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The Mike Leach Fan club

Liberty City El said:
And people that push that "he would've killed it with 4/5-star Miami athletes" narrative. The major flaw in this thinking is that he would never get them.

Leach has never consistently got 4/5-star skill athletes, anywhere he's went. Michael Crabtree is the only high ranked WR he's ever landed & that was only because Mack Brown wanted him to play DB in college.

The assumption he would land all these high rated athletes in Miami is based on nothing. When has he ever shown himself to be an elite recruiter?

Idk why our fans assume guys who can't recruit at small schools are going to all of the sudden learn how to recruit once they get to Miami. Recruiting doesn't get easier at Miami, it gets significantly harder & if you don't have a track record of doing it in the pass, you can guarantee it ain't going to happen here.
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That's not really the argument though. The argument is he would get a better athlete in the Miami area than he's ever had. And that would be enough. Much like Art Briles. I have no idea if Art Briles would bring in nothing but 4* and 5* players at Miami. But I don't think it's going to matter much in terms of him winning 10 to 11 games a year.
There's no doubt Leach would have better recruiting at Miami than he had at TT or has at WSU. That can't really be debated. And he would get some 4* players just by virtue of it being Miami.
The only debate is how good do you think his South Florida recruiting classes need to be for him to kill it on the field?
 
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Liberty City El said:
That's the point, if he was as good as some think, how come no other major program has hired him in his career?
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Probably the same reason why Bud Foster has never been offered a coaching position, even though he is for sure one of the 5 best DCs in college football in my lifetime. Some personalities just have limitations to them. For Bud it's nothing above a coordinator job. For Leach its nothing above a middle of the road P5 job.
 
We live in a F'up world no doubt.....but usually when you find someone that hasn't moved up to the elite levels in his field if you dig deeper beyond just one or two sources , you'll find that there may be several good reasons why.

While I find his offenses entertaining, there are numerous reasons why taking on Mike Leach is a risky proposition for programs seeking to move beyond just being good. He doesn't help himself with his past player controversies.

Novelty offenses & defenses come and go. The ability to win a championship with novelty is rare indeed. You've got to be competitive on both sides of the ball. He's 6-7 in bowl games.

You've still got to be able to get quality personnel and depth. He's to date, consistently not been able to do that. Is it him or the location? VT, Auburn and numerous other schools located in difficult locations have no problems drawing quality recruits.

Cream always has a way of rising to the top despite running into obstacles & obstructions....maybe there's a reason to date his major positions have been in obscure, Lubbock and Pullman.........it just may be that Mike Leach isn't "cream"
 
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mossmadness said:
That's not really the argument though. The argument is he would get a better athlete in the Miami area than he's ever had. And that would be enough. Much like Art Briles. I have no idea if Art Briles would bring in nothing but 4* and 5* players at Miami. But I don't think it's going to matter much in terms of him winning 10 to 11 games a year.
There's no doubt Leach would have better recruiting at Miami than he had at TT or has at WSU. That can't really be debated. And he would get some 4* players just by virtue of it being Miami.
The only debate is how good do you think his South Florida recruiting classes need to be for him to kill it on the field?
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Based on what??? You assume he would, but what makes you think recruiting at Miami is so easy, when recruiting South Fla is literally the most difficult recruiting ground in the entire Nation.

Leach has never been an elite recruiter in his entire career, that means he would struggle even more at Miami, have you not seen how hard it is to recruit down here? **** even a great recruiter like Richt still has to fight battles on all fronts, South Fla is a War Zone in crootin & only the best can survive down here.

And this assumption he's going to win 10/11 games every year, again based on what??? What evidence do you have to support that? He got the breaks beat of'em multiple times last year, literal 30-40 point blowouts against teams that weren't even that good. Wtf makes you so confident he's going to steamroll teams in the ACC when the comp is that much harder? (Aside from being a blind fan of his)
 
mossmadness said:
Probably the same reason why Bud Foster has never been offered a coaching position, even though he is for sure one of the 5 best DCs in college football in my lifetime. Some personalities just have limitations to them. For Bud it's nothing above a coordinator job. For Leach its nothing above a middle of the road P5 job.
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If that's the case then how can assume he would've been a good coach at Miami winning 10/11 games a year lol?
 
