Remember when Manny was too stubborn?

[JHallCanes]

Matt ******* Rhule..Tom Herman..the names this board its very self co signed were ridiculous in hindsight

Yeah tough one. I was pretty big on Herman, though not nearly as big as most people here.

I’ve never liked the Diaz hire but I give him credit for making changes pretty quickly. A far cry from the glacial pace we are used to.

we basically battled Temple for their highest rated recruit though without even recruiting anyone else....

I suppose that point has been beaten to death enough though

 

[305to954]

Yeah tough one. I was pretty big on Herman, though not nearly as big as most people here.

I’ve never liked the Diaz hire but I give him credit for making changes pretty quickly. A far cry from the glacial pace we are used to.

we basically battled Temple for their highest rated recruit though without even recruiting anyone else....

I suppose that point has been beaten to death enough though

That’s all I’m saying..it’s a lot of mofos here who co signed a lot of individuals. And if we use the same hindsight they do with manny they look foolish. At least u admit to it lol. But the difference is with the never manny crew, they can’t give the man any credit for anything positive. Even if it’s a positive it’s “oh he’s a politician and tricked Trob” . It’s ridiculous..I’m not sold on manny from the beginning. I’m in a wait n see: there only 5 CFB I’d be sold day 1 on
Saban
Urban
Dabo
Jimbo
Kelly
In that order. Everyone else has to build a track record

 

[305to954]

Let’s not forget he picked Kellen Winslow over Sean Taylor in the draft

Nooooo..not tha GAWD of talent evaluations Butch

 

[Rellyrell]

But didn’t manny also GA under Bowden including Mickey Andrew’s??. U say Chuck A like he was a slouch of a defensive coach..and he was under Mac brown during a natty run that they lost to Bama. A game that Texas defense shut down Bama with a true freshman QB keeping them in the game. Wasn’t he a big part of it he Miss st splash in a pan top 10 years?..didn’t he quickly turn around a UM defense that was historically bad and had no help from MR O? Wasn’t he hired at another school?

your premise is skewed on this one my boy...now I agree the manny hire was lazy IF it was under the same circumstances as most hires. MR up and retired in DeC. nobody saw that coming. That’s a short time to try and get a search going when u have top candidates already in the swing of the coaching movement. That was a interim HC type situation we was put it.

He was a GA for Bowden for 1 yr. A GA! His FIRST on field experience was at NC St w/ Chuck Amado. That’s where he got his tutelage.

Second, I already touched upon him getting “fired” from Texas, which is why many here ?’d us hiring him as a DC. I actually defended the hire b/c of one yr stints at Miss St. He had one solid yr at UT, and after his defensive scheme got figured out, his defense bled each season. Prior to us, that was his most tenured P5 DC job. That’s y @The Franchise highlighted from the very get-go his scheme is not fundamentally sound & if we face any opponent w/ an offensive heartbeat, or they’ll smoke us. He’s a journeyman DC bouncing from G5 to P5 to G5 to P5.

There’s no skew in my premise, those r facts. U do not hire a coach from a failed regime. That’s the rules of engagement; and if u do, they better be either a great recruiter or have auditioned before to earn that job.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

I guess you don’t realize that even if we did fire them, they are contractually obligated to look for a comparable job and any future salary mitigates, or even eliminates, what Miami would have to pay them....so if that was his plan as you guys say, he chose a handshake agreement with baker instead of the contract that was signed, and both required baker to seek employment elsewhere, but only one guaranteed he wouldn’t be on the staff anymore. so in reality, what would we have done if baker couldn’t have Gotten another job? We would just be stuck with them Because manny wants to do him a solid?

You have no idea what the contract terms were, so just stop right there. Take your L and move on.

 

[305to954]

He was a GA for Bowden for 1 yr. A GA! His FIRST on field experience was at NC St w/ Chuck Amado. That’s where he got his tutelage.

Second, I already touched upon him getting “fired” from Texas, which is why many here ?’d us hiring him as a DC. I actually defended the hire b/c of one yr stints at Miss St. He had one solid yr at UT, and after his defensive scheme got figured out, his defense bled each season. Prior to us, that was his most tenured P5 DC job. That’s y @The Franchise highlighted from the very get-go his scheme is not fundamentally sound & if we face any opponent w/ an offensive heartbeat, or they’ll smoke us. He’s a journeyman DC bouncing from G5 to P5 to G5 to P5.

There’s no skew in my premise, those r facts. U do not hire a coach from a failed regime. That’s the rules of engagement; and if u do, they better be either a great recruiter or have auditioned before to earn that job.

