If you want Butch, why wouldn't you want Larry Fedora?

[MIATL]

Easy answer to the Butch vs. Fedora debate:

Would UNC give up Fedora to get Butch back?

I'm guessing they wouldn't ...

If they wouldn't trade Fedora for Butch, that would suggest they view Fedora as the better coach ...

Lol...you guys KILL me. Ok, so how many are casual football fans vs. Canes fans on here? So Larry is better than Butch, b/c in year four against a powder puff schedule he's 9-1? Let's go down his history b/4 we crown him:

In year one he started off 8-4...not bad for a first year coach taking over a mess, but in year two he went to 7-6, and then in year three he went to 6-7. But now that's he's 9-1 we should hire him?? Could it be that the 9-1 is very similar to when Miami started off 7-0 in 2013?

Game one, L to a bad USCe team
Game two, blow out to out their brethren UNC...A&T
Game three, blow out of Illinois (we know the problems they are having there)
Game four, blow out of the mighty Delaware Fighting Blue Hens
Game five, win against an overrated, back to earth GT team
Game six, blow out against their other basketball arch rival, Wake Forest
Game seven, win against the UVA Cavaliers
Game eight, win against an up and coming Pitt team
Game nine, win against a spiraling Duke team
Game ten, win against us

So out of the 9 wins, 2 of them came at the expense of 2 FCS teams and the other 7 came at the expense of teams who compiled a 47% winning pct.

How many ranked teams have Fedora beat this year? How many ranked teams have Fedora played this year?

You can't even compare the two in coaching abilities. Butch had #8 LSU, #16 FSU, #15 VT and #25 NC State on the schedule, this w/ 13 impactful players missing from his roster!

Some of will go to great lengths to try to trash Butch and you STILL haven't learned your lesson from when he was here. Is it b/c he made us all out to look bad for calling for his head? Is it b/c it took him 5 years to finally get us back to being the bullies on the block? Or is it b/c he left when he was building a dynasty in the making and you resent him b/c now look at us?

Whatever it is, get over it. You don't need to try to put him down by elevating a corch who's doing a good job against a weak schedule.

You're taking this way too personally ...

I'll make it clear for you:

I don't resent Butch. I just don't think he's as good a HC TODAY as he was 10-20 years ago. I think Butch is on the descent, and I think Fedora is on the ascent.

Doesn't mean I think Butch was terrible, or a failure. I just think he's past his prime.

Still built the greatest team of all-time. I'm not knocking what he did at UM.

But his time at UNC wasn't that special ... Considering what Mack Brown did, and what Fedora is doing. Clearly, good coaches can win there ... And win at a high level. Butch never did that ... And he was there 5 years ago ...

bruh....everything you try to do is discredit Butch's coaching ability while here and you continue to bring up his stint at UNC...sounds like you're taking it personal, homeboy.

Lol

I guess I didn't make it clear enough ...

Lol

My gripe is with Butch at UNC. How are you not getting that?!?! Lol

Pull any post where I knock what Butch did at Miami ...

You won't find one.

UNC is more current that Miami, so it's more relevant to me.

But I've never knocked what Butch did as HC at Miami.

 

[duke4heisman]

Easy answer to the Butch vs. Fedora debate:

Would UNC give up Fedora to get Butch back?

I'm guessing they wouldn't ...

If they wouldn't trade Fedora for Butch, that would suggest they view Fedora as the better coach ...

Lol...you guys KILL me. Ok, so how many are casual football fans vs. Canes fans on here? So Larry is better than Butch, b/c in year four against a powder puff schedule he's 9-1? Let's go down his history b/4 we crown him:

In year one he started off 8-4...not bad for a first year coach taking over a mess, but in year two he went to 7-6, and then in year three he went to 6-7. But now that's he's 9-1 we should hire him?? Could it be that the 9-1 is very similar to when Miami started off 7-0 in 2013?

Game one, L to a bad USCe team
Game two, blow out to out their brethren UNC...A&T
Game three, blow out of Illinois (we know the problems they are having there)
Game four, blow out of the mighty Delaware Fighting Blue Hens
Game five, win against an overrated, back to earth GT team
Game six, blow out against their other basketball arch rival, Wake Forest
Game seven, win against the UVA Cavaliers
Game eight, win against an up and coming Pitt team
Game nine, win against a spiraling Duke team
Game ten, win against us

So out of the 9 wins, 2 of them came at the expense of 2 FCS teams and the other 7 came at the expense of teams who compiled a 47% winning pct.

How many ranked teams have Fedora beat this year? How many ranked teams have Fedora played this year?

You can't even compare the two in coaching abilities. Butch had #8 LSU, #16 FSU, #15 VT and #25 NC State on the schedule, this w/ 13 impactful players missing from his roster!

Some of will go to great lengths to try to trash Butch and you STILL haven't learned your lesson from when he was here. Is it b/c he made us all out to look bad for calling for his head? Is it b/c it took him 5 years to finally get us back to being the bullies on the block? Or is it b/c he left when he was building a dynasty in the making and you resent him b/c now look at us?

