Interesting Take On Garvin

[jw410]

That's a fact.

When our players fúck up on the field, they don't get benched, they don't even get reprimanded, they're just allowed to play as much as they want.

It's why I wish we would've brought in a JUCO Corner in the 2020 class or landed a Grad Transfer CB this offseason, to let Ivey know that his job is not secure & if his play doesn't improve he's not guaranteed a starter spot. I don't think the staff will ever bench Ivey for one of the younger guys behind him even if they're better, for whatever reason they just want him to play so they can use it as a bargaining chip in recruiting.

Playing Time is the ultimate equalizer of discipline. Doesn't matter how strict or laid back you are as a coach, the only thing players respond to is when you take away PT.

For all the talk about culture & recruiting better character guys, what never gets discussed is how serious are the coaches about instilling discipline? Are they willing to take PT away from guys, or will they just give a bunch of lip service & let the same guys keep making mistakes & getting away with it?

I thought of Ivey too! No way that muthafukka plays for me again if I'm Rumph. Letting the wr run past him he doesn't deserve that U on his helmet period. Dude is a flat out bum.

 

[OldhamA]

1. Garvin was not our best DE in 2018, that was by far Joe Jackson

2. The season was already fck'd. Play the kids who put in the work, not a guy who felt it was his right of passage b/c he's a Jr.

3. I said player development also includes allowing guys who are half-assing it be the starters b/c it sets a bad precedence for the young pups. Where did I say chit about coaches developing Garvin? If Garvin is dog chit, then he shouldn't be starting and in turn that sends a message to onlookers to get their chit together. Accountability is large part of anyone's development.

4. He didn't blow up his sophomore year! He went from registering 5 sacks in spot duty as a freshman, to 5.5 sacks as a starting sophomore.

You've yet to address the fact that Manny has had close interactions w/ this kid, he ran the practices, but now all of a sudden we hear these reports about how lazy he was? Get that bull chit out of my face. You can skate and tap dance the excuse as to why our players continue to under perform at an unreal rate, but if a kid is lazy and is rewarded, why would he be better in life?

We've read this about a couple of players now - Jarren, Thomas, Garvin - how the coaching staff is quietly pleased they've left because they were bad for the culture.

Strikes me as weak leadership as YOU set the culture as the coaching staff. Thomas shouldn't have been invited back, we should have helped Jarren carry his perennially half-packed suitcase to the curb and Garvin should have been benched for poor effort.

Diaz clearly hasn't learned and, at this point, I doubt he will.

 

[OldhamA]

Can somebody go into detail what made him lazy and uncoachable? Seems like people talk about it but don’t mention why

We don't need to go into detail, just watch the games. His lack of hustle stands out like a sore thumb. For a guy that talented and athletic, his impact on games is laughable.

Athletically he grades out similarly to Yetur Gross-Matos, the DE the Panthers took at the start of the 2nd round. The fact that Garvin lasted until the end of the 7th round, at a premium position, and was drafted PURELY because he's an NFL calibre athlete proves that the NFL knows he's lazy (unless he has a super secret rape charge on the books).

 

[OldhamA]

**** yeah, they would be furious.

As fans we have to understand that we don't know what goes on behind closed doors or at practice.

Most of us just want to see a plan. If players like Garvin / Thomas / Ivey were benched for doggin' it on the field, we'd all understand why. More importantly, their teammates would understand why.

Unfortunately for Diaz, he doesn't have the credit in the bank to bench said players and not be called out by fans. Either he shuts out the fans and tries to establish his own culture at Miami (one that Reed harps on about - and fingers crossed that role helps develop it), or he's out on his **** in 2 years.

We can't continue this cycle of bringing in talented players (albeit not the elite of SoFl) and watching them coast through 3 / 4 years at the U, thinking they're entitled to an NFL career. It's why players never get better here and it's why we've been ****e for 15 years.

 

[DTP]

again that’s not what I’m sayin. I agree. We have to recruit better (mainly along the LOS). My point is every year we pick out 3 or 4 to harp on and say they never developed. Last year it was JT4, Lingard and BT..3 of those quit for whatever reason..next year it will be 3 different cats I’m sure of that.

