Interesting Take On Garvin

[Handsome Squidbum]

Starts with the HC.

That's part of it. But the other part is better diligence in recruiting. Dont bring in players that have a reputation for laziness. Saban, Swinney, and Urban Meyer might run tight ships, but they also don't tend to bring in players that lack fire. I don't think they could give two ****s about high character guys. Meyers teams were filled with criminals, but they tended to be hyper competitive. They once had a Tight End that would literally shoot you in the face with a gun if he felt disrespected.

There is some overlap between a "hard worker" and a hyper competitive person but they arent always the same thing. A gym rat is good, but does the idea of losing sicken him? If the team is losing, do you see smiles on the sidelines? I dont doubt that Richt and Diaz generally looked for "hard workers" and high character kids. But not all of those players are innately hypercompetitive to the point that they don't really need a coach "motivating" them.

 

[Skip Cane]

Comprehension 101. Example. Clemson won their initial NC over the last 10 years with a class ranking between 10-12 on an average. They had JAGS everywhere on defense. Guys like Harvin would indeed be able to play for them during that time, and they would indeed get their asses in line. Because Swinney wouldn’t tolerate 50%.

You reaching to use one player as an example doesn’t change the facts.

I agree with you 100%. Miami needs a hard *** to keep this program in check. Just look at a Howard, Jimmy, and Butch. Major high standards with tough coaching staffs. Erickson’s softness is what started getting us in trouble in the first place years ago. Kids need to fear and respect there coaches.

 

[DTP]

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding.

So going back to my man @DTP when asked the question of player development, how are other programs different than ours; what's the magic formula? Our player development sucks b/c kids who are dogging it are getting the green light, which is setting a bad precedence for the up and coming pups, that they, too, can half *** it, rely upon what they did in HS, and be rewarded. Bull chit.

We hear this type of chit all the time, AFTER THE FACT. So we just harped all over JT4 in another thread, and I made the point Manny has been here for four years now, so why beg JT4 to come back if he had all these "issues" and was a locker room problem? Well, Manny has been Garvin's coach his ENTIRE CAREER; so if he's that lazy, does things his way and can be hard to coach, WTF IS HE STARTING?
***Quick off topic but related: Maybe that's why BH left b/c he stays, pays his dues, we beg a kid to come back that quit the team, and said kid gets the starting job.

Why is this chit still happening? Why are players rewarded for half-assed efforts?

So we can hear these reports and be like "See?? I told you Garvin was dogging it!" OK, shame on him. BUT SHAME ON THIS STAFF for continuing to allow knuckleheads run the asylum! Like the season was already fck'd anyway; play the pups that actually are coach able, mold-able, and are excited to put on the uniform and build for next year. Stop coddling a septic trend!

Garvin was their best DE in 2018. No reason to expect him to slack in 2019. Still he was in the rotation because half of Garvin was better than all of Patchan. Still it was the catch 22 of the entire season. After the fact we heard about all these “cancers” who still got burn. But let’s ask a question. If you’re Manny, do you play all these guys and have a chance or bench them all and go 2-10? It’s easy to say “You have to set an example “ but when we were about to lose to Pitt and he put in Jarren who won us the game, it’s another story. Now, was Garvin slacking due to the coaches not “developing” him? Or was it his own attitude? Because there was another DE who was being “developed “ by the exact same coaches who finished second in the nation in sacks on the other side of the line. Now, @The Franchise made an interesting point the other day that maybe our evaluations are failing because we should be targeting guys who we are certain will put in the extra work. Now, that might be true. Maybe Garvin was a guy we shouldn’t have signed in the first place but I don’t know if The coaches could have predicted him blowing up as a sophomore and then totally coasting as a junior. But...that’s what they’re paid to do and it’s why they make big money and I’m just some guy online.

 

[Rellyrell]

That's a fact.

When our players fúck up on the field, they don't get benched, they don't even get reprimanded, they're just allowed to play as much as they want.

It's why I wish we would've brought in a JUCO Corner in the 2020 class or landed a Grad Transfer CB this offseason, to let Ivey know that his job is not secure & if his play doesn't improve he's not guaranteed a starter spot. I don't think the staff will ever bench Ivey for one of the younger guys behind him even if they're better, for whatever reason they just want him to play so they can use it as a bargaining chip in recruiting.

Playing Time is the ultimate equalizer of discipline. Doesn't matter how strict or laid back you are as a coach, the only thing players respond to is when you take away PT.

