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Some Ungodly talent.....

Brooklyndee said:
I talked with Sarge about this before cuz his closest comparison was Frank to Freddy. My question has always been your old heads speak forever about these dudes from when the competition level was nowhere near sufficient. You would have one person that was athletically Head and shoulders above 95% of his competition. It's like the talk about Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain yet everyone they were playing was athletically inferior to them. How can you judge someone's greatness off of that? That's not saying at all Freddy miles isn't exactly what he's been labeled as. It's just something I've always questioned about sports in general when people mention old people in how Superior they were opposed to players from 20 25 30 years ago who were playing with competition on par equivalent to theirs yet dominating in their fields. Obviously there's no way to ever get a true answer but it's always something I've been curious about mainly because of the running back standards when people speak about Earl Campbell Jim Brown Gale Sayers etc opposed to people like now or in my eyes the greatest ever do it Barry Sanders.
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D....I have Freddie, Frank and Troy the Top 3 I've seen in HS.....
 
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MedleyCane said:
From that picture, Mollinea, Fernandez and Bellinger ended up at UM. So did Cortes after he transferred from Kentucky. Rodney Lyles and Evan Cooper both signed state letter of intent with the Canes, but ended up at Michigan. Cooper played lots of years in NFL, and his son played at Temple, later working for Golden at same school and UM. The other LB from Miami Beach also signed with Michigan. The db from Miami Jax, Doug Hill, signed state of intent with FSU bit ended up at Ohio State.
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Andy Nolan from Beach High was recruited by Michigan but went to Harvard. His sister was a childhood friend of mine as I mentioned previously.
 
SayWhat said:
Disagree on the first and second part.

As to the third, I'm sure we'll all live.
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Hater.


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SWFLHurricane said:
D....I have Freddie, Frank and Troy the Top 3 I've seen in HS.....
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Frank and Troy I definitely couldn't argue. From everything I heard about Freddy in those days boy must've been crazy. I'd probably add Travis Henry only because of my own personal experience. I'm also real curious what Sean would've turned into had he stayed at rb. But definitely can't argue the choice. His logic was same as mine for choosing the side of the ball. He just wanted to punish people.
 
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Brooklyndee said:
I talked with Sarge about this before cuz his closest comparison was Frank to Freddy. My question has always been your old heads speak forever about these dudes from when the competition level was nowhere near sufficient. You would have one person that was athletically Head and shoulders above 95% of his competition. It's like the talk about Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain yet everyone they were playing was athletically inferior to them. How can you judge someone's greatness off of that? That's not saying at all Freddy miles isn't exactly what he's been labeled as. It's just something I've always questioned about sports in general when people mention old people in how Superior they were opposed to players from 20 25 30 years ago who were playing with competition on par equivalent to theirs yet dominating in their fields. Obviously there's no way to ever get a true answer but it's always something I've been curious about mainly because of the running back standards when people speak about Earl Campbell Jim Brown Gale Sayers etc opposed to people like now or in my eyes the greatest ever do it Barry Sanders.
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Glad you said it as I was thinking it.

Players back then were more just suit up and play. There was some weightlifting and whatnot, but not like today. They didn't play year round or take their craft as seriously. Sure, some did, but not like today. The size difference is night and day. Conditioning is night and day.

You could also assume that those guys back them would've looked different if they were born in the last two decades and had the advances in training and nutrition of today. It's a fact though that people in this country, height in particular, are growing. Size and length across the field would be different.

In any case, what you said. Just thought I'd add some things to it.
 
I forgot to add, I know it's hyperbole when people say whatever team could beat some NFL teams.

While I think that's not true in the modern sense this year's best college team could beat some NFL teams, if you took this year's best college team would be a different story. I think they'd smash some old NFL teams and champions. How far back you'd have to go, I'm not sure. The size and speed difference would be big.
 
I played with Alan Lawrence and against Freddie Miles and Busters Rhymes (I’m old). Freddie was the best I’ve ever seen at the high school level. His speed was unreal. Who knows what would have happened in college because he wasn’t the biggest back, but he was untouchable in high school. Buster was just a notch below, but not by much.
 
SayWhat said:
I forgot to add, I know it's hyperbole when people say whatever team could beat some NFL teams.

While I think that's not true in the modern sense this year's best college team could beat some NFL teams, if you took this year's best college team would be a different story. I think they'd smash some old NFL teams and champions. How far back you'd have to go, I'm not sure. The size and speed difference would be big.
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From 1934 to 1976, during the summer, the DEFENDING NFL CHAMPIONS would play an annual exhibition game against a college all-star team. The college teams won or tied 25% of the games played, although the last time the college all-star team won was 1963.

But if you think about it...if you picked the worst team in the NFL...and they had to play a highly-organized college team that wasn't just a collection of all-stars...I do think that the college team would stand a decent chance of winning.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
From 1934 to 1976, during the summer, the DEFENDING NFL CHAMPIONS would play an annual exhibition game against a college all-star team. The college teams won or tied 25% of the games played, although the last time the college all-star team won was 1963.