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Liberty City El said:
And people that push that "he would've killed it with 4/5-star Miami athletes" narrative. The major flaw in this thinking is that he would never get them.

Leach has never consistently got 4/5-star skill athletes, anywhere he's went. Michael Crabtree is the only high ranked WR he's ever landed & that was only because Mack Brown wanted him to play DB in college.

The assumption he would land all these high rated athletes in Miami is based on nothing. When has he ever shown himself to be an elite recruiter?

Idk why our fans assume guys who can't recruit at small schools are going to all of the sudden learn how to recruit once they get to Miami. Recruiting doesn't get easier at Miami, it gets significantly harder & if you don't have a track record of doing it in the pass, you can guarantee it ain't going to happen here.
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Al Golden comes to mind.
 
We can't assume Leach would pull in a bunch of 4 star guys at Miami just because "it's Miami". First an foremost, you're immediately eliminating two of Miami's most productive positions RB and TE. Good luck convincing a Lorenzo Lingard to come to Miami to be a glorified 6th lineman. "Don't worry Lorenzo, you'll still get 7 or 8 carries a game if you stick around until your senior season. Just think of all the pass protecting experience you'll get though!" Or "well Brevin Jordan, we'd really like to have you on our team but our offense doesn't have a TE position so good luck at Bama or wherever you end up."

Secondly, when and where has Leach ever shown any type of interest or ability to recruit anything? He's openly admitted to not really caring much for recruiting. It's unlikely that he'd all of the sudden get the itch to deal with a bunch of south Florida diva recruits. At the highest levels of the sport the Jimmy's and Joe's are what make the difference. Nick Saban doesn't win titles every year because he has some revolutionary system that blows people away. He wins because he has the best players at every position.


I've said it before. Guys like Leach are perfect for Wazoo or Texas Tech. He'll generate interest, put butts in seats and win 8 games a year. He won't win any conference titles and he'll consistently get curb-stomped by the big boys but he can always use the "we're playing with a bunch of two star guys" excuse. He's a winning coach but not a championship coach.
 
mossmadness said:
The only debate is how good do you think his South Florida recruiting classes need to be for him to kill it on the field?
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That's not even a valid question. Given his coaching philosophy, it doesn't matter how much talent he has. He approaches a football program in a way that guarantees three losses regardless of talent level.
 
DTP said:
I've said it before. Guys like Leach are perfect for Wazoo or Texas Tech. He'll generate interest, put butts in seats and win 8 games a year. He won't win any conference titles and he'll consistently get curb-stomped by the big boys but he can always use the "we're playing with a bunch of two star guys" excuse. He's a winning coach but not a championship coach.
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That's exactly who he is. He runs a gimmick system that allows second-tier programs to get excited a few times a year.
 
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sfowler06 said:
Well, he has 2/3 star wash state athletes. I'm sure he would do more than fine with 4/5 star Miami athletes.
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Gimmick offenses are designed to confuse undisciplined and poorly coached defenses. These systems never work outside the Pac12 and Big12 because we actually try to play defense in the ACC, B1G, and SEC.
 
Liberty City El said:
And people that push that "he would've killed it with 4/5-star Miami athletes" narrative. The major flaw in this thinking is that he would never get them.

Leach has never consistently got 4/5-star skill athletes, anywhere he's went. Michael Crabtree is the only high ranked WR he's ever landed & that was only because Mack Brown wanted him to play DB in college.

The assumption he would land all these high rated athletes in Miami is based on nothing. When has he ever shown himself to be an elite recruiter?

