Talent

[bobbydigius]

Evals mean you eyeball somebody that some don’t see. You see their potential and what they can be with coaching , his evals were god awful. Some of the worst I’ve seen. There’s programs that survive purely on evaluations then developing those guys.

Manny was the worst of the worst, just check recruiting on the defensive side of the ball. Embarrassing ****.

 

[JHallCanes]

yup. Golden at least knew nfl talent.

I think that was the part that was so infuriating when Golden was here with his DC

They kept talking about patience with the defense and all that but meanwhile they were stacking some pretty good talent on that side of the ball

I just remember thinking if we aren’t winning with these guys…what more do you need?

 

[Bigdaddycane44]

No Miami wasn't and very well may still not be. Just delusional of all of us to think differently.

The gap is much closer between middling/lower tier P5 and G5 than most want to admit.

I do believe Miami is headed towards an upper tier echelon, just patience.

Prepare yourself emotionally for Y2 of Big Manny.

Our recruiting classes since 2018 per 247:

2018 - 8th
2019 - 27th
2020 - 17th
2021 - 11th
2022 - 16th

Middle Tennessee State

2018 - 104th
2019- 85th
2020 - 93rd
2021 - 121st
2022 - 108th

Now I don’t buy a lot of the recruiting hype, but there’s no way you’re going to convince me programs like MTSU have more talent than we do. Not even close.

 

[Bigdaddycane44]

Everyone with a lick of common sense pleaded with Cristobal when he was hired to bring in a spread OC to get the most out of TVD and whatever talent there may have been on the roster. He chose not to. We then had one of the worst seasons ever. He then decided to go to a spread this year, which is as close to a confession as you are going to get that Cristobal made a colossal mistake with his first OC hire, so you can't honestly judge the talent in the roster when the HC and OC set up the players for failure.

It's a pathetic, lame excuse to go from having a top 25 offense for 2 years in a row to claiming that a 5 win season and literally one one of the worst offenses in all cfb is the handiwork of the previous HCs. I'm not buying it.

For example, if Cristobal had given TVD a spread OC, I think there would have been a decent chance he would have followed his 2021 campaign with another outstanding season and be a 2nd round pick or better. Instead TVD looked like he wasn't even good enough to be a G5 backup QB in the Cristo-bro offense.


If the situation had been the opposite and Cristobal had taken a bottom of the barrel offense and turned them into a top 25 O, not a single person on this forum would have given any credit to Diaz or Richt for finding the players. Every one would say Cristobal should be lauded for getting the most out of the limited talent on the roster. You can't have it both ways, where a new HC only gets credit for good things and gets to blame bad things on the previous HCs.

Yep. And people hating on Manny’s recruiting apparently give him 0 credit for TVD and bringing in D King as a transfer.

 

[Bigdaddycane44]

I think that was the part that was so infuriating when Golden was here with his DC

They kept talking about patience with the defense and all that but meanwhile they were stacking some pretty good talent on that side of the ball

I just remember thinking if we aren’t winning with these guys…what more do you need?

A lot of people actually said the same crap about lack of talent when Golden was here. Defense had future NFL players Dion Bush, Artie Burns, Rayshawn Jenkins, AQ Muhammad, Gunter, and pro bowl LB Denzel Perryman. There are others I can’t name off the top of my head. 4/5 OL from the 2013 team ended up in the NFL. Pretty sure Brandon Linder made a few pro bowls. WR Allen Hurns was a pro bowler at one point too.

Those defenses fielded by Golden were historically bad statistically. Far worse than anything Randy or Manny fielded. Golden wasted a ton of talent. More than most people realized.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

View attachment 237020
Speaking of talent and evals… this one is gonna sting for a minute. Smh.

If I recall correctly , Flowers was a top transfer target for Cristobal last season, but he was one of several skill position players that publicly stated they turned down a huge NIL offer from UM to stay with their respective schools. Cristobals reputation of running an offense that is unfriendly to WRs bit him in the a$$ even before he coached his first game at UM. Objectively, Flowers was smart not to take the money. If he had played in the Cristo-bro offense , he'd probably have fallen towards bottom of the draft, and a good portion of this board would be crowing today that he was an overrated bust (because it can't possibly be Cristobals fault).

My mope level is set to 11 today because I initially had a very pleasant work meeting yesterday with a new colleague, but when I mentioned I was a UM alum, he revealed his large collection of FSU memorabilia and chuckled at how FSU stomped UM last season. So Cristobal is at the top of my sh! t list at the moment.

 

[NJshoreCane]

Seriously?

I've gotta go do some things, but there's no way you believe half of what you typed up.

I do have time for one thing though.

Scrubs under Manny against Duke. 47-10
Scrubs under Mario against Duke. 45-21

That's a 61 point swing, many of the same players. New coaches on both sides. Are the players scrubs or did one team get a scrub coach and staff?

Scrub coaching job by Mario in ‘22…
Agree.

