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Looking ahead

JHallCanes said:
Eh. There was nothing wrong with Cager. Our fan base is always just looking for someone to take 15 years of frustration out on.

People **** on Braxton Berrios for years around here
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Because we completely misused him until his senior year.

Got Wes Welker Jr playing on the outside.

Only at Miami.
 
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DMoney said:
Yes, by a wide margin.

That's based on recruiting rankings coming in and NFL potential coming out.
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Forget recruiting rankings, since bad evals can distort them. That’s kind of the point, and hence the issue. Who on our team projects as a top 2 round pick? Tell us who the future nfl players are. I’m excluding true frosh, as we din’t know.
 
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dk72 said:
But the point is Cager was essentially the same player for Georgia that he was for us. A decent receiver. Not a star. Not a game breaker. The idea that he went to Georgia after failing here, and then became a top player, simply isn't true.
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He was a better player for Georgia in pretty much every regard. Better stats in fewer games while also playing injured in a few games.
 
@brock You're referring to Robert "Wine Glass" Burns, Cam (who is pretty good) and 2 freshmen who have never taken a snap in CFB.
 
WR Cane said:
@brock You're referring to Robert "Wine Glass" Burns, Cam (who is pretty good) and 2 freshmen who have never taken a snap in CFB.
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Yes, what does everyone else have ? Travis etienne gone, Aj Dillon gone, cam Akers gone. Clemson will have to rely on freshman bowman a lot next year who is just as unproven as our 2 freshman rbs AND smaller
 
Cager is simple. Who you going to look better with? Malik Rosier and our OL or Jake Fromm and there's? We talk about our misses at WR over the years (Cooper, Ridley, Jeudy) but those guys' stats would likely be meager here compared to what they produced at Bama.
 
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brock said:
Yes, what does everyone else have ? Travis etienne gone, Aj Dillon gone, cam Akers gone. Clemson will have to rely on freshman bowman a lot next year who is just as unproven as our 2 freshman rbs AND smaller
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Had Lo and DJ stayed I would agree, but Burns is a JAG, Cam is good (not great) and I haven't seen many freshmen since Dalvin and Akers do much their first year. Besides our OL is bound to get one of the 2 hurt and knowing Manure he will try to redshirt one of the 2 fresh.
 
TruCane81 said:
Baby steps, Ethnic.

Let’s beat the Dukes and UNC’s of the world.

I don’t like using the NFL as a barometer of talent. If it was, why are Bama guys not completely dominating the league like our guys did in the 2000s?

Why does Clemson dominate the line of scrimmage, but never gets those guys drafted?

We do need to evaluate better without a doubt. We allow way too many productive players get away to non big bag schools.

But Richt and Enos were HORRID offensive coordinators for us. It was like firing No D then making a big announcement that you hired, wait for it........ No D.

The coaching on the sideline is our biggest problem. We watch other teams play and they look better, so we think our guys are trash. But if our guys played for those teams, they wouldn’t look like they do here.

Caged and Martell are prime examples of this.
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Oh, our coaching blows, no disagreement. I’m not contending that manny could succeed with a better roster. I’m just focusing on talent, because it matters, a lot. And not just measurables. Mindset, attitude.

One thing people here may have deluded themselves into ignoring is that we will ALWAYS have worse infrastructure than other big programs. And that includes support staff, trainers, S&C, nutritionists, analysts, etc. As a result, we need superior talent, not just comparable talent, to prevail. We used to have it. We clearly don’t any more.

Also, culture is our only response to infrastructure ... if we get it right. We haven’t. Much of that is on the staff, but it’s also a function of the kids in the room. Are we focusing on enough of the right type of kids?

People mock Clemson for having no OL who go to the nfl. I’d say that shows they’re focusing on other traits. Properly, judging by results.

Let’s stop talking about stars as if they prove our talent, when our evals have been poor.

And let’s stop pointing at a few marginal nfl kids as if they prove our talent, when our roster has been a disaster for a decade. Thin, incomplete, young, inexperienced, unbalanced, weak on the lines too often, bad QB, etc.
 
AlexCane said:
Cager is simple. Who you going to look better with? Malik Rosier and our OL or Jake Fromm and there's? We talk about our misses at WR over the years (Cooper, Ridley, Jeudy) but those guys' stats would likely be meager here compared to what they produced at Bama.
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It’s both. Cooper, Ridely and Jeudy are top NFL kids. We haven’t had a guy like that in a long time.
 
Artist Formerly Known As said:
He was a better player for Georgia in pretty much every regard. Better stats in fewer games while also playing injured in a few games.
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No, he wasn't. I posted the stats. He had 2 fewer TDs, and averaged almost 3 yds/catch less in 2019 than in 2018. Sure, he had more catches and yards, but that's because he was their #1 receiver, while he was lower on our depth chart. ****, Dee Wiggins stats this year were not that far off Cager's. Osborn had more yards than Cager.

Cager was with us, and was for Georgia, a decent, serviceable receiver, nothing more. Not deserving of the hate when he was with us, but also not deserving of the false narrative that he turned into some sort of star for Georgia.
 