Whatever it is, get over it. You don't need to try to put him down by elevating a corch who's doing a good job against a weak schedule.

You're taking this way too personally ...

I'll make it clear for you:

I don't resent Butch. I just don't think he's as good a HC TODAY as he was 10-20 years ago. I think Butch is on the descent, and I think Fedora is on the ascent.

Doesn't mean I think Butch was terrible, or a failure. I just think he's past his prime.

Still built the greatest team of all-time. I'm not knocking what he did at UM.

But his time at UNC wasn't that special ... Considering what Mack Brown did, and what Fedora is doing. Clearly, good coaches can win there ... And win at a high level. Butch never did that ... And he was there 5 years ago ...

bruh....everything you try to do is discredit Butch's coaching ability while here and you continue to bring up his stint at UNC...sounds like you're taking it personal, homeboy.

Lol

I guess I didn't make it clear enough ...

Lol

My gripe is with Butch at UNC. How are you not getting that?!?! Lol

Pull any post where I knock what Butch did at Miami ...

You won't find one.

UNC is more current that Miami, so it's more relevant to me.

But I've never knocked what Butch did as HC at Miami.

So if Saban went to Vandy or Belicheck to the Jags, would they suck? **** right but they are still great coaches. Same ****.

 

[deleted3746]

Butch Davis at UNC: 0-4 vs Tom O'Brien

 

[The Franchise]

From what I can read, and just re-read, your additional reasons are that (1) you don't think Butch would be able to do what Fedora did at his prior stop (not difficult to argue that Fedora might not be able to to do what Butch has done at his prior stops), the fact that (2) he's a good offensive coach that can light it up, which isn't being debated (not difficult to say Butch has a history of defensive prowess), and that (3) he apparently fires assistants when they're not working (which Butch has done the same). They weren't ignored. I actually mentioned them in my post. I guess I expected more. I don't consider those definitive reasons why one is better than the other. And, I'm not saying it's so crazy that it shouldn't be discussed.

The Cloud thing is questionable, at best, because you're one of the hardest (rightfully so, I've thought) on Golden for using his "cloud," which was arguably worse than the one you're using in support of Fedora.

I was against using the cloud as an excuse for losing games to teams that we have more talent than. I'd be against using it for that same reason to justify Fedora losing games to teams he has more talent than. However, it would be disingenuous for you to argue that Fedora has been building UNC's program under the same circumstances that Davis was when he was there.

And I don't think UNC's "cloud" is less daunting than UM's considering it's still going to this date and that their actual sanctions were worse.

Davis took over a complete **** team and program. We can agree on that, no?

He took over a UNC team that was 14-21 over the previous 3 seasons. And he took over a team with some pretty good veteran players on it. Pretty sure there were 9 guys eventually drafted to the NFL off the team he inherited including studs like Kentwan Balmer, Hakeem Nicks, Brandon Tate, Brooks Foster, Richard Quinn, Cam Thomas.

So, it wasn't a great team, but it was far from this total reclamation project of a complete **** team/program. It was a pretty typical program where the HC gets fired for underachieving.

A pretty typical program where the HC gets fired for underachieving? He took over a team that had won 3 games the year before. Those three victories came against Furman, a 3 win NC State team and a 1 win Duke team. His top offensive players - from QB to RB to WR - were all Frosh and Soph. His top 3 RBs were Frosh, as just one example.

We get it: you've moved away from your previous support of Butch Davis.

He took over a 3 win team with a bunch of NFL players on it and won 4 games with them. Pure genius. And Tom O'Brien owned that *** after John Bunting beat NCSU. No one can get production out of freshman RBs right?

Lulz at moving away from my previous support of Butch. Can't have a rational debate without getting hurt, so go after the poster. I've always been a huge critic of his coaching. He needs a monster talent advantage to win and doesn't even always win when he has one.

He'd be a good fallback option for us because we know what he can do. That's my position on him. He's a relatively safe option, but there are way better ones out there. I'd get sick watching more boring plodding football that wastes our speed advantage.

 

[LuCane]

I was against using the cloud as an excuse for losing games to teams that we have more talent than. I'd be against using it for that same reason to justify Fedora losing games to teams he has more talent than. However, it would be disingenuous for you to argue that Fedora has been building UNC's program under the same circumstances that Davis was when he was there.

And I don't think UNC's "cloud" is less daunting than UM's considering it's still going to this date and that their actual sanctions were worse.

Davis took over a complete **** team and program. We can agree on that, no?

He took over a UNC team that was 14-21 over the previous 3 seasons. And he took over a team with some pretty good veteran players on it. Pretty sure there were 9 guys eventually drafted to the NFL off the team he inherited including studs like Kentwan Balmer, Hakeem Nicks, Brandon Tate, Brooks Foster, Richard Quinn, Cam Thomas.

So, it wasn't a great team, but it was far from this total reclamation project of a complete **** team/program. It was a pretty typical program where the HC gets fired for underachieving.