If you came to the conclusion that Mario, after 1 year, is more of a scrub than what we saw of 3 years of Manny….
Disagree.

 

[Jaxcane4]

Yep. And people hating on Manny’s recruiting apparently give him 0 credit for TVD and bringing in D King as a transfer.

Alright and what did Manny leave on the team last year at Wr, OL, DL and LB? I couldn't imagine this defense without Nyjalik, Mesidor, Francisco and Wesley. Would be going into another season talking about how Flagg and keontra had taken the next step over spring.

 

[jackedaround]

We had very little talent last year. The idiots of cis can't figure It out.

 

[nycane]

I think that was the part that was so infuriating when Golden was here with his DC

They kept talking about patience with the defense and all that but meanwhile they were stacking some pretty good talent on that side of the ball

I just remember thinking if we aren’t winning with these guys…what more do you need?

the guy knew nfl talent and developed, he was bitter and kept his boy around. In fairness to the guy, he recruited pretty well with one hand tied behind his back.

 

[NJshoreCane]

If I recall correctly , Flowers was a top transfer target for Cristobal last season, but he was one of several skill position players that publicly stated they turned down a huge NIL offer from UM to stay with their respective schools. Cristobals reputation of running an offense that is unfriendly to WRs bit him in the a$$ even before he coached his first game at UM. Objectively, Flowers was smart not to take the money. If he had played in the Cristo-bro offense , he'd probably have fallen towards bottom of the draft, and a good portion of this board would be crowing today that he was an overrated bust (because it can't possibly be Cristobals fault)

Smart decision by ZF to stay put.

The NFL new about him.
If he came here, Would he have gone 22? No.
No way he falls to the bottom of the draft though.

 

[FuriousStyles]

If I recall correctly , Flowers was a top transfer target for Cristobal last season, but he was one of several skill position players that publicly stated they turned down a huge NIL offer from UM to stay with their respective schools. Cristobals reputation of running an offense that is unfriendly to WRs bit him in the a$$ even before he coached his first game at UM. Objectively, Flowers was smart not to take the money. If he had played in the Cristo-bro offense , he'd probably have fallen towards bottom of the draft, and a good portion of this board would be crowing today that he was an overrated bust (because it can't possibly be Cristobals fault).

My mope level is set to 11 today because I initially had a very pleasant work meeting yesterday with a new colleague, but when I mentioned I was a UM alum, he revealed his large collection of FSU memorabilia and chuckled at how FSU stomped UM last season. So Cristobal is at the top of my sh! t list at the moment.

All of what you said is true but the “they said no” refers to 2019 when he was coming out of HS. Had we offered… he would’ve been here.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Alright and what did Manny leave on the team last year at Wr, OL, DL and LB? I couldn't imagine this defense without Nyjalik, Mesidor, Francisco and Wesley. Would be going into another season talking about how Flagg and keontra had taken the next step over spring.

I'll go back to what 3 time national champ and all time scumbag Urban Meyer said - any coach who blames a previous coach for his own failures is a pu$$y. A head coach gets paid a lot of money to get figure out how to get the most of the players on the current roster. Now - if after coaching well, motivating the players, and putting them in a position to win, they still fall short because they are physically overmatched, then it's fair to say the coach did the best he could with what he had. But If a coach is only able to motivate players after replacing the entire roster and bringing in players that are true believers and fit his exact specifications for his system, then he's not a good coach.

 

[M3N]

I think many Canes fans are delusional beyond repair.

Did Mario **** the best this past year? YES! 8 wins or more was going to be a tall task know matter what. We had holes all over the roster not to mention we were bringing in an entire new coaching staff.

Since the end of the Comer era till now we’ve had 8 or more wins 6x. Six out of 16 years is pathetic.

What people fail to realize is that our issue is twofold. It’s been bad coaching along with terrible evaluation/development.

Gotta stop saying that Mario took a 7-5 team and made them worse.

First off the Roster left behind by Manny is the worst roster since the end of the Erickson era/ early Butch.

Secondly, we overrate our talent beyond all recognition. I implore you to turn on another team and just watch how these guys move. We’ve had guys for 4+ who couldn’t catch a football. That has nothing to do with coaching. Mark duper wasn’t gonna improve Mark Pope and Wiggins.

MTSU had WRs blowing the doors off our defense because we recruited guys like DJ IVEY who had no business playing P5 D1 ball.

We haven’t generated a push offensively since Stoutland. That’s because we’ve trotted out guys like DJ Scaif and Trevor Darling who wouldn’t get snaps at Wake Forest. They were both 4 stars, but that doesn’t mean ****. We’ve had scrubs so long that most of this board has forgotten what a real athlete looks like.

James Williams is a 5 star and WTF has he done? He is criminally overrated and should not be playing safety. We evaluated him wrong. He’s slow and can’t tackle. That’s not a 5 star.

Im interested to see what we can do when we actually have P5 quality athletes. The guys Mario has been bringing in are on a different level athletically than we’ve had in a long time.

If we keep recruiting like last year and sprinkle in real coaching we’ll be cooking.