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dk72 said:
No, he wasn't. I posted the stats. He had 2 fewer TDs, and averaged almost 3 yds/catch less in 2019 than in 2018. Sure, he had more catches and yards, but that's because he was their #1 receiver, while he was lower on our depth chart. ****, Dee Wiggins stats this year were not that far off Cager's. Osborn had more yards than Cager.

Cager was with us, and was for Georgia, a decent, serviceable receiver, nothing more. Not deserving of the hate when he was with us, but also not deserving of the false narrative that he turned into some sort of star for Georgia.
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Spot on.
 
Ethnicsands said:
It’s both. Cooper, Ridely and Jeudy are top NFL kids. We haven’t had a guy like that in a long time.
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Well say it’s both then in your posts and quit trying to act like Miami is so devoid of talent, when fact of the matter is scheme absolutely matters and if some of our skill players where in other offenses around the country they would have been productive. So for me that’s not an indictment on their talent but it is however an indictment how bad the coaching is and scheme they have been confined in. Take tutu atwell for an example, would he have the stats he had at Louisville if he came to Miami? Easy answer, no because their offense is a true spred, plays with tempo and is a wide open offense. Place mark pope in that offense at Louisville and I guarantee he would eat. Again, get the right offense in at Miami and wouldn’t be even talking about this.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Here’s a contrast: the 2001 roster:

D:
-Guys with legit pro potential: Rolle, Reed, Buchanon, Rumph, S. Taylor, Vilma, DJ, Wm. Joseph, Chris Campbell, Wilfork, McIntosh, Jennings, McDougle
-Guys with pro ability ‘if they put it together’: Geathers, L. Williams, O. Harris
-Guys with marginal pro potential: McClover, Clark, A. Marshall, Maxey, S. Thomas, C. Walker, Weaver twins
-Guys: Sikes, J. Green, Walters, A. Williams, Square, Carroll, C. Green

O:
-Guys with legit pro potential: Portis, Willis, Gore, Najeh, Shockey, KWII, A. Johnson, Carey, McKinnie, Myers, Parrish
-Guys with pro ability ‘if they put it together’:
-Guys with marginal pro potential: Dorsey, Payton, Bibla, Romberg, Gonzalez, E. Sands, Butler, D. Jones, Q. Hill
-Guys: Sherko, Beard, Cobia, C. Joseph
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What's the point of comparing our 6-7 roster to the best roster in CFB history? It really doesn't prove anythign or offer any insight that we don't know. We're far miles and miles and miles away from being that.
 
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brock said:
No one in the acc will have a more gifted backfield than Miami next year, that includes even with them landing bowman
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We have cam, burns and two kids who aren’t even enrolled yet. They have guys on their roster too.

Bowman is ranked higher than either of our recruits, moreover. And their second back in the class is ranked equal to knighton on rivals.

Also, Hawkins (Louisville) is back. dillon is, i think. we havea couple good prospects and a very thin returning group. Being realistic.
 
brock said:
Well say it’s both then in your posts and quit trying to act like Miami is so devoid of talent, when fact of the matter is scheme absolutely matters and if some of our skill players where in other offenses around the country they would have been productive. So for me that’s not an indictment on their talent but it is however an indictment how bad the coaching is and scheme they have been confined in. Take tutu atwell for an example, would he have the stats he had at Louisville if he came to Miami? Easy answer, no because their offense is a true spred, plays with tempo and is a wide open offense. Place mark pope in that offense at Louisville and I guarantee he would eat. Again, get the right offense in at Miami and wouldn’t be even talking about this.
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You should learn to read, reflect and think better. I have consistently said it’s ‘all of the above’ over and over around here, for years. The idea I am saying it’s just talent is insane. I have been down on our coaching far more than you for most of the time you’ve followed this team.
 
AllAboutTheU said:
What's the point of comparing our 6-7 roster to the best roster in CFB history? It really doesn't prove anythign or offer any insight that we don't know. We're far miles and miles and miles away from being that.
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Sometimes a jarring juxtaposition can highlight a point clearly.

The point is obvious. We ain’t in Kansas anymore, our roster ain’t what people think, and increasingly, it’s less than the sum of its ‘stars,’ because evaluations matter.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Forget recruiting rankings, since bad evals can distort them. That’s kind of the point, and hence the issue. Who on our team projects as a top 2 round pick? Tell us who the future nfl players are. I’m excluding true frosh, as we din’t know.
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People have been making this thread for 15 years. And 15 years later, we are still Top 3 in current NFL players. Very few of those guys were branded as studs at Miami. Most were considered JAGs or underachievers.

To answer your specific question, Rousseau and Jordan are All-American caliber players. Both have a legit claim as the best in the nation at their respective positions. That's a good place to start and a luxury most teams don't have.

Beyond that (and looking only at upperclassmen), I would say Blades, Bolden, Hall, Harris, Mallory, Hedley and Scaife all have shown NFL tools. The DTs have a chance, and Phillips is a wild card. They need to do more, obviously, but they have time. None would project as Top 2 rounders right now. The young players are unknowns.

Does that stack up with Alabama or the 2001 Canes? Of course not. But the Coastal is a wasteland. These teams aren't producing even marginal NFL players at any kind of volume. Playing to our current talent level (Top 15 range) will allow us to win the Coastal consistently and recruit to the next talent level. But that would require improved performance from our head coach, our playcaller and our QB.
 
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