A pretty typical program where the HC gets fired for underachieving? He took over a team that had won 3 games the year before. Those three victories came against Furman, a 3 win NC State team and a 1 win Duke team. His top offensive players - from QB to RB to WR - were all Frosh and Soph. His top 3 RBs were Frosh, as just one example.

We get it: you've moved away from your previous support of Butch Davis.

He took over a 3 win team with a bunch of NFL players on it and won 4 games with them. Pure genius. And Tom O'Brien owned that *** after John Bunting beat NCSU. No one can get production out of freshman RBs right?

Lulz at moving away from my previous support of Butch. Can't have a rational debate without getting hurt, so go after the poster. I've always been a huge critic of his coaching. He needs a monster talent advantage to win and doesn't even always win when he has one.

He'd be a good fallback option for us because we know what he can do. That's my position on him. He's a relatively safe option, but there are way better ones out there. I'd get sick watching more boring plodding football that wastes our speed advantage.

That's absolutely hilarious coming from you...and more specifically to me. A guy in this very thread was discussing facts with you and you replied with your butt being > than his tongue.

Jaromir Jagr said:
The Franchise said:
Stalk much?



Tell us again how using records at the same school proves that one coach is better than another. Pat Jones > Jimmy Johnson.



Tell us again how my butt tastes.

My butt > your tongue

I'm not hurt by anything. Here for what I hope is a non-emotional discussion. I'm not part of the "Butch or no one" crowd. I've started threads on Butch's obvious weaknesses. I have him and Herman as 1a 1b options depending on plans. And, I've agreed with everyone that they should be thorough and aim high. I try to encourage reasonable discussion and would challenge you to find any ad hominem attacks from me or namecalling. I mentioned your previous support of Butch because that's a fact and documented on this board. It's not that big of a deal, as everyone can change their mind.

 

[INCaneFan]

You guys do your best to ignore the fact that butch most talented players especially on defense was suspended for the year that you claimed he under achieved

You're doing your best to ignore that 2009 was his 3rd year, and the suspensions were in 2010 ...

He underachied in 2009. Team started the season ranked, and finished the season unranked.

That and people love to throw around the suspension like the entire team was suspended for the year. Rather than just repeat nonsense you read on some message board, fact check it. Most of the suspensions were brief, not season long.

 

[INCaneFan]

I forgot to add that Burch would've found a way to ***** up '01. He can't help himself and it's why he got the well deserved nickname, Botch.

 

[CaneScott]

I forgot to add that Burch would've found a way to ***** up '01. He can't help himself and it's why he got the well deserved nickname, Botch.

Would have went prevent Defense or something stupid and Bruce Arians would have been shooting his TV.

 

[brock]

Anyone trying to discredit Butch Davis at this point can not be taken seriously....

 

[Ibis Wingz]

Anyone trying to discredit Butch Davis at this point can not be taken seriously....

Says the guy who was stumping for F A G until the bitter end.

 

[caneboost]

Anyone who knocks Fedora winning against a weak schedule cannot and should not support Herman as our next HC.

 

[duke4heisman]

I forgot to add that Burch would've found a way to ***** up '01. He can't help himself and it's why he got the well deserved nickname, Botch.

FOH......so what your saying is Clappy is better than Butch? LOL

 

[CanesNation26]

Anyone trying to discredit Butch Davis at this point can not be taken seriously....

LMFAO. Says the guy who's logic is epitomized by your prediction last week that we'd "beat UNC because we beat them last year." Or the guy who said he'd take Chud over Patterson. Or the guy who was optimistic about beating Clemson because their d-line isn't all that. Or the guy who thought we'd win 10+ after four years of prior shet. Or the guy who supported Al Golden until you were the last supporter left. So should we take you seriously?

 

[deleted3746]

UNC gets their first 10+ win season since the Mack Brown era and are headed to the ACC CG.

Did Butch Davis Da Gawd do any of that?

 

[duke4heisman]

UNC gets their first 10+ win season since the Mack Brown era and are headed to the ACC CG.

Did Butch Davis Da Gawd do any of that?

LOL, just won on a no catch in OT against flubberneck. With a d2 schedule and lost to South Carolina, who just got beat by Citadel. GTFO

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

UNC gets their first 10+ win season since the Mack Brown era and are headed to the ACC CG.

Did Butch Davis Da Gawd do any of that?

Jimmy Johnson's best season at Oklahoma State: 8-4 with a win in the Bluebonnet Bowl.

Pat Jones went 10-2 with wins in the Gator, Sun, and Holiday Bowls in three of the next five years.

Clearly, Pat Jones was the better coach.

 

[canedoit]

Fedora was smart to snag Cutcliffes offense.

 

[theu852]

Some of our fans are so delusional its jaw dropping

 

[canedoit]

Fedora was smart to snag a quality DC.

 

[stormbrewing]

A lot of the hate towards Golden started when he refused to make a change at the DC....