For all the talk about culture & recruiting better character guys, what never gets discussed is how serious are the coaches about instilling discipline? Are they willing to take PT away from guys, or will they just give a bunch of lip service & let the same guys keep making mistakes & getting away with it?

El, this entire chit has just been talk. The culture change, holding players accountable, making our commitments mean something.....it's all lip service and I said it once and I'll say it again, you NEVER HIRE A COACH FROM A FAILED REGIME. Manny is nothing more than a guy who's a great bull chitter that worked his way from a media room at ESPN to the sidelines and continues to promote himself. The culture says otherwise, though. No way Garvin is playing for Dabo, Meyers, Day, Rhule, Saban, Carroll, or even BUTCH with a **** *** attitude.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

I agree with you 100%. Miami needs a hard *** to keep this program in check. Just look at a Howard, Jimmy, and Butch. Major high standards with tough coaching staffs. Erickson’s softness is what started getting us in trouble in the first place years ago. Kids need to fear and respect there coaches.

Yet Mr. Softee won more national championships than those other guys. You are buying into the ridiculous myth of the drill instructor coach turning boys into men. You really think Urban Meyer was Gunnery Sergeant Hartman reborn?

 

[KrazyCane]

Garvin was their best DE in 2018. No reason to expect him to slack in 2019.

No Joe Jackson was the best DE, Garvin can only get u 5 sacks a season, he wasn’t as impactful as Joe. Even the majority of the tackle for losses he racked came from pressure that Joe and Willis created.

 

[Torocane]

That's part of it. But the other part is better diligence in recruiting. Dont bring in players that have a reputation for laziness. Saban, Swinney, and Urban Meyer might run tight ships, but they also don't tend to bring in players that lack fire. I don't think they could give two ****s about high character guys. Meyers teams were filled with criminals, but they tended to be hyper competitive. They once had a Tight End that would literally shoot you in the face with a gun if he felt disrespected.

There is some overlap between a "hard worker" and a hyper competitive person but they arent always the same thing. A gym rat is good, but does the idea of losing sicken him? If the team is losing, do you see smiles on the sidelines? I dont doubt that Richt and Diaz generally looked for "hard workers" and high character kids. But not all of those players are innately hypercompetitive to the point that they don't really need a coach "motivating" them.

People that are hyper competitive. People that can't stand losing tend to do anything and everything possible to win. Meaning the will put in the work necessary to keep getting better.
People that are not hyper competitive tend to be complacent. IMO

 

[Rellyrell]

Garvin was their best DE in 2018. No reason to expect him to slack in 2019. Still he was in the rotation because half of Garvin was better than all of Patchan. Still it was the catch 22 of the entire season. After the fact we heard about all these “cancers” who still got burn. But let’s ask a question. If you’re Manny, do you play all these guys and have a chance or bench them all and go 2-10? It’s easy to say “You have to set an example “ but when we were about to lose to Pitt and he put in Jarren who won us the game, it’s another story. Now, was Garvin slacking due to the coaches not “developing” him? Or was it his own attitude? Because there was another DE who was being “developed “ by the exact same coaches who finished second in the nation in sacks on the other side of the line. Now, @The Franchise made an interesting point the other day that maybe our evaluations are failing because we should be targeting guys who we are certain will put in the extra work. Now, that might be true. Maybe Garvin was a guy we shouldn’t have signed in the first place but I don’t know if The coaches could have predicted him blowing up as a sophomore and then totally coasting as a junior. But...that’s what they’re paid to do and it’s why they make big money and I’m just some guy online.

1. Garvin was not our best DE in 2018, that was by far Joe Jackson

2. The season was already fck'd. Play the kids who put in the work, not a guy who felt it was his right of passage b/c he's a Jr.

3. I said player development also includes allowing guys who are half-assing it be the starters b/c it sets a bad precedence for the young pups. Where did I say chit about coaches developing Garvin? If Garvin is dog chit, then he shouldn't be starting and in turn that sends a message to onlookers to get their chit together. Accountability is large part of anyone's development.

4. He didn't blow up his sophomore year! He went from registering 5 sacks in spot duty as a freshman, to 5.5 sacks as a starting sophomore.

You've yet to address the fact that Manny has had close interactions w/ this kid, he ran the practices, but now all of a sudden we hear these reports about how lazy he was? Get that bull chit out of my face. You can skate and tap dance the excuse as to why our players continue to under perform at an unreal rate, but if a kid is lazy and is rewarded, why would he be better in life?

 

[DTP]

Yet Mr. Softee won more national championships than those other guys. You are buying into the ridiculous myth of the drill instructor coach turning boys into men. You really think Urban Meyer was Gunnery Sergeant Hartman reborn?