Jimbo was from a failed regime or nah? Yes. But FSU identified him early and made that move. Same with Dabo who was a holdover from a failed regime. So yes brother your premise is wrong on that one.

all I’m saying is there’s no exact formula for this **** when it comes to running the show. You can be one of the best up and comers and fall on your ***. It doesn’t mean your a bad coach or suck at the Xs Os. A lot of it is circumstances, leadership qualities, willingness to correct mistakes and adapt. But A clear organizational plan is key. Being organized and having a clear message that is tangible is key. ..these are key factors that Shannon failed at from a recruiting standpoint aside from 08. And also a player management standpoint. Same with Golden for that matter. When issues pop up can you identify and correct them?? We know manny is willing to identify and make moves and isn’t afraid to go all in on tools available (transfer portal, switching the offensive identity after being a pro style multiple guy and getting new ppl with experience and strong Personality to challenge him even on defense...we won’t know what we have in Manny until after 2021 Imo. And no that doesn’t mean go 11-2. It means steady improvement on the trail and in big matchups. And as of right now I’m not sold. But I have no problem giving him his credit for some things he’s done...he’s the the guy rn..why we still bringing up the genesis of his hiring after the positive szn we just had is beyond me tho

 

[KrazyCane]

Who will win more games next season? Year 5 Butch or year 3 Manny?

that’s not an equal comparison bc every team FIU plays the talent is going to either be equal or better. 90% of the teams MiamI play in this weak conference has less talent than Miami... any time Manny plays a team with better talent or comparable talent, even if the opposing team is still less talented overall, he loses. What win does Manny have that can compare to Butchs FIU team beating his Miami team?

 

[Rellyrell]

This isn’t at all skewed to make your point.

I stand corrected.

How? Show me where I was wrong?

I mean it’s not like there’s not a billion + 1 examples of why internal hires are made & the justification of them. Smh. I even touched on why it made sense on how we hired Coker; the hindsight is 20/20. If u or anyone else is justifying or saying that hiring Diaz after the debacle of 2017 that carried over to 2018 with not doing ONE **** coaching search was not the epitome of lazy, then we legit have nothing to talk about.

Diaz can win a title & I will still say it was a lazy hire, but turned out to be a good hire. The two are not synonymous.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

And that’s the way we should look at it. It’s a win win. If Manny is the answer good , if he’s not him and Blake are gone. With 2-3 good classes for the next coach.

Im not sure if manny is the guy but I’m rooting for him , he’s at least trying more than any other recent coach.

Either way I’m not stressing, I’ve wasted the last 15 years watching this **** show, what’s two more years?

Let’s say Manny succeeds, I still want to get rid of Blake on general principle, malpractice really, and get us a real AD.

I’ve been wanting Blake gone for years now. I mean it’s fairly well known that he had to be forced to fire gluten after Clemson, he wanted to wait until after the season. There’s plenty of other reasons to fire him, the athletic department is not in great shape

 

[305to954]

Theres actually two in here defending him though. Literally the only two on earth. But I’m done here , I can’t argue with mopes and slurpers, I only have so much strength.

I’m guessing I’m one of them defending...is it manny or Blake ?? I can’t keep track...but really I’m not defending either. Feeling about Blake are a totally different discussion..I’m tryna figure out why it’s being brought up rn..manny has been here 2 szns..5-7..8-3. A seemingly upward trend..this is like a Clemson fan bringing up how Dabo was a lazy hire back when

 

[305to954]

Let’s say Manny succeeds, I still want to get rid of Blake on general principle, malpractice really, and get us a real AD.

I’ve been wanting Blake gone for years now. I mean it’s fairly well known that he had to be forced to fire gluten after Clemson, he wanted to wait until after the season. There’s plenty of other reasons to fire him, the athletic department is not in great shape

Exactly. They acting the two can’t be mutually exclusive. IF manny succeeds it will despite blakey

 

[canesthing3]

Lol ah good to see the mopes have settled back in.

I guess I’m in the middle of this argument. It definitely happened too fast and the “process” was laughable. That being said, I think Manny can win here and I’m willing to see how it plays out. He’s done some things well and needs to improve in other areas. Not surprising for a first time HC.
The thing about hiring a DC from a failed regime makes me laugh though. There were a lot of y’all that wanted Manny to be the coach after Richt. Maybe it wasn’t expected to happen so soon but let’s not act like the idea of Manny for HC wasn’t discussed on here beforehand.

As for the Manny can’t recruit thing, how do you all explain the 2 classes he’s brought in? Or do the HCs only get credit for recruiting if they are coaching at another school?

The Manny’s D gets lit up by good offenses is silly too. I don’t think y’all watch much college football. Good offenses light up “good” defenses every week. Y’all are just committed to your take and act like giving up points and yards to good offenses is just a Miami problem. It’s not.

