If you want Butch, why wouldn't you want Larry Fedora?

[terdferguson]

Let's be realistic about Butch. His biggest attribute is his recruiting. We all know that. He put together one of the best collections of talent in the history of the game at Miami. So now, the two important questions are: 1. How replicable is that? 2. How would Butch perform with anything less than the best collection of talent in ncaa history?

1. The answer is not very replicable. To assemble that kind of talent takes skill but also some level of luck. It's not just a matter of locking down south florida as many prominent players on those teams were from other areas of the state and out of state. Butch can recruit and recruit at a high level. I have no doubt that he would do very well at upgrading the talent on our roster. But the odds of stockpiling "best in history of the game" talent a second time would be low.

2. If Butch were to have very good talent but not best of all time talent, how would he do? Well, we have the unc years to look at as well as some years at Miami like 98 and 99. When you examine those years there is no doubt that there's more games where Butch lost to less talented teams than there are games where he defeated teams with more talent.

Conclusion: Butch would certainly upgrade the talent level on our roster but odds are against him assembling a best of all time talented team again. In addition, there is no evidence to suggest that Butch can compete at the very highest level of college football without a roster that is historically talented. Therefore the most likely outcome of a Butch hire is that he makes us better but would not bring us to the national championship level.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Let's be realistic about Butch. His biggest attribute is his recruiting. We all know that. He put together one of the best collections of talent in the history of the game at Miami. So now, the two important questions are: 1. How replicable is that? 2. How would Butch perform with anything less than the best collection of talent in ncaa history?

1. The answer is not very replicable. To assemble that kind of talent takes skill but also some level of luck. It's not just a matter of locking down south florida as many prominent players on those teams were from other areas of the state and out of state. Butch can recruit and recruit at a high level. I have no doubt that he would do very well at upgrading the talent on our roster. But the odds of stockpiling "best in history of the game" talent a second time would be low.

2. If Butch were to have very good talent but not best of all time talent, how would he do? Well, we have the unc years to look at as well as some years at Miami like 98 and 99. When you examine those years there is no doubt that there's more games where Butch lost to less talented teams than there are games where he defeated teams with more talent.

Conclusion: Butch would certainly upgrade the talent level on our roster but odds are against him assembling a best of all time talented team again. In addition, there is no evidence to suggest that Butch can compete at the very highest level of college football without a roster that is historically talented. Therefore the most likely outcome of a Butch hire is that he makes us better but would not bring us to the national championship level.

I think his skill in player development had at least as much to do with the quality of the 2001 team as his skill in recruiting. He didn't just convince a bunch of 5 stars to come here and then get out of the way while they gained experience and ultimately won. He develops players.

 

[MIATL]

Let's be realistic about Butch. His biggest attribute is his recruiting. We all know that. He put together one of the best collections of talent in the history of the game at Miami. So now, the two important questions are: 1. How replicable is that? 2. How would Butch perform with anything less than the best collection of talent in ncaa history?

1. The answer is not very replicable. To assemble that kind of talent takes skill but also some level of luck. It's not just a matter of locking down south florida as many prominent players on those teams were from other areas of the state and out of state. Butch can recruit and recruit at a high level. I have no doubt that he would do very well at upgrading the talent on our roster. But the odds of stockpiling "best in history of the game" talent a second time would be low.

2. If Butch were to have very good talent but not best of all time talent, how would he do? Well, we have the unc years to look at as well as some years at Miami like 98 and 99. When you examine those years there is no doubt that there's more games where Butch lost to less talented teams than there are games where he defeated teams with more talent.

Conclusion: Butch would certainly upgrade the talent level on our roster but odds are against him assembling a best of all time talented team again. In addition, there is no evidence to suggest that Butch can compete at the very highest level of college football without a roster that is historically talented. Therefore the most likely outcome of a Butch hire is that he makes us better but would not bring us to the national championship level.

