The Mike Leach Fan club

[Handsome Squidbum]

Yeah, I wouldn't call the Air Raid that Lincoln Riley learned from Mike Leach, gimmicky either.

Air Raid, RPO, power I, doesn't matter. You can win in all systems if it's well executed and you have superior athletes. Lincoln Riley could win a NC at Miami because he runs a good offense and can recruit. Leach would not because he just wouldn't land elite talent, and he has zero connections to S FL high school recruiting so he wouldn't find the "hidden gems". Good O system with mediocre recruiting means mediocre results.

I'm on record as saying if Richt ran an Air Raid O at Miami it would be spectacular with the caliber of athletes, plus it would help mask a physically weak OL (whereas RPO they are run blocking most plays and getting pushed into the backfield).

 

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah, I wouldn't call the Air Raid that Lincoln Riley learned from Mike Leach, gimmicky either.

Funny how OU’s “air raid” has produced four 1,000 yard rushers in the last 3 seasons.

Periene, Mixon, Anderson, and Sermon have rushed for 6,500 yards the last three seasons.

OU runs a Power Spread, sweetheart. Riley mixed in some of the air raid route concepts, but I doubt Leach ever had two 1000 yard rushers ever. Much less two in the same season.

 

[Loose Cannon]

The last three seasons, Lincoln Riley’s “air raid” has Out rushed Miami’s Pro Style by over 100 yards per game.

2017
Miami 79th 148 ypg
OU 25th 217 ypg

2016
Miami 101st 133 ypg
OU 18th 237 ypg

2015
Miami 118th 113 ypg
OU 22nd 222 ypg

GTFOH WID YO BULL**** MAN!

 

[mossmadness]

Funny how OU’s “air raid” has produced four 1,000 yard rushers in the last 3 seasons.

Periene, Mixon, Anderson, and Sermon have rushed for 6,500 yards the last three seasons.

OU runs a Power Spread, sweetheart. Riley mixed in some of the air raid route concepts, but I doubt Leach ever had two 1000 yard rushers ever. Much less two in the same season.

lol. Lincoln Riley runs an Air Raid. Go look at his offenses in ECU right before he came to OU. You think he actually completely changed offenses in one year?
He incorporated power football into the Air Raid because OU had the personnel to run that when he got there.
It's not that you can't run out of the Air Raid. It's that teams that struggle to run the football adopt the Air Raid. If everybody could, they would just run it down your throat every play. But few teams will ever have the ability to do that, and lower tier teams basically have no chance. So they adopt offenses like the Air Raid. Riley is perhaps the first time an Air Raid disciple has ever been at a school that allows for a running game. So what does he do?...he runs the football. Imagine that.

 

[mossmadness]

Obviously, there is far more talent in Florida than in Washington but the what you keep glossing over is that the talented kids in Florida wouldn't want to play for him, they would look at him as a joke. Recruiting in South Fla is not easy by any standard, there's a reason why the 3 coached we've had before Richt & after Butch struggled so bad at it because they completely underestimated the politics that comes with it.

You seem to think he would get kids because he would win a lot games & they would come anyway, that's the flaw, he's not going to win the games you assume he would & there's a track record of him doing that. You're basically arguing he would be a great Offensive Coordinator for Miami, but HC encompasses far more than throwing the ball 60 times a game.

Huhhhhh? I keep glossing over that? You're just beating up straw men at this point. I explicitly wrote I'm not sure if he would ever recruit well enough to have gotten us over the national title hump, and that the only chance to do that would be if he hired his own version of Ron Zook. So I have no idea what poster you're talking about when you say people are glossing over his recruiting issues and whether he could get enough elite South Florida recruits, because it isn't me.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

There's nothing "gimmick" about the Air Raid anymore than "OBP" is an offensive gimmick in baseball.

He admits that he runs a system built for lesser athletes. I mean, he literally admits it. Have you ever stopped to wonder why that system does not and has not won a championship?

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

......lower tier teams basically have no chance. So they adopt offenses like the Air Raid.

Exactly what I said. That's why it's a gimmick. Teams have to run something like the Air Raid to have a shot against better athletes. So if we agree on the reason why Leach runs it, why on earth would we want to try it at a program that has better athletes than most of our opponents???

Riley is perhaps the first time an Air Raid disciple has ever been at a school that allows for a running game. So what does he do?...he runs the football. Imagine that.

Exactly, again. Why would you continue to run some Air Raid gimmick when you can run the football? You're agreeing with us. As soon as Riley didn't need the Air Raid, he didn't lean on the Air Raid. It's a gimmick.

 

[mossmadness]

He admits that he runs a system built for lesser athletes. I mean, he literally admits it. Have you ever stopped to wonder why that system does not and has not won a championship?