Idk why our fans assume guys who can't recruit at small schools are going to all of the sudden learn how to recruit once they get to Miami. Recruiting doesn't get easier at Miami, it gets significantly harder & if you don't have a track record of doing it in the pass, you can guarantee it ain't going to happen here.
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You have a point. His dismissive attitude may not have ingratiated him to the recruits and families down here.
 
mossmadness said:
Probably the same reason why Bud Foster has never been offered a coaching position, even though he is for sure one of the 5 best DCs in college football in my lifetime. Some personalities just have limitations to them. For Bud it's nothing above a coordinator job. For Leach its nothing above a middle of the road P5 job.
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I used to work with a good friend of Foster (on same team at Murray State). Asked my co-worker why Foster didn't want to move up in the world to be a HC. Basically, as hard as it may be to believe, Foster simply doesn't want to leave Blacksburg or be a head coach. He makes enough money to live very comfortably. He's not limited by personality (which I assume you mean that he wouldn't be able to recruit on a high level), he is one of those rare people who is truly happy with where he is and his level of responsibility.

Mike Leach on the other hand, is well known to be a weirdo. You think he'd be able to walk into some kid's apartment in the Pork & Beans dressed like a pirate wearing rollerblades and convince a parent that his/her kid should play for Miami?
 
Liberty City El said:
Based on what??? You assume he would, but what makes you think recruiting at Miami is so easy, when recruiting South Fla is literally the most difficult recruiting ground in the entire Nation.

Leach has never been an elite recruiter in his entire career, that means he would struggle even more at Miami, have you not seen how hard it is to recruit down here? **** even a great recruiter like Richt still has to fight battles on all fronts, South Fla is a War Zone in crootin & only the best can survive down here.

And this assumption he's going to win 10/11 games every year, again based on what??? What evidence do you have to support that? He got the breaks beat of'em multiple times last year, literal 30-40 point blowouts against teams that weren't even that good. Wtf makes you so confident he's going to steamroll teams in the ACC when the comp is that much harder? (Aside from being a blind fan of his)
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It's not hard to recruit down here. It's hard to bring in elite classes. But the idea that it's hard to recruit in Miami than it is the state of Washington is just silly. There is a recruiting floor here that's higher than most areas.
The assumption is based on how his offenses usually fair with average talent, v. what he would be working with against the rest of the ACC Coastal. If you think Duke or Pitt or UVA would stop a Miami Mike Leach offense, that's just being a "bland" critic of his.
 
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Loose Cannon said:
Gimmick offenses are designed to confuse undisciplined and poorly coached defenses. These systems never work outside the Pac12 and Big12 because we actually try to play defense in the ACC, B1G, and SEC.
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OU certainly had trouble scoring on Ohio State and UGA.
 
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mossmadness said:
OU certainly had trouble scoring on Ohio State and UGA.
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:2h3mpi1:

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mossmadness said:
It's not hard to recruit down here. It's hard to bring in elite classes. But the idea that it's hard to recruit in Miami than it is the state of Washington is just silly. There is a recruiting floor here that's higher than most areas.
The assumption is based on how his offenses usually fair with average talent, v. what he would be working with against the rest of the ACC Coastal. If you think Duke or Pitt or UVA would stop a Miami Mike Leach offense, that's just being a "bland" critic of his.
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Last year he lost to Cal by 34 points, giving up 7 turnovers (5INT's & 2FF's) & 9 sacks. That was CAL not some powerhouse.

Vs Arizona they lost by 21 points, giving up 58 total, off 6 turnovers (4INT's 2FF's). They also gave up 310yds rushing while only rushing for 44yds themselves.

Vs Washington they gave up 328yds rushing & 4 turnovers (3INT's 1FF) & 5 sacks.

He doesn't run the ball & doesn't concern himself with Defense in the least bit, plus leaves his QB extremely vulnerable to getting beat up & throwing picks all over the field.

Obviously, there is far more talent in Florida than in Washington but the what you keep glossing over is that the talented kids in Florida wouldn't want to play for him, they would look at him as a joke. Recruiting in South Fla is not easy by any standard, there's a reason why the 3 coached we've had before Richt & after Butch struggled so bad at it because they completely underestimated the politics that comes with it.

You seem to think he would get kids because he would win a lot games & they would come anyway, that's the flaw, he's not going to win the games you assume he would & there's a track record of him doing that. You're basically arguing he would be a great Offensive Coordinator for Miami, but HC encompasses far more than throwing the ball 60 times a game.
 
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