This might be the most reasonable post I've seen on this.

And as someone who is more concerned with how we do in our games than how we do in the NFL draft, that's not enough for me.

I'd rather we get a coach who can develop talents and win games! You win enough in South Florida, and recruiting takes care of itself. As cliche as that sounds, it's the truth.

It ain't hard to sell kids on going to school in Coral Gables and winning football games!

 

[deleted3746]

When Fedora took over UNC after Butch was fired, UNC finished tied for 1st in the coastal with Butch's players but couldn't play in the ACC CG because of NCAA probation from Butch's tenure.

Now, in year 4, Fedora is about to win the coastal with his players and play in the ACC CG.

Fedora is progressing while Butch has regressed.

 

[INCaneFan]

Easy answer to the Butch vs. Fedora debate:

Would UNC give up Fedora to get Butch back?

I'm guessing they wouldn't ...

If they wouldn't trade Fedora for Butch, that would suggest they view Fedora as the better coach ...

Ask this same question last year and I'd say they'd take Butch back. This year they're having some success, but I guarantee you that UNC's 2010 team beats the **** out of this 2015 team.

2010 North Carolina Tar Heels Football Schedule | UNC

Please take a look at that schedule, and the results.

Then take a look at this one ...

2015 North Carolina Tar Heels Football Schedule | UNC

UNC is blowing teams off the field.

This isn't the "smoke and mirrors" 7-0 Miami had, they've scored over 50 points 4 times this season, and 38 or more in 7 games.

And that 2010 Tennessee team that it took 2 OTs for Butch to beat finished the season 6-7, and was 3-5 in the SEC ...

This UNC team would beat any Butch had at UNC nd it's due to Fedora and company being the superior staff.

 

[Zubair ILyas]

Because he's not Butch

 

[canaholic]

Fedora is good, Butch is good...splitting hairs here...

Butch knows Florida, Fedora doesn't.
Butch wins against top 25, Fedora has yet to.
Fedora's onside debacle when up 24-0 against us was a slap in our face that we will NOT forget!!!

Payback is a Butch, whoops B*tch. U know what I mean!!!

BBB

 

[theibisrules]

Are people really this stupid? Could it be that his 9-1 record is the product of an insanely easy schedule?

Yes, yes it is. The only teams they've beaten this season are Pitt, Duke and Miami. Not exactly much to talk about there. Lost to USCe, who has turned out to be terrible.

Pump your brakes.

Yes they are that stupid sir.

 

[paksat]

because I like my 3rd string safety being sean taylor

 

[pyhooya]

Please list the current ranked teams that Fedora has beaten or will beat this year? Better yet list the ranked teams Fedora beat last year. Even give you another year, list the ranked teams Fedora beat in 2013? Is Fedora a good coach.... sure. Can he beat a ranked team? Dont think he has done it in 3 years and maybe even farther back.

 

[The Franchise]

Why would you hire a guy (Butch) who you know is an inferior HC to a division rival (Fedora)? They both coached at the same program, and Fedora has already surpassed Butch's best season. And he still has 4 games left to play.

You really think Butch is an inferior coach to Larry Fedora? What exactly is that based on? Is it really as simple as "coached at the same program and Fedora has already surpassed win totals?"

If you're just trolling, nevermind. But, if you're serious, I'm curious how you reach your conclusion that Larry Fedora is superior to Butch Davis.

I don't think Butch would have accomplished what Fedora did at Sothern Mess either. He won 12 games there, a conference championship and completely destroyed Sumlin's best Houston team in the conference championship game. Look what happened to that program after he left.

There's also no doubt that Fedora is a very good offensive mind and has had excellent success coaching offenses in college over the years. He would light up the scoreboard down here.

The only thing he was missing at UNC was a quality DC. Unlike Butch with Shoop, Fedora fired his **** DC and hired a great one. Certainly, that should show people that he was willing to make a tough move that Davis wasn't in order to improve his staff and improve the team.