Thing is this tho, like I said we overrate our talent especially at the most important positions where games are one at , the LOS. y’all thought garbing and Jackson were too of the draft talents base on their first season lol. We have to recruit better on that front and develop better on that front no doubt. Our skill talent will always be good..now for the past 4-5 years we been clamoring that a spread offense will fix the issues up front, we’ll see how right about that ppl were...now to your point of temple/uva and other developing guys better..

if your basing this on the draft results for past couple years, that’s simply not true , Temple had what 5 kids this year which great And extraordinary for them the last 3 years they’ve had 2 each in each of the last 3 drafts..UVA had like 3 this draft (their star Bryce wasn’t) and 2 in 19 then 2 in 18 and none in 17.. kids..this year we had 5 I believe..9 in 17, 6 in 18 and 5 in 19

now here’s something that’s crazy OU who has had much more successes on the field then us, this year they had 3 kids drafted, 19 they had 8, 18 they had 4 17 they had 4..reason I point out OU is because they recruit very similar, slightly better, but similar to us in the rankings but nobody would say with a straight face OU not developing their guys because of on field success..yet their draft results are eerily similar to us..key differences are their development on the LOS and the QB talent and play they get. Those are the two most important positions and they are alway fine there. We fix those things and see on field team success I promise you won’t here the yearly 3 to for guys ppl have full season debates about getting a raw deal, not being developed, and in the dog house.

The biggest difference between Miami and Oklahoma is that Oklahoma has been serious about being on the cutting edge of offense while we’re lining up in the Coker T. They are not head and shoulders more talented. They have been great at QB where they seem to plug in a transfer every year and not miss a beat. That’s because their coach runs a QB friendly offense and can tailor it to fit what his guy does best. They’ve put a couple of high end receivers in the league recently because guys want to go where they’ll get a ton of passes thrown to them and put up huge numbers. After that, it’s not like they’re killing it with draft picks. Have they had an O lineman go in the first two days recently? Any defensive player? OU has managed to be a top 5 team nationally yet they only get a few guys drafted every year. Nobody ever says they’re it developing their talent. They’re just better at using what they get than we are.

 

[Skip Cane]

Guys like Garvin are killing are program. Fact!!!

 

[Skip Cane]

It’s a mentality and it’s been lost at Miami. I’m an old fart that’s been around along time and guidance and strict structure is the way to the top in anything.

 

[motorcitycane]

Even when your team sucks give max effort. Yeah football is a team sport but you still gotta win your one on ones.

There’s no way I’m comfortable with allowing another grownass man to line opposite of me, in a violent sport, and whoop my a$$.

gotta okay for your own pride as well. That’ll jump off on screen and get you drafted.

 

[CanesFam17]

it's coaching.. our coach isn't a great leader.. we saw it last year...there is not more to see.. the case is closed...his team didn't fight for him.. guys quit on him over and over...just hope that this is his last year and we can find the right coach going forward

 

[SinisterCane]

Just another example of the failed leadership from Mandy, players are half-assin’ it and still PLAY

 

[KrazyCane]

it's coaching.. our coach isn't a great leader.. we saw it last year...there is not more to see.. the case is closed...his team didn't fight for him.. guys quit on him over and over...just hope that this is his last year and we can find the right coach going forward

After Manny figures our how to lose 7 games with Lashlees offense and King at QB he’ll be fired. Once that happens we need to stop making the HC decision harder than it needs to be and just go get Butch Davis to dig this program out of its 12 foot grave that it’s in.

 

[SinisterCane]

I disagree because I'm a natural born leader and am constantly praised for my leadership skills. But I don't go about by being abrasive.

I think there's a difference between being honest and direct and being abrasive. I think you can be the former without being the latter. But everyone's different.

I’m not in a leadership position however I believe if you make a “example” public execution out of a players the rest will get the message.

You wouldn’t have to be constantly abrasive but the team would KNOW your capable of droppin’ the guillotine

 

[L A M P]

Wish him well but he won't be missed on my end.. not that he knows who I am. Lol

 

[canesbaby]

Found this on the Athletic from the Packer's draft review:

Jonathan Garvin:

He declared a year early. According to one scout, multiple contacts in the football program told him they were glad Garvin was leaving. The scout said Garvin’s effort level was downright embarrassing at times.

“He can be difficult to coach,” another scout said. “He does things his way. Does what he wants when things don’t go his way. … Only had five sacks.”

Other scouts said a seventh-round choice for Garvin was appropriate because of his size (6-4, 263), arm length (34) and 40 (4.81).

“He’s a left end (in a 4-3),” one said. “He’s not a great speed rusher. But when you get down there and you’ve got a guy this big and his vert (vertical jump of 36) and broad jump (10-4) numbers were really good, take a shot. There’s some upside to that pick. At that point, it just becomes, ‘Swing the bat.’ ”

Very accurate piece of the article. As a fan I would just laugh at his effort at times. Sad for a guy who showed so much in year 1 and 2. Hoping that didn't rub off on GR for this (hopefully) upcoming season.

 

[The Franchise]

That's part of it. But the other part is better diligence in recruiting. Dont bring in players that have a reputation for laziness. Saban, Swinney, and Urban Meyer might run tight ships, but they also don't tend to bring in players that lack fire. I don't think they could give two ****s about high character guys. Meyers teams were filled with criminals, but they tended to be hyper competitive. They once had a Tight End that would literally shoot you in the face with a gun if he felt disrespected.