At the end of the day, I’m willing to give Manny a chance and let it play out. He’s made mistakes but he’s done what he can to correct him and I like where we are heading. Was he the right hire? Idk. Time will tell. But forgive me for not trusting the brain trust of CIS’ opinion on coaches. Track record suspect af

 

[Rellyrell]

Jimbo was from a failed regime or nah? Yes. But FSU identified him early and made that move. Same with Dabo who was a holdover from a failed regime. So yes brother your premise is wrong on that one.

all I’m saying is there’s no exact formula for this **** when it comes to running the show. You can be one of the best up and comers and fall on your ***. It doesn’t mean your a bad coach or suck at the Xs Os. A lot of it is circumstances, leadership qualities, willingness to correct mistakes and adapt. But A clear organizational plan is key. Being organized and having a clear message that is tangible is key. ..these are key factors that Shannon failed at from a recruiting standpoint aside from 08. And also a player management standpoint. Same with Golden for that matter. When issues pop up can you identify and correct them?? We know manny is willing to identify and make moves and isn’t afraid to go all in on tools available (transfer portal, switching the offensive identity after being a pro style multiple guy and getting new ppl with experience and strong Personality to challenge him even on defense...we won’t know what we have in Manny until after 2021 Imo. And no that doesn’t mean go 11-2. It means steady improvement on the trail and in big matchups. And as of right now I’m not sold. But I have no problem giving him his credit for some things he’s done...he’s the the guy rn..why we still bringing up the genesis of his hiring after the positive szn we just had is beyond me tho

Maybe U’re confusing what I’m referring to.

This is not about Manny; this is about Blake James. But let’s go w/ Jimbo for a second.

I said the rules of engagement is that u don’t hire from a failed regime, BUT IF U DO, that guy better be a good recruiter or have auditioned for the role.

So not only did Jimbo learn under Saban (and I’m saying Saban b/c that was his most tenured position as Saban picked him as his OC when he took the LSU job), but Jimbo was a top 10 recruiter in the nation while at FSU! Lol.

Again, Manny fit NOTHING. Not only was he from a failed regime, HE ABSOLUTELY SUCKED AS A RECRUITER BRO! Lol. So let’s recap;

Championship experience as a DC at ANY previous spot? Nope

Played the game before? Nope

Stable DC career? Nope

Hired from a thriving, healthy regime? Nope

Previous HC experience, even on an interim basis? Nope

Great recruiter? Nope

Great developer of talent? Nope

Oh, but he was better than our worst DC in the history of the program....yet somehow, under Manny’s watch, we’ve set unprecedented marks in program’s history from a defensive standpoint.

Oh, but let’s him credit for staff turnover; but wait a minute...didn’t I hear the reason why we keep having problems b/c of the attrition of the roster & constant staff turnover??

But he’s fixing the problem....but wait, in order to fix the problem, that means u created a problem.

Interesting how that works.

U see; when u do ur due diligence, u don’t have to go through all of this. Blake James didn’t. He literally got conned into paying $7m for an unproven product. Now Manny may become our best coach in history; and frankly I’m hoping he is b/c I’m tired of “building champions”....that still has chit to do w/ an incompetent AD who chose to use a gift & chit the bed w/ it.

 

[305to954]

Lol ah good to see the mopes have settled back in.

I guess I’m in the middle of this argument. It definitely happened too fast and the “process” was laughable. That being said, I think Manny can win here and I’m willing to see how it plays out. He’s done some things well and needs to improve in other areas. Not surprising for a first time HC.
The thing about hiring a DC from a failed regime makes me laugh though. There were a lot of y’all that wanted Manny to be the coach after Richt. Maybe it wasn’t expected to happen so soon but let’s not act like the idea of Manny for HC wasn’t discussed on here beforehand.

As for the Manny can’t recruit thing, how do you all explain the 2 classes he’s brought in? Or do the HCs only get credit for recruiting if they are coaching at another school?

The Manny’s D gets lit up by good offenses is silly too. I don’t think y’all watch much college football. Good offenses light up “good” defenses every week. Y’all are just committed to your take and act like giving up points and yards to good offenses is just a Miami problem. It’s not.

At the end of the day, I’m willing to give Manny a chance and let it play out. He’s made mistakes but he’s done what he can to correct him and I like where we are heading. Was he the right hire? Idk. Time will tell. But forgive me for not trusting the brain trust of CIS’ opinion on coaches. Track record suspect af

Did someone say Butch Da Gawd?

 

[305to954]

Maybe U’re confusing what I’m referring to.

This is not about Manny; this is about Blake James. But let’s go w/ Jimbo for a second.