Why is it so crazy to think a guy who is about to set the UNC record for wins in a season while coaching under continuous NCAA investigations that are still ongoing is better than a guy who maxed out at 8 wins at the same program over the same time frame?

Because you're basing it on total number of wins without any mention of context. And, now you're using a "cloud" argument for Fedora?

I think anyone reasonable would agree that Fedora is a good offensive coach and would likely "light up the scoreboard" down here. And, Butch has fired assistants (friends) to replace with good assistants before. You know that as well as anyone because he did it here.

I just gave you more reasons why I think Fedora is better than Butch. You just ignored them and focused on the fact that Fedora is doing better at the same program.

And, yes, I did use a cloud argument in Fedora's favor. Do you think it's easier to recruit and build a program at UNC with no investigation (Davis) or while under a constant investigation and under actual sanctions (Fedora)? Just because Folden wore out that cloud **** doesn't mean that there's zero legitimacy to the effects of constant NCAA investigations and actual sanctions.

 

[The Franchise]

It's funny that people ignore that it took four years for Fedora to get UNC playing this good and they complain about Butch's third season when he inherited a worse team. Butch's fourth year was taken from him.

Nothing was "taken" from Butch. Butch hired a known scalawag. A dirty scoundrel. That filthy bag man wound up acting in conformity with the character he had when Butch hired him, and as a result, players got gifts and got suspended. It was certainly foreseeable that Black Santa would do something against the rules.

Funny that the scandal started ten years before Butch though. Also, it still took Fedora four years.

The scandal of hiring Blake and then having Blake link the players up with agents giving gifts to them is separate from the academic scandal. Butch hired Blake. The Blake scandal is all on Butch and so is the subsequent player involvement with agents and being ruled ineligible.

 

[The Franchise]

It's funny that people ignore that it took four years for Fedora to get UNC playing this good and they complain about Butch's third season when he inherited a worse team. Butch's fourth year was taken from him.

Butch pulled better recruiting classes and went 15-17 in the ACC

Fedora pulled worse classes than Butch and is 19-11 in the ACC.

Hmmmmm.

Butch took over a team that won 2 games the previous year and had a year with 13 players suspended. Fedora had none of these issues so that gap should be much bigger. But context isn't for the simple minded.

Stop spreading lies. Butch took over a team that won 3 games. Butch then won 4 games. Not exactly a great turnaround.

 

[paksat]

you mean that same UNC team that we ***ing ANNIHILATED last year with this high school coaching staff?

 

[DMoney]

People prefer Butch because they've seen him do it at the highest level.

Do we know if Fedora can build a national championship contender? Can he deal with the expectations? Does he know how to work within the unique strengths and weaknesses of this program?

We know the answer with Butch. And as you said back when you supported Butch, this program needs a sure thing.

 

[KevinCaneFace]

I think I missed when Fedora put together the greatest team ever to step on to a college football field. What year was that?

 

[The Franchise]

He's a sure thing to stack a roster and get us to 9 wins. Anything other than that isn't a sure thing with Davis.

 

[TreOFive]

boy the juice is flowing today isn't it?
Cant wait till we know who the coach will be so we can stop all the b!tching back and forth. Only then will we know if this admin is serious or if they want to remain mediocre

 

[DMoney]

He's a sure thing to stack a roster and get us to 9 wins. Anything other than that isn't a sure thing with Davis.

Why 9 wins? In his last season, he won 11 games and finished #2 in the country. His established ceiling is far above anything we've seen from Fedora.

 

[Rellyrell]

Why would you hire a guy (Butch) who you know is an inferior HC to a division rival (Fedora)? They both coached at the same program, and Fedora has already surpassed Butch's best season. And he still has 4 games left to play.

Mark Dantonio's record at Michigan State runs circles around Nick Saban's record at Michigan State, therefore Dantonio is a better coach.

^^^^ This