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The Mike Leach Fan club

Somebody is confusing the air raid and the spread. The air raid purposely avoids running the football. That's why it's called the "air raid". The air raid doesn't use a tight end or h back. Leach himself has said he doesn't bother using tight ends because there's a shortage of big guys who can run and he can't recruit them. If you watched an Oklahoma game and said they're running the same offense as Washington State, you literally have no idea what you're watching.
 
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No one told Jerome Harrison that he wasn't supposed to run for 2800 yards in two years at Washington State.
 
Cal, known historically for its grinding running game, can run for 125 yards per game. But Wazzu? 70 is their ceiling.
 
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DTP said:
Somebody is confusing the air raid and the spread. The air raid purposely avoids running the football. That's why it's called the "air raid". The air raid doesn't use a tight end or h back. Leach himself has said he doesn't bother using tight ends because there's a shortage of big guys who can run and he can't recruit them. If you watched an Oklahoma game and said they're running the same offense as Washington State, you literally have no idea what you're watching.
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No, I said he runs the Air Raid. Whether he has incorporated other concepts into his Air Raid since arriving at OU, I have never debated. I have actually said he has, because he now can.
As Leach said, it's difficult to run what it's difficult to recruit for.
The debate here is whether OU runs something completely different, with a little Air Raid mixed in. Which the one poster argued.
Or whether they run the Air Raid, with other concepts mixed in, and WHY they run that?
As I said, go look at his ECU offense. Go listen to the QB that was at UVA after transferring to ECU, explain to Kirk Cousins the entire offense under him at ECU. It was 100% Air Raid. That's his foundation. That's the offense he runs. He has adjusted it accordingly based on what the personnel allows. Which of course every OC worth a **** would do, as Leach would do if he was at a school that allowed for such things.
 
Again, why is he not allowed to have a balanced offense at Washington State? Worse teams in worse situations manage to run the ball. What is unique about Washington State, in the entire FBS, that makes it the second worst running team in America?
 
What's funny about this guy still calling OU an "Air Raid" team is that OU ran the ball 60% of the time last year and finished #90 out of 123 teams in passing offense. That's like watching Paul Johnson throw the ball 60% of the time and saying that he's still an option guy.

OU threw for under 250 yards 11 times in 13 games. They threw the ball less than Virginia, Michigan State, and Texas, all of whom tried to keep their mediocre QBs from losing the game. But Air Raid. Mike Leach disciple.
 
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Leach will never get over the hump until he realize a running game is mandatory in football.
 
mossmadness said:
No, I said he runs the Air Raid. Whether he has incorporated other concepts into his Air Raid since arriving at OU, I have never debated. I have actually said he has, because he now can.
As Leach said, it's difficult to run what it's difficult to recruit for.
The debate here is whether OU runs something completely different, with a little Air Raid mixed in. Which the one poster argued.
Or whether they run the Air Raid, with other concepts mixed in, and WHY they run that?
As I said, go look at his ECU offense. Go listen to the QB that was at UVA after transferring to ECU, explain to Kirk Cousins the entire offense under him at ECU. It was 100% Air Raid. That's his foundation. That's the offense he runs. He has adjusted it accordingly based on what the personnel allows. Which of course every OC worth a **** would do, as Leach would do if he was at a school that allowed for such things.
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Why would watching ECU tell me anything at all about what OU runs?

Riley doesn’t run the same offense at OU than he did at ECU, and you seem to be the only person on the planet who doesn’t get that.
 
Loose Cannon said:
Why would watching ECU tell me anything at all about what OU runs?

Riley doesn’t run the same offense at OU than he did at ECU, and you seem to be the only person on the planet who doesn’t get that.
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As soon as Riley got a job coaching talented players, he dumped the gimmick system and ran something that actually works against teams with a pulse. Besides, it was Ruffin McNeal's offense at ECU anyway. Mc Neal is a known Hal Mumme/ Mike Leach disciple.
 