It's not a "lesser athlete system." It's a system frequently adopted by schools with lesser athletes, because the system is so good, it's basically the only chance they have to compete.
But Leach doesn't claim he and Mumme came up with the system for lesser athletes. They instead studied every offense system there is in football. Going to every school that would have them, from Edwards at BYU to Erickson at Miami. And adopted the best concepts of it to try to create the best offensive system. Which of course is the system you would run if you didn't know what talent you would be getting. No sane person would select the Power-I if I made you select an offensive system, but didn't tell you what offensive talent level I was going to assign you.

 

[mossmadness]

Exactly what I said. That's why it's a gimmick. Teams have to run something like the Air Raid to have a shot against better athletes. So if we agree on the reason why Leach runs it, why on earth would we want to try it at a program that has better athletes than most of our opponents???



Exactly, again. Why would you continue to run some Air Raid gimmick when you can run the football? You're agreeing with us. As soon as Riley didn't need the Air Raid, he didn't lean on the Air Raid. It's a gimmick.

He still runs the Air Raid. He just runs out of it.
Look, if you didn't need to brush your hair or put on a shirt to go out and get laid, you wouldn't. You'd do whatever was the absolute easiest, less burdensome practice for getting laid. But that doesn't mean it's the most efficient, or that it's a gimmick when you do go brush your hair and teeth and put on a shirt before going out.
Just turning around and handing the ball off every down until you reach the end zone is great. Everybody wishes they had the personnel to do that every down.
The best offenses are those that allow you to get as close as you can to "hand the ball off personnel" results, when you don't have hand the ball off personnel.
The fault of Billy Bean's "Money Ball" philosophy wasn't that he wasn't copying what the Yankees were doing. That's actually the genius of it.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

It's not a "lesser athlete system." It's a system frequently adopted by schools with lesser athletes, because the system is so good, it's basically the only chance they have to compete.

The system is so good, that's why Leach STILL can't convince kids to play for him after 17 years as a head coach. And the system is so good, that's why the best teams in college football aren't trying to copy it.

But Leach doesn't claim he and Mumme came up with the system for lesser athletes. They instead studied every offense system there is in football. Going to every school that would have them, from Edwards at BYU to Erickson at Miami. And adopted the best concepts of it to try to create the best offensive system. Which of course is the system you would run if you didn't know what talent you would be getting. No sane person would select the Power-I if I made you select an offensive system, but didn't tell you what offensive talent level I was going to assign you.

So Mumme and Leach are the coaches who nailed down the best offensive system? Did I just read that correctly?

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

He still runs the Air Raid. He just runs out of it.
Look, if you didn't need to brush your hair or put on a shirt to go out and get laid, you wouldn't. You'd do whatever was the absolute easiest, less burdensome practice for getting laid. But that doesn't mean it's the most efficient, or that it's a gimmick when you do go brush your hair and teeth and put on a shirt before going out.
Just turning around and handing the ball off every down until you reach the end zone is great. Everybody wishes they had the personnel to do that every down.
The best offenses are those that allow you to get as close as you can to "hand the ball off personnel" results, when you don't have hand the ball off personnel.
The fault of Billy Bean's "Money Ball" philosophy wasn't that he wasn't copying what the Yankees were doing. That's actually the genius of it.

Who said you have to turn around and hand it off every down? Obviously you need to throw the ball. But the Mike Leach version of the Air Raid doesn't even bother with the run. When you show up against a mediocre Cal team and rush for 23 yards, you end up losing 37-3 to that mediocre Cal team. When the one thing you practice doesn't show up, game over.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Washington State's average rushing yards in their four losses: 16.75 yards per game. That is not a typo.

 

[mossmadness]

So Mumme and Leach are the coaches who nailed down the best offensive system? Did I just read that correctly?

No. But to be fair, that doesn't appear to be a strength of yours.
You said Leach's intent was to create a system for lesser athletes. I said their intent was to create the best offensive system. At no point does my post argue they actually did create such a system.

 

[Gatorhater]

The transcript is in the article

"Those ideals have often been threatened by an older, more traditional view of power. This alternative vision argues that ordinary men and women are too small-minded to govern their own affairs, that order and progress can only come when individuals surrender their rights to an all-powerful sovereign."

Hamilton said. “People naturally divide into two groups, the well born and the orthers. The others are seldom of one mind and when they are they are always wrong! Give then the former(the well born” a permanent place in the governance for they will always govern wisely”.

He wanted lifetime appointments for the Senate{remember senators were pointed not elected originally}. The compromise was 6 years with three different classes chosen, later elected, every two years. That allows to this day for 2/3 of the senate to vote the way they want or are told to without facing election for 4 or 6 years. That is plenty of time to make voters forget.