Exactly. It’s much easier to bench guys when you’re deep at every position and there’s not a huge drop off from first to second string. It’s much tougher to play disciplinarian when your statement might mean a loss.

 

[MichiCANE]

Can somebody go into detail what made him lazy and uncoachable? Seems like people talk about it but don’t mention why

 

[DTP]

1. Garvin was not our best DE in 2018, that was by far Joe Jackson

2. The season was already fck'd. Play the kids who put in the work, not a guy who felt it was his right of passage b/c he's a Jr.

3. I said player development also includes allowing guys who are half-assing it be the starters b/c it sets a bad precedence for the young pups. Where did I say chit about coaches developing Garvin? If Garvin is dog chit, then he shouldn't be starting and in turn that sends a message to onlookers to get their chit together. Accountability is large part of anyone's development.

4. He didn't blow up his sophomore year! He went from registering 5 sacks in spot duty as a freshman, to 5.5 sacks as a starting sophomore.

You've yet to address the fact that Manny has had close interactions w/ this kid, he ran the practices, but now all of a sudden we hear these reports about how lazy he was? Get that bull chit out of my face. You can skate and tap dance the excuse as to why our players continue to under perform at an unreal rate, but if a kid is lazy and is rewarded, why would he be better in life?

This is all easy for you to say now. The season is over and it was a failure. If Manny has benched Garvin and they lost because of it, you’d be in here screaming that we need to play our best players.

 

[DTP]

Can somebody go into detail what made him lazy and uncoachable? Seems like people talk about it but don’t mention why

Nobody can. Anonymous scout quotes. Every year we hear this same story about a guy who underachieved. There’s always an excuse after the fact.

Besides, regardless of whether he underachieved or not, there was not a single game where I said “****, if Jon Garvin would have played better, we would have won that game”. Garvin being lazy was really far down on my list of why they sucked last year.

 

[orange&green84]

Your not at all understanding what I was originally saying lol..but okay..I’ll say this tho Manny has had a player drafted at every position group of his defense and a player drafted in each of his years here..I think our fans just overrate are talent year in and year..ppl here swore Joe jack, and garvin were top of the draft talents..I just sit back and shake my head at times

You can say that recruiting sites like Rivals, ESPN, and 247 aren't perfect in their evals. But constantly, we outrecruit schools in our own division. But, those schools are doing more with less and their results are showing. It's a culture thing long with a lack of development.

 

[Rellyrell]

This is all easy for you to say now. The season is over and it was a failure. If Manny has benched Garvin and they lost because of it, you’d be in here screaming that we need to play our best players.

Of course it's easy for me to say now b/c the report just came out!! lol

And actually, during Richt's last year in 2017, I said "F it....if the older guys don't want to perform, put the pups in, and let's build for next year." It's the same thing I complained about when GR15 kept getting these rave reviews and Patchan was starting over him and I said what's there to lose? Put Greg in and see what he can do. I don't see things in black and white or Orange and Green. The fact is this culture needs to change. That's our biggest development issue.

 

[DTP]

Coaches get 20 hours a week to be around players during the season. They get 8 hours a week during the off season. Maybe we need to target guys who don’t need to be baby sat because the NCAA will not allow the staff to be around a kid more than a few hours a day.

 

[stormsurge13]

This site is funny. If manny would of benched garvin and played a lesser player, their would be even more air plane banner talk even though we don't have the inside info.

Kind of like how we had one of the best defensive players in football coming off the bench for the first 5 games. Garvin’s play picked up after Rousseau moved into the starting lineup, but certainly for a guy with day 1 talk coming into the season it was a disappointment

 

[HurricaneHauk]

This place doesn't know what it wants

"don't recruit guys who don't want to win, can't win with them!"

Recruits Flagg who played at a powerhouse Texas school and put up numbers

"Flagg sucks, lol he slow!"

 

[UMFarArcher]

I wonder if he played for Saban or Swinney would they say the same thing? I doubt it.

Butch Davis was the last coach we had that would not put up with any of that crap.

And the last coach who knew what in **** he was shooting for.

 

[sdaly12]

These kids should know, even if they are playing for a losing team the nfl is always watching. There is always something to play for.

tape don't lie, Garvin was/is a dog with flea's

 

[sdaly12]

Butch Davis was the last coach we had that would not put up with any of that crap.

And the last coach who knew what in **** he was shooting for.

CMD has a shot because Blake keeps making schedule easier..... saves both their jobs