I said the rules of engagement is that u don’t hire from a failed regime, BUT IF U DO, that guy better be a good recruiter or have auditioned for the role.

So not only did Jimbo learned under Saban (and I’m saying Saban b/c that was his most tenured position as Saban picked him as his OC when he took the LSU job), but Jimbo was a top 10 recruiter in the nation while at FSU! Lol.

Again, Manny fit NOTHING. Not only was he from a failed regime, HE ABSOLUTELY SUCKED AS A RECRUITER BRO! Lol. So let’s recap;

Championship experience as a DC at ANY previous spot? Nope

Played the game before? Nope

Stable DC career? Nope

Hired from a thriving, healthy regime? Nope

Previous HC experience, even on an interim basis? Nope

Great recruiter? Nope

Great developer of talent? Nope

Oh, but he was better than our worst DC in the history of the program....yet somehow, under Manny’s watch, we’ve set unprecedented marks in program’s history from a defensive standpoint.

Oh, but let’s him credit for staff turnover; but wait a minute...didn’t I hear the season why we keep having problems b/c of the attrition of the roster & constant staff turnover??

But he’s fixing the problem....but wait, in order to fix the problem, that means u created a problem.

Interesting how that works.

U see; when u do ur due diligence, u don’t have to go through all of this. Blake James didn’t. He literally got conned into paying $7m for an unproven product. Now Manny may become our best coach in history; and frankly I’m hoping he is b/c I’m tired of “building champions”....that still has chit to do w/ an incompetent AD who chose to use a gift & chit the bed w/ it.

Bro...again jimbo was apart of a failed regime whose lack talent acquisition on offense being a big part of that decline..same with Dabo. U bring up saban..again that’s skewed point because I can point to multiple guys from under sabans tree who ain’t worth ****..

so whatever formula u wanna use really there is no guarantee..there have been programs with more resources then us prove this to be the true. this thinking has never ever been a thing in reality. You lay out a outline of what u want, get that guy and hopefully he can guide the ship..now you talk about lazy, tryna recreate success from another program by hiring a underling is as lazy as it can get. You see at the NFL level also. By this theory Ole Goat never sees success after Clev.

now like I said before, the Blakey convo and manny convo can be and are mutually exclusive. The process of how manny got here doesn’t doesn’t guarantee he’s gonna fail. But if he is successful it also doesn’t mean Blakey is a good AD

 

[Fluffhead]

How? Show me where I was wrong?

I mean it’s not like there’s not a billion + 1 examples of why internal hires are made & the justification of them. Smh. I even touched on why it made sense on how we hired Coker; the hindsight is 20/20. If u or anyone else is justifying or saying that hiring Diaz after the debacle of 2017 that carried over to 2018 with not doing ONE **** coaching search was not the epitome of lazy, then we legit have nothing to talk about.

Diaz can win a title & I will still say it was a lazy hire, but turned out to be a good hire. The two are not synonymous.

Let’s not forget he did just about the same thing with the baseball program. DiMare at least looks like he is putting together a more talented team, but he hired a coach from a program that missed the CWS in back to back seasons, the first time they missed the CWS in 40+ years. Whether DiMare can stop over managing and get a fundamentally sound team to match the talent and class rankings is tbd.

 

[Canesfan3234]

While knowing jack about sports , other than hockey. What sounds more Miami than hockey?

Hockey is Still the only team national championship in 20 years at the school.

 

[305to954]

Let’s not forget he did just about the same thing with the baseball program. DiMare at least looks like he is putting together a more talented team, but he hired a coach from a program that missed the CWS in back to back seasons, the first time they missed the CWS in 40+ years. Whether DiMare can stop over managing and get a fundamentally sound team to match the talent and class rankings is tbd.

**** that’s a helluva reach. If Miami baseball brought in 100% of its signees that wouldn’t be a problem at all tbh. It’s a whole different issue on the baseball side of things with is own problems

 

[Cribby]

Let’s say Manny succeeds, I still want to get rid of Blake on general principle, malpractice really, and get us a real AD.

I’ve been wanting Blake gone for years now. I mean it’s fairly well known that he had to be forced to fire gluten after Clemson, he wanted to wait until after the season. There’s plenty of other reasons to fire him, the athletic department is not in great shape

The position is way too big for him.

 

[Fluffhead]

**** that’s a helluva reach. If Miami baseball brought in 100% of its signees that wouldn’t be a problem at all tbh. It’s a whole different issue on the baseball side of things with is own problems

That’s a complete straw man. There is not a single baseball program that gets 100% of its signees on campus. There are also plenty of other private schools that have been successful. We didn’t follow Vanderbilt’s endowment model.

It is not a reach even a little to say we missed the tournament two years and still hired a coach from it. It is literally what happened.