The Air Raid's base formation is 21 personnel

In 2016, WSU ran the ball 362 times, Miami ran it 385 times last year (13 games a piece)

Miami has struggled to find TE's, imagine how hard it is at WSU, Leach used TE's at Texas Tech

He's a one-back coach, that's why he doesn't run 2-back, why waste time finding FBs when you can bring in more WR's

Riley can recruit and find walk-ons for ANY POSITION at OK, so why not recruit a flex/TE and then bring in walk-on FBs that would have started ay ECU?

OK runs the Air Raid. If your formations and play calling system are X, then you run X. Just because Riley adds a counter or Dana adds RPO's doesn't mean it's not Air Raid. An example is "6" wasn't in the original Air Raid playbook- now it's a staple. Systems evolve.
 
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Ironmanfootball said:
The Air Raid's base formation is 21 personnel

In 2016, WSU ran the ball 362 times, Miami ran it 385 times last year (13 games a piece)

Miami has struggled to find TE's, imagine how hard it is at WSU, Leach used TE's at Texas Tech

He's a one-back coach, that's why he doesn't run 2-back, why waste time finding FBs when you can bring in more WR's

Riley can recruit and find walk-ons for ANY POSITION at OK, so why not recruit a flex/TE and then bring in walk-on FBs that would have started ay ECU?

OK runs the Air Raid. If your formations and play calling system are X, then you run X. Just because Riley adds a counter or Dana adds RPO's doesn't mean it's not Air Raid. An example is "6" wasn't in the original Air Raid playbook- now it's a staple. Systems evolve.
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But isn’t Air Raid just basically a Spread once you strip a pretty much everything but ISO from the run game?

And then doesn’t incorporation of the Flex or H-back as a lead blocker in power running game now make it a Power Spread?

I mean, sure, I think we’re in agreement that these are all variations of the same thing, especially when you incorporate route concepts like the mesh routes, but the Offense Oklahoma runs is different than Washington State or ECU.
 
Riley still refers to it as the "Air Raid" but it's had so many changes in personnel and formations it hardly resembles the Hal Mumme/ Mike Leach offense.

We've gotten way off base anyway. The fact of the matter is, Mike Leach would not succeed as a coach here unless he made significant changes to
1) his offensive philosophy
2) his commitment to recruiting
3) his commitment to playing defense (Although last year might have been the first time in his career his defense wasn't garbage)

He's been coaching a long time and so far has made no attempt to change anything I listed above. Why would he all of the sudden change now?
 
@Loose Cannon But Mumme used a 2nd back for his lead play. Washington State's offense doesn't look like Kentucky's, either. Leach runs his brand of Air Raid that's obviously leaning on 10 personnel at this point. Dana likes 2 backs a lot.

@DTP if Riley still refers to it as the "Air Raid" I'll take that for what it's worth. Riley knows what he runs.

I don't think Mike Leach is what Miami needs. Leach thrives as an "underdog" and Miami needs play 50/50 football to lean on being in a talent saturated area that is fickle as **** in recruiting. Richt is a great choice as he wants to play 50/50 football, wins 10 games, doesn't say crazy stuff, got the IPF built. Leach's entire aura is better suited at a lesser program.

I wouldn't entirely blame Leach on the defense thing, WSU has a **** load more talent on D than ever before and the S&P+ ranked them 29th, Miami was 22nd last year and you can't say there's equal talent.
 
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Ironmanfootball said:
@Loose Cannon But Mumme used a 2nd back for his lead play. Washington State's offense doesn't look like Kentucky's, either. Leach runs his brand of Air Raid that's obviously leaning on 10 personnel at this point. Dana likes 2 backs a lot.

@DTP if Riley still refers to it as the "Air Raid" I'll take that for what it's worth. Riley knows what he runs.

I don't think Mike Leach is what Miami needs. Leach thrives as an "underdog" and Miami needs play 50/50 football to lean on being in a talent saturated area that is fickle as **** in recruiting. Richt is a great choice as he wants to play 50/50 football, wins 10 games, doesn't say crazy stuff, got the IPF built. Leach's entire aura is better suited at a lesser program.

