there were 9 guys eventually drafted to the NFL off the team he inherited including studs like Kentwan Balmer, Hakeem Nicks, Brandon Tate, Brooks Foster, Richard Quinn, Cam Thomas.

So, it wasn't a great team, but it was far from this total reclamation project of a complete **** team/program. It was a pretty typical program where the HC gets fired for underachieving.

 

[corny cane]

Larry fedora lost to Golden twice, including last year in a 6-7 campaign.
Currently UNC SOS is at 71, and the only loss is to 3-7 South carolina

When Butch went to NC, they were irrelevant, and he supposedly raised around 100 million bucks, and had some serious talent until the academic scandal broke and left his studs on the sideline.

Fedora has done a nice job, and UNC should be happy with the 10 win, coastal championship ceiling, but he is no Butch Davis. He cant sniff what butch did in 2000

 

[Rellyrell]

Easy answer to the Butch vs. Fedora debate:

Would UNC give up Fedora to get Butch back?

I'm guessing they wouldn't ...

If they wouldn't trade Fedora for Butch, that would suggest they view Fedora as the better coach ...

Lol...you guys KILL me. Ok, so how many are casual football fans vs. Canes fans on here? So Larry is better than Butch, b/c in year four against a powder puff schedule he's 9-1? Let's go down his history b/4 we crown him:

In year one he started off 8-4...not bad for a first year coach taking over a mess, but in year two he went to 7-6, and then in year three he went to 6-7. But now that's he's 9-1 we should hire him?? Could it be that the 9-1 is very similar to when Miami started off 7-0 in 2013?

Game one, L to a bad USCe team
Game two, blow out to out their brethren UNC...A&T
Game three, blow out of Illinois (we know the problems they are having there)
Game four, blow out of the mighty Delaware Fighting Blue Hens
Game five, win against an overrated, back to earth GT team
Game six, blow out against their other basketball arch rival, Wake Forest
Game seven, win against the UVA Cavaliers
Game eight, win against an up and coming Pitt team
Game nine, win against a spiraling Duke team
Game ten, win against us

So out of the 9 wins, 2 of them came at the expense of 2 FCS teams and the other 7 came at the expense of teams who compiled a 47% winning pct.

How many ranked teams have Fedora beat this year? How many ranked teams have Fedora played this year?

You can't even compare the two in coaching abilities. Butch had #8 LSU, #16 FSU, #15 VT and #25 NC State on the schedule, this w/ 13 impactful players missing from his roster!

Some of will go to great lengths to try to trash Butch and you STILL haven't learned your lesson from when he was here. Is it b/c he made us all out to look bad for calling for his head? Is it b/c it took him 5 years to finally get us back to being the bullies on the block? Or is it b/c he left when he was building a dynasty in the making and you resent him b/c now look at us?

Whatever it is, get over it. You don't need to try to put him down by elevating a corch who's doing a good job against a weak schedule.

 

[deleted3746]

Larry fedora lost to Golden twice, including last year in a 6-7 campaign.
Currently UNC SOS is at 71, and the only loss is to 3-7 South carolina

When Butch went to NC, they were irrelevant, and he supposedly raised around 100 million bucks, and had some some serious talent until the academic scandal broke.

Fedora has done a nice job, and UNC should be happy with the 10 win, coastal championship ceiling, but he is no Butch Davis. He cant sniff what butch did in 2000

It's 2015. What has Butch done since 2000?

 

[millertime26]

I can't even believe what I'm reading. Who did fedora beat ? He blows out a Miami team that can't even line up right, and y'all want him as your coach. I've been playing football my whole life and I've never seen a team line up and do things so wrong. There is honestly no point of having Harris or McCord at linebacker there just taking up space. Also, have y'all ever wondered how the **** did coach golden even get the job at Miami.

 

[corny cane]

Larry fedora lost to Golden twice, including last year in a 6-7 campaign.
Currently UNC SOS is at 71, and the only loss is to 3-7 South carolina

When Butch went to NC, they were irrelevant, and he supposedly raised around 100 million bucks, and had some some serious talent until the academic scandal broke.

Fedora has done a nice job, and UNC should be happy with the 10 win, coastal championship ceiling, but he is no Butch Davis. He cant sniff what butch did in 2000

It's 2015. What has Butch done since 2000?

It's 2015, what has fedora done? He was 6-7 and lost badly to 6-7 Golden coached Miami. Imagine if he didn't land Williams, who is pretty much his whole offense

 

[deleted3746]

Larry fedora lost to Golden twice, including last year in a 6-7 campaign.
Currently UNC SOS is at 71, and the only loss is to 3-7 South carolina

When Butch went to NC, they were irrelevant, and he supposedly raised around 100 million bucks, and had some some serious talent until the academic scandal broke.

Fedora has done a nice job, and UNC should be happy with the 10 win, coastal championship ceiling, but he is no Butch Davis. He cant sniff what butch did in 2000

It's 2015. What has Butch done since 2000?

It's 2015, what has fedora done? He was 6-7 and lost badly to 6-7 Golden coached Miami. Imagine if he didn't land Williams, who is pretty much his whole offense

About to win the coastal and go to the ACC CG.

What was Butch's greatest accomplishment at UNC?

 

[252cane]

Larry fedora lost to Golden twice, including last year in a 6-7 campaign.
Currently UNC SOS is at 71, and the only loss is to 3-7 South carolina

When Butch went to NC, they were irrelevant, and he supposedly raised around 100 million bucks, and had some some serious talent until the academic scandal broke.

Fedora has done a nice job, and UNC should be happy with the 10 win, coastal championship ceiling, but he is no Butch Davis. He cant sniff what butch did in 2000

It's 2015. What has Butch done since 2000?

Nobody is sniffing what butch did in 2000 and that's including butch. That's once in a lifetime type **** and likely won't happen again.

If he were the coach miami would have more talent. He might be able to build a team good enough to compete for a nc but not at the 2000 level.

 

[deleted3746]

Still waiting to find out what Butch has done in college football since the Sugar Bowl vs UF.