 

[JimmyJohnsonsHair]

To add to that, where is the talent from on those teams that whooped our ***..

MTSU
Duke
FSU


Those games weren't close.

Pitt had 1, but again we were whooped.

UNC, close, but no draft pick in the criteria you selected.

Criminal work by Mario and company.

I think it’s both. The talent is not where it needs to be and hasn’t been for a while (obviously not Mario’s fault), but we also had enough talent to be better than 5 - 7. Mario and his staff are to blame for underperforming with the talent they inherited.

 

[Jaxcane4]

I'll go back to what 3 time national champ and all time scumbag Urban Meyer said - any coach who blames a previous coach for his own failures is a pu$$y. A head coach gets paid a lot of money to get figure out how to get the most of the players on the current roster. Now - if after coaching well, motivating the players, and putting them in a position to win, they still fall short because they are physically overmatched, then it's fair to say the coach did the best he could with what he had. But If a coach is only able to motivate players after replacing the entire roster and bringing in players that are true believers and fit his exact specifications for his system, then he's not a good coach.

I think everyone knew in advance Mario isn't great with the xs and os. In fact going in people said he was bad at it and would have to build the team up over time. For immediate results should of went with Kiffin. If we are still getting molly whooped by ACC teams by his third year you can chalk it up to him failing at the main thing he was supposed to be good at.

 

[mirvin88]

Manny may have had the worst evals in the history of college football

FIFY

 

[sdaly12]

Beating a dead horse, but once again the NFL draft shows the lack of talent we have.

Illinois (x2)
Texas tech
Northwestern
Iowa State
Mississippi State
Pittsburg
TCU (x2)
Boston college
Maryland
Utah
Kansas State (x2)
Kentucky
Syracuse
Oregon State
Georgia Tech
North Dakota State
Michigan St
UCLA
SMU

All before Tyrique Stevenson in the 2nd round. And he transferred in here.

By the begging of the 5th round, many of the schools above had multiple players drafted. We have no more than 1…

The roster prior to Mario was at a group of 5 level maybe even worse.

Bad , no wait horrific talent evals at HS level and even worse if possible player development . this has been the story for what ?
20+ years

 

[Bigdaddycane44]

I think many Canes fans are delusional beyond repair.

Did Mario **** the best this past year? YES! 8 wins or more was going to be a tall task know matter what. We had holes all over the roster not to mention we were bringing in an entire new coaching staff.

Since the end of the Comer era till now we’ve had 8 or more wins 6x. Six out of 16 years is pathetic.

What people fail to realize is that our issue is twofold. It’s been bad coaching along with terrible evaluation/development.

Gotta stop saying that Mario took a 7-5 team and made them worse.

First off the Roster left behind by Manny is the worst roster since the end of the Erickson era/ early Butch.

Secondly, we overrate our talent beyond all recognition. I implore you to turn on another team and just watch how these guys move. We’ve had guys for 4+ who couldn’t catch a football. That has nothing to do with coaching. Mark duper wasn’t gonna improve Mark Pope and Wiggins.

MTSU had WRs blowing the doors off our defense because we recruited guys like DJ IVEY who had no business playing P5 D1 ball.

We haven’t generated a push offensively since Stoutland. That’s because we’ve trotted out guys like DJ Scaif and Trevor Darling who wouldn’t get snaps at Wake Forest. They were both 4 stars, but that doesn’t mean ****. We’ve had scrubs so long that most of this board has forgotten what a real athlete looks like.

James Williams is a 5 star and WTF has he done? He is criminally overrated and should not be playing safety. We evaluated him wrong. He’s slow and can’t tackle. That’s not a 5 star.

Im interested to see what we can do when we actually have P5 quality athletes. The guys Mario has been bringing in are on a different level athletically than we’ve had in a long time.

If we keep recruiting like last year and sprinkle in real coaching we’ll be cooking.

Winning 8 games really isn’t that hard, dude. We were 7-5 in 2021 and the schedule included legitimate title contenders. Also opted out of a bowl game we would have likely won to get to 8 wins.

I agree with you on some things you’re saying like James Williams. He might be a 5 star athlete but he’s not a 5 star football player. OL play has sucked for a long time. Lots of fans are delusional in thinking we’re going to go 15-0 while cruising to Natty Number 6 because we had a top 10 recruiting class. There’s no hope for these people. Now winning 8 games? That should be the minimum goal every year based on our laughable schedule. We get 1 FCS and 2 G5’s almost every year. That’s 3 easy wins. All you need to do is go 5-4 against the crappy ACC.

 

[Dwinstitles]

I think that was the part that was so infuriating when Golden was here with his DC

They kept talking about patience with the defense and all that but meanwhile they were stacking some pretty good talent on that side of the ball

I just remember thinking if we aren’t winning with these guys…what more do you need?

When Diaz changed scheme he benefited from RJ mac. Dude was a terror. My favorite cane on that defense that year with MR. He was unblockable until Clemson