There is some overlap between a "hard worker" and a hyper competitive person but they arent always the same thing. A gym rat is good, but does the idea of losing sicken him? If the team is losing, do you see smiles on the sidelines? I dont doubt that Richt and Diaz generally looked for "hard workers" and high character kids. But not all of those players are innately hypercompetitive to the point that they don't really need a coach "motivating" them.

He said, "It starts with the HC." The HC is also responsible for "better diligence in recruiting." So, it still starts with the HC.

Character, in the football world, means all of the stuff you listed--Hard work, competitive, etc.

 

[The Franchise]

Garvin was their best DE in 2018. No reason to expect him to slack in 2019. Still he was in the rotation because half of Garvin was better than all of Patchan. Still it was the catch 22 of the entire season. After the fact we heard about all these “cancers” who still got burn. But let’s ask a question. If you’re Manny, do you play all these guys and have a chance or bench them all and go 2-10? It’s easy to say “You have to set an example “ but when we were about to lose to Pitt and he put in Jarren who won us the game, it’s another story. Now, was Garvin slacking due to the coaches not “developing” him? Or was it his own attitude? Because there was another DE who was being “developed “ by the exact same coaches who finished second in the nation in sacks on the other side of the line. Now, @The Franchise made an interesting point the other day that maybe our evaluations are failing because we should be targeting guys who we are certain will put in the extra work. Now, that might be true. Maybe Garvin was a guy we shouldn’t have signed in the first place but I don’t know if The coaches could have predicted him blowing up as a sophomore and then totally coasting as a junior. But...that’s what they’re paid to do and it’s why they make big money and I’m just some guy online.

It's not just being able to predict that Garvin would coast in 2019. It's being able to keep his fire stoked so that he didn't feel like it was acceptable to coast. If he gave effort in 2018, there's no reason we shouldn't have been able to keep that effort level up.

 

[The Franchise]

Exactly. It’s much easier to bench guys when you’re deep at every position and there’s not a huge drop off from first to second string. It’s much tougher to play disciplinarian when your statement might mean a loss.

That's why you need some long vision to change a locker room. In the end, was it better to play Garvin and win 6 games? Or not play him and maybe win 5? Not sure with the effort he was giving that he was responsible for an extra win anyway.

The same diseased mindset that we allowed to infect the team proliferated into bowl season leading to an absolutely disgraceful end to the year. What was really gained by playing the loafers and pot heads?

 

[DTP]

That's why you need some long vision to change a locker room. In the end, was it better to play Garvin and win 6 games? Or not play him and maybe win 5? Not sure with the effort he was giving that he was responsible for an extra win anyway.

The same diseased mindset that we allowed to infect the team proliferated into bowl season leading to an absolutely disgraceful end to the year. What was really gained by playing the loafers and pot heads?

Hindsight is always 20/20. Right now, especially since the season was a wash, it makes total sense to have benched all the slackers and set an example. It would have been a tougher decision during the season when you're mindset is giving your team the best chance to win. People would have flipped their **** if Manny had benched a bunch of starters and the team went on to lose 10 games an not even go to a bowl. In the end, it probably would have been better to just rip that band-aid off and take it on the chin but they attempted to salvage a mediocre season. Regardless, it was a long-run mistake.

 

[305to954]

The biggest difference between Miami and Oklahoma is that Oklahoma has been serious about being on the cutting edge of offense while we’re lining up in the Coker T. They are not head and shoulders more talented. They have been great at QB where they seem to plug in a transfer every year and not miss a beat. That’s because their coach runs a QB friendly offense and can tailor it to fit what his guy does best. They’ve put a couple of high end receivers in the league recently because guys want to go where they’ll get a ton of passes thrown to them and put up huge numbers. After that, it’s not like they’re killing it with draft picks. Have they had an O lineman go in the first two days recently? Any defensive player? OU has managed to be a top 5 team nationally yet they only get a few guys drafted every year. Nobody ever says they’re it developing their talent. They’re just better at using what they get than we are.

I was responding to someone who referred to the draft to say we are lacking development. My point is for 1 we always overrate our kids. 2. We not recruiting on a elite enough level at the LOS to just think we can roll out and dominate week end week out. 3, if we were winning 10 games a year like OU that wouldn’t even be a mention

 

[The Franchise]

Hindsight is always 20/20. Right now, especially since the season was a wash, it makes total sense to have benched all the slackers and set an example. It would have been a tougher decision during the season when you're mindset is giving your team the best chance to win. People would have flipped their **** if Manny had benched a bunch of starters and the team went on to lose 10 games an not even go to a bowl. In the end, it probably would have been better to just rip that band-aid off and take it on the chin but they attempted to salvage a mediocre season. Regardless, it was a long-run mistake.

You can claim hindsight. But coaches would never get fired if they could just say, "Yeah, but hindsight is 20/20." By the way, it wasn't hindsight with me. I called Garvin out several times for lack of effort.