I wouldn't entirely blame Leach on the defense thing, WSU has a **** load more talent on D than ever before and the S&P+ ranked them 29th, Miami was 22nd last year and you can't say there's equal talent.
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Riley could call his offense the pantie raid for all I care. The fact remains, what he's doing at Oklahoma is vastly different from what Leach is doing at WSU. And it's different from what Holgerson is doing at WVU and it's different from what Mike Riley is doing at Oklahoma State. Probably the best comparison to Mike Leach's offense is Sonny Dykes or Ruffin McNeal.

As for defense, I'll give him credit if he can consistently field an above average unit. D'Onofrio had two top 25 defenses at Miami according to the numbers.

And yes, he's perfect where he's at. The expectations are not high, he's under no pressure to win conference or national titles. He'll field a winning team that plays an exciting style of football and keep butts in seats.
 
@DTP I'll take Riley's opinion of what he does over either of ours.

S&P+ defensive rankings of Miami 2011-2015:
52, 25, 68, 68, 54

Leach improved the WSU defense from 105th before he arrived to 29th- I'll say some focus on defense happened. We'll see what Tracy Claeys can do this year.

All in all, he would be a bad choice at Miami. Many people feel Leach could wind up G5 once WSU fires him this off season. What's a weird place with no identity? Tulane?
 
Ironmanfootball said:
@DTP I'll take Riley's opinion of what he does over either of ours.

S&P+ defensive rankings of Miami 2011-2015:
52, 25, 68, 68, 54

Leach improved the WSU defense from 105th before he arrived to 29th- I'll say some focus on defense happened. We'll see what Tracy Claeys can do this year.

All in all, he would be a bad choice at Miami. Many people feel Leach could wind up G5 once WSU fires him this off season. What's a weird place with no identity? Tulane?
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Do you believe he gets fired? I'll admit I haven't paid much attention to the fallout from the twitter post. I thought it was kind of stupid but nothing horrible but I'm not running a university.

I'm sure there's somebody out there that would take him in a heartbeat though. Plenty of G5 schools could use the popularity boost. Maybe even a crappy P5 school like Kansas. I actually think he'd be perfect for a school like that. You're never going to get talent but expectations are minimal so an 8 win season would be mind blowing for their fans.
 
Ironmanfootball said:
@Loose Cannon But Mumme used a 2nd back for his lead play. Washington State's offense doesn't look like Kentucky's, either. Leach runs his brand of Air Raid that's obviously leaning on 10 personnel at this point. Dana likes 2 backs a lot.

@DTP if Riley still refers to it as the "Air Raid" I'll take that for what it's worth. Riley knows what he runs.

I don't think Mike Leach is what Miami needs. Leach thrives as an "underdog" and Miami needs play 50/50 football to lean on being in a talent saturated area that is fickle as **** in recruiting. Richt is a great choice as he wants to play 50/50 football, wins 10 games, doesn't say crazy stuff, got the IPF built. Leach's entire aura is better suited at a lesser program.

I wouldn't entirely blame Leach on the defense thing, WSU has a **** load more talent on D than ever before and the S&P+ ranked them 29th, Miami was 22nd last year and you can't say there's equal talent.
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I get what you're saying, but it's overlooking the fact that every variation of Spread offense is a variation and subtle tweaks of Mumme's original Air Raid. But there are subtle differences in these offenses, and there are enough differences between Leach's version of Air Raid--which is the subject of this thread, and what Lincoln Riley is doing at OU--which is better described as Power Spread, that they are basically two entirely different offenses.

If we're going to say that every team that uses mesh routes and combos that attack both the short and deep to spread out the coverage, is an air raid, then there's 127 Air Raid offenses, Navy, and GaTech in FBS.

There have been many evolutions of the original Air Raid concept, but we have recognized these differences and have given them different names that highlight these differences. Mike Leach at Washington State hasn't had a running back gain 1,000 yards in an entire college career. 3 of his 6 years, nobody broke 500 yards, and 1 year his leading rusher had 280 yards.

In the last 3 years at OU Lincoln Riley has had 4 different backs break 1,000 and those 4 combined for over 6,500 yards in those three seasons.

Those are 2 different offenses.
 
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