On CharMar "Marty" Brown...

[kyle_schick]

What I'm saying is these little "what people miss" things you're mentioning are pretty irrelevant.

Fletcher - 5.2 YPC & 7.3 YPR
Martinez - 6..2 YPC & 12.2 YPR

If Fletcher's a better receiver & in pass pro - everyone would still want Martinez on the field ahead of Fletcher because Martinez is the guy who makes plays.

Does the RB make plays? That's all that matters.

Fletcher is a good RB but Martinez had better patience and vision which is required to run successfully in the Mario offense.

Fletcher running straight into the guards *** in a 15-man box isn't going to work.

 

[bshaw28]

I’ve grown to love your Walton hate

In Walton's defense - he was amazing against Non-P4 teams.

Unfortunately those Non-P4 games gave everyone - Coaches, Fans, NFL Teams, Himself - a false sense of his abilities vs bigger/stronger/faster P4 teams.

Walton was a poor athlete (see his RAS) who simply struggled to compete at the P4 level (same thing as @DMoney pointed out with Parrish. And Walton's ypc speaks for itself)

In the end - it's the coaches fault for giving Walton the ball so much. Walton tried his hardest and did his best with the limited athleticism he had.

Mark Richt is really the one I have beef with.

 

[DMoney]

It’s amazing the NFL valued such a bad athlete with bad production. Maybe it was his sparking personality.

 

[JHallCanes]

 

[bshaw28]

It’s amazing the NFL valued such a bad athlete with bad production. Maybe it was his sparking personality.

Or maybe it was a mistake. Teams F up picks the draft every year. It's not amazing - it's common.

3 main problems with you argument:

1) Your argument assumes the NFL never messes up on where they draft players.

Walton is just 1 example in a seas of NFL busts that happen in every draft

2) You never mention how good/bad Walton actually played in the NFL

That's because his production easily shows he wasn't worth a 4th RD pick and definitely wasn't a "starting" quality RB.

3) Take out "Mark Walton" in any argument you make and substitute in "Kalen Ballage" and it's the exact same thing.

Both were 4th RD picks (that shouldn't have been) that started games for the Dolphins (but never should have). Both were nothing more than journeyman RB's. Myles Gaskin became the Dolphins starter after them was easily better (check the stats) and should've been starting over both (given the Dolphins limited options) in 2019.

But you never address any of these facts.

 

[DMoney]

Or maybe it was a mistake. Teams F up picks the draft every year. It's not amazing - it's common.

3 main problems with you argument:

1) Your argument assumes the NFL never messes up on where they draft players.

Walton is just 1 example in a seas of NFL busts that happen in every draft

2) You never mention how good/bad Walton actually played in the NFL

That's because his production easily shows he wasn't worth a 4th RD pick and definitely wasn't a "starting" quality RB.

3) Take out "Mark Walton" in any argument you make and substitute in "Kalen Ballage" and it's the exact same thing.

Both were 4th RD picks (that shouldn't have been) that started games for the Dolphins (but never should have). Both were nothing more than journeyman RB's. Myles Gaskin became the Dolphins starter after them was easily better (check the stats) and should've been starting over both (given the Dolphins limited options) in 2019.

But you never address any of these facts.

But he was starting, and the reason he dropped out of the league was strictly character.

The starter on the worst team in the NFL is not a mediocre college talent- no matter how obsessively you try to make this argument happen.

Only 2% of players get drafted. Less than 25% of four stars. And a much smaller percentage of that actually starts multiple NFL games.

There are so many layers of professional evaluation that happen before someone starts an NFL game. But maybe all those guys (and an NFL OC in Thomas Brown) just missed the @bshaw28 posts on why Walton actually sucked.

 

[bshaw28]

But he was starting, and the reason he dropped out of the league was strictly character.

The starter on the worst team in the NFL is not a mediocre college talent- no matter how obsessively you try to make this argument happen.

Only 2% of players get drafted. Less than 25% of four stars. And a much smaller percentage of that actually starts multiple NFL games.

There are so many layers of professional evaluation that happen before someone starts an NFL game. But maybe all those guys (and an NFL OC in Thomas Brown) just missed the @bshaw28 posts on why Walton actually sucked.

Your points only address what people "thought" of Walton's production & athleticism. But you never address what Walton's production & athleticism actually were (both were poor).

You seem to be saying that is was correct for Walton to be a 4th RD pick NOT because of how Walton played in the NFL, BUT because NFL teams put so much time & resources into scouting (which I agree with) that they're never wrong (which I disagree with). Am I reading that right?

@DMoney - Am I reading it right that you don't think NFL teams ever mess up their draft picks? I'd say they often do.

Walton's talent is a sliding scale:

1) Compared to ALL college RB's - Walton was a very good. You're 100% correct there
2) Compared to ALL starting P4 RB's - Walton was average (Bad runner, good receiver - look at the stats)
3) Compared to ALL drafted RB's - Walton's below average. He's a UFA-type talent (look at the stats)
4) Compared to ALL starting NFL RB's - Walton was bad. Obviously not a starting talent (look at the stats)

@DMoney - if you disagree with 2-4 you should have no problem naming at least 1 P4 RB in the last 20 years who had similar college production & athleticism that had a good NFL career.

I'm just asking for 1 over 20 years - can you do that?

 

[twes.305]

Some yall are some pessimistic. “Fletcher already is what he is” like he hasn’t had injury problems during the 2 offseason he’s been here. How bout u let the guy who is going into his 3rd year get a good offseason in before yall start claiming he is what he is.

 

[bshaw28]

Sorry, I forgot to add Yearby to the P4 YPC list before.

So of Miami's last 12 leading rushers, Walton has BY FAR the lowest YPC vs P4 teams.

@DMoney - Have you been able to find a statistical Walton comp yet?

 

[gogeta4]

In Walton's defense - he was amazing against Non-P4 teams.

Unfortunately those Non-P4 games gave everyone - Coaches, Fans, NFL Teams, Himself - a false sense of his abilities vs bigger/stronger/faster P4 teams.

Walton was a poor athlete (see his RAS) who simply struggled to compete at the P4 level (same thing as @DMoney pointed out with Parrish. And Walton's ypc speaks for itself)

In the end - it's the coaches fault for giving Walton the ball so much. Walton tried his hardest and did his best with the limited athleticism he had.

Mark Richt is really the one I have beef with.

View attachment 325107

think fast what was Bucky Irvings ras?.

 

[Juanmanuel V]

Yup its his running style.

He is very similar to Ollie Gordon i'd say thats his trajectory.

I could see him having these same numbers combine wise and projections.

Ollie Gordon II Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

Want to see if he can add that little more umph that Gordon has finishing runs this year and Fletcher goes against better defenses in the acc.

ID EXPECT IN THAT 4.6-4.65 RANGE.

Fletcher ‘s Value in the Pro’s is His Pass Blocking for QB is Elite & Can Catch the Ball. Those Two abilities & Skill will keep him Playing a long time.
*There Use to be Player Name Terry Kirby Virginia / Dolphins /49ers Who literally was Blocking & Catching that 3rd Down Back May have been Invented for. Not nearly as good running the ball or Blocking but Hung around the NFL a Long ,Long time.

 

[Juanmanuel V]

Fletcher is a good RB but Martinez had better patience and vision which is required to run successfully in the Mario offense.

Fletcher running straight into the guards *** in a 15-man box isn't going to work.

Fletcher is a good RB but Martinez had better patience and vision which is required to run successfully in the Mario offense.

Fletcher running straight into the guards *** in a 15-man box isn't going to work.

Wait Some of the Things Like running into Guard May not be all Fletcher Fault With Mario’s Tight alignment to not get Tackle behind the Line of Scrimmage.
This Hampered Martinez until The Louisville were he seemd to figure it out.


I Wonder how Fletcher would do Behind those Alabama & Georgia types O-line before ‘24.
Fletcher was more Physical his Freshman year,But more Elusive Sophomore year.
I prefer that Back I saw Vs NC St,Virginia & Louisvile ‘23 to be Honest. Let Lyle be more Elusive Guy.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Imagine caring this much about Mark Walton.

Mark Walton doesn’t even care this much about Mark Walton.

 

[bshaw28]

think fast what was Bucky Irvings ras?.

Didn't know this off the top of my head, but:

RAS - Irving 2.28 - Walton 4.58
P4 YPC - Irving 5.9 - Walton 3.8
NFL YPC - Irving 5.4 - Walton 3.5

Compared to other NFL RB's - It's the killer combo of Walton's lack of production AND lack of athleticism that makes him a one-of-a-kind unicorn.

@gogeta4 I'll ask you the same thing I ask @DMoney - Prove me wrong....name just 1 RB with similar numbers.

 

[Colombie]

Some yall are some pessimistic. “Fletcher already is what he is” like he hasn’t had injury problems during the 2 offseason he’s been here. How bout u let the guy who is going into his 3rd year get a good offseason in before yall start claiming he is what he is.

This is what makes me chuckle. People are not factoring in that Fletcher can improve. They are also not factoring in that Lyle can make a huge jump from year one to year two.
Marty looks very good and can also improve with a better OL and better players around him.

I mean yes, people around here have the right be pessimistic and cynical but at least admit things can change for the better too. It is not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[JHallCanes]

Imagine caring this much about Mark Walton.

Mark Walton doesn’t even care this much about Mark Walton.

This is like watching Ronnie and Sammi from Jersey Shore

 

[gogeta4]

Didn't know this off the top of my head, but:

RAS - Irving 2.28 - Walton 4.58
P4 YPC - Irving 5.9 - Walton 3.8
NFL YPC - Irving 5.4 - Walton 3.5

Compared to other NFL RB's - It's the killer combo of Walton's lack of production AND lack of athleticism that makes him a one-of-a-kind unicorn.

@gogeta4 I'll ask you the same thing I ask @DMoney - Prove me wrong....name just 1 RB with similar numbers.

I asked you his RAS....you swerve the car right out of the lane.

Bucky Irving ras score barely would have him elgible to play football.

Hes a pretty good player so far.

 

[E1k]

I asked you his RAS....you swerve the car right out of the lane.

Bucky Irving ras score barely would have him elgible to play football.

Hes a pretty good player so far.

A good thread on the RB topic

@gogeta4 your bucky point is the 2nd tweet in the thread, good point but I don’t think ras should be the end all end all be all for anyone even tho it is a very good baseline for a bunch of positions ceiling and floor

 

[cway313]

A good thread on the RB topic

@gogeta4 your bucky point is the 2nd tweet in the thread, good point but I don’t think ras should be the end all end all be all for anyone even tho it is a very good baseline for a bunch of positions ceiling and floor

Kyren Williams is another that bombed RAS and it doesn't matter.

 

[bshaw28]

I asked you his RAS....you swerve the car right out of the lane.

Bucky Irving ras score barely would have him elgible to play football.

Hes a pretty good player so far.

You're helping make my point.

RAS - You named Irving (2.28 RAS). I'll throw in Dalvin Cook (4.66 RAS). @cway313 said Kyren Williams (3.47 RAS)

See how multiple people can quickly name a good RB with a similar RAS score to Walton?

PRODUCTION - Now name just name a good P4 