But if you think about it...if you picked the worst team in the NFL...and they had to play a highly-organized college team that wasn't just a collection of all-stars...I do think that the college team would stand a decent chance of winning.
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Anything is possible. Those old time teams were wild. Have a beer or three before a game at times, out all night before a gam, etc. Some old football stories are nuts, before they really knew any better. While a business back then, it was certainly more laid back and fun.
 
Nopain said:
I played with Alan Lawrence and against Freddie Miles and Busters Rhymes (I’m old). Freddie was the best I’ve ever seen at the high school level. His speed was unreal. Who knows what would have happened in college because he wasn’t the biggest back, but he was untouchable in high school. Buster was just a notch below, but not by much.
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As I said previously, he took that pitch out in 79, and went 85yds like it was 40yds....Total Insanity....even with the cutback...
 
SayWhat said:
I forgot to add, I know it's hyperbole when people say whatever team could beat some NFL teams.

While I think that's not true in the modern sense this year's best college team could beat some NFL teams, if you took this year's best college team would be a different story. I think they'd smash some old NFL teams and champions. How far back you'd have to go, I'm not sure. The size and speed difference would be big.
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52 pros between 22 and 30 will always beat what would be a roster of smaller, less experienced and less talented roster of college kids. There’s a reason rookies are rookies in the nfl. There isn’t a college football that could beat any NFL team. If you’ve ever been to an NFL practice, as compared to a college one, the difference is overwhelming
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
From 1934 to 1976, during the summer, the DEFENDING NFL CHAMPIONS would play an annual exhibition game against a college all-star team. The college teams won or tied 25% of the games played, although the last time the college all-star team won was 1963.

But if you think about it...if you picked the worst team in the NFL...and they had to play a highly-organized college team that wasn't just a collection of all-stars...I do think that the college team would stand a decent chance of winning.
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those were great games, i think bob hope did a show before the game IIRC.
 
SWFLHurricane said:
As I said previously, he took that pitch out in 79, and went 85yds like it was 40yds....Total Insanity....even with the cutback...
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While I'm in the Gore camp as you know, Miles was the first human I ever heard run by me while I stood on the sideline and the wind made a sound as he went by. It was pretty surreal.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
From 1934 to 1976, during the summer, the DEFENDING NFL CHAMPIONS would play an annual exhibition game against a college all-star team. The college teams won or tied 25% of the games played, although the last time the college all-star team won was 1963.

But if you think about it...if you picked the worst team in the NFL...and they had to play a highly-organized college team that wasn't just a collection of all-stars...I do think that the college team would stand a decent chance of winning.
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I think it would depend on how serious the NFL team took the game. Last year’s Jags beat UGA, Alabama, easily.

UGA and Bama’s two-deep had some players with NFL potential. The Jags were all NFL players.
 
Brooklyndee said:
I talked with Sarge about this before cuz his closest comparison was Frank to Freddy. My question has always been your old heads speak forever about these dudes from when the competition level was nowhere near sufficient. You would have one person that was athletically Head and shoulders above 95% of his competition. It's like the talk about Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain yet everyone they were playing was athletically inferior to them. How can you judge someone's greatness off of that? That's not saying at all Freddy miles isn't exactly what he's been labeled as. It's just something I've always questioned about sports in general when people mention old people in how Superior they were opposed to players from 20 25 30 years ago who were playing with competition on par equivalent to theirs yet dominating in their fields. Obviously there's no way to ever get a true answer but it's always something I've been curious about mainly because of the running back standards when people speak about Earl Campbell Jim Brown Gale Sayers etc opposed to people like now or in my eyes the greatest ever do it Barry Sanders.
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Difficult to compare eras, true. Rules were different as well.
 
TemplarCane said:
I think it would depend on how serious the NFL team took the game. Last year’s Jags beat UGA, Alabama, easily.

UGA and Bama’s two-deep had some players with NFL potential. The Jags were all NFL players.
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Not a chance in **** the Jags beat the best college teams. Jags were TERRIBLE. And you only need 2-deep, Alabama's not rolling out 3rd stringers for one game.

Just because an NFL player is professional doesn't make him automatically better than a college player. "Young" NFL teams beat "veteran" NFL players all the time, and there is just as big of an age/experience differential between a young NFL team and a veteran NFL team as there would be between a young NFL team and a college team.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Not a chance in **** the Jags beat the best college teams. Jags were TERRIBLE. And you only need 2-deep, Alabama's not rolling out 3rd stringers for one game.

Just because an NFL player is professional doesn't make him automatically better than a college player. "Young" NFL teams beat "veteran" NFL players all the time, and there is just as big of an age/experience differential between a young NFL team and a veteran NFL team as there would be between a young NFL team and a college team.
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Yes, there are college players who enter the NFL and excel out of the gate. Most don’t, even 1st rounders. The OL that DL Walker, Hutchington, and Thibbs start practicing and playing against are better than anyone they’ve ever played against. Even the best rookies often hit a wall. Even the best remark how difficult the NFL is, day in, day out.

Of course, we’re talking a single game.

Coaching will also matter.

The Jags were a mess with Meyer, so there’s that factor.
 
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