Most of the Fathers did not want a powerful central government which is why they formed a Republic not a nation state like France or England. Since the Civil War we have moved toward a nation state with out regard to the Constitution so Hamilton must be smiling wherever Burr’s well placed lead ball sent him.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

No. But to be fair, that doesn't appear to be a strength of yours.
You said Leach's intent was to create a system for lesser athletes. I said their intent was to create the best offensive system. At no point does my post argue they actually did create such a system.

Good, then we agree that they failed in that venture.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

If you think Duke or Pitt or UVA would stop a Miami Mike Leach offense, that's just being a "bland" critic of his.

That's the beauty of the Mike Leach system. You never know which mediocre opponent is going to shut you down. Last year it was Cal. The year before it was Minnesota. Before that it was Portland State (!). It's fun for everyone to sit back and see if this is the night that we get sacked seven times, throw three picks, and rush for 17 yards while giving up 30 points to a team that finishes 5-7.

 

[Loose Cannon]

lol. Lincoln Riley runs an Air Raid. He incorporated power football into because OU had the personnel to run that when he got there.
It's not that you can't run out of the Air Raid. It's that teams that struggle to run the football adopt the Air Raid. If everybody could, they would just run it down your throat every play. But few teams will ever have the ability to do that, and lower tier teams basically have no chance. So they adopt offenses like the Air Raid. Riley is perhaps the first time an Air Raid disciple has ever been at a school that allows for a running game.

Lincoln Riley runs Power Spread. There is at least 1 RB and an H back in the formation on almost every play. Leach’s offense is about 85% pass heavy. Riley runs a balanced offense that is a mix of power run and 3 wide spread. He imported some of the bunch, motion, and route concepts from Leach, but OU doesn’t run an Air Raid by any stretch of the imagination. They are not putting their QB out there in zero with no protection and all or nothing routes on every play. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You hear Riley coached under Leach, so your natural reaction is that all Riley knows is Air Raid. There's a time for zero, and it's after you've softened up the D and sucked them into having to respect the run. Any half decent defense will beat you if you only do one thing well. Riley understands this. Leach does not. This is why Riley is already a more accomplished HC than his mentor.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Lincoln Riley runs Power Spread. There is at least 1 RB and an H back in the formation on almost every play. Leach’s offense is about 85% pass heavy. Riley runs a balanced offense that is a mix of power run and 3 wide spread. He imported some of the bunch, motion, and route concepts from Leach, but OU doesn’t run an Air Raid by any stretch of the imagination. They are not putting their QB out there in zero with no protection and all or nothing routes on every play. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You hear Riley coached under Leach, so your natural reaction is that all Riley knows is Air Raid. There's a time for zero, and it's after you've softened up the D and sucked them into having to respect the run. Any half decent defense will beat you if you only do one thing well. Riley understands this. Leach does not. This is why Riley is already a more accomplished HC than his mentor.

Not only that, there is also zero indication that a Washington State program cannot run the football. They play in the Pac-12 for crying out loud. Oregon State won one (1) game and doubled Wazzu's rushing production in 2017. If Mike Leach wanted to be balanced like Lincoln Riley, he could do it. He just chooses not to.

 

[mossmadness]

Lincoln Riley runs Power Spread. There is at least 1 RB and an H back in the formation on almost every play. Leach’s offense is about 85% pass heavy. Riley runs a balanced offense that is a mix of power run and 3 wide spread. He imported some of the bunch, motion, and route concepts from Leach, but OU doesn’t run an Air Raid by any stretch of the imagination. They are not putting their QB out there in zero with no protection and all or nothing routes on every play. You don’t know what you’re talking about. You hear Riley coached under Leach, so your natural reaction is that all Riley knows is Air Raid. There's a time for zero, and it's after you've softened up the D and sucked them into having to respect the run. Any half decent defense will beat you if you only do one thing well. Riley understands this. Leach does not. This is why Riley is already a more accomplished HC than his mentor.

lol. Okay. Riley doesn't run the Air Raid. Got it. Dude completely abandoned the offense he ran before he got to OU, for a power spread. He def. didn't adapt it to the power backfield OU had when he got there.

 

[mossmadness]

That's the beauty of the Mike Leach system. You never know which mediocre opponent is going to shut you down. Last year it was Cal. The year before it was Minnesota. Before that it was Portland State (!). It's fun for everyone to sit back and see if this is the night that we get sacked seven times, throw three picks, and rush for 17 yards while giving up 30 points to a team that finishes 5-7.

Yeah, man. Washington State should just go back to being able to run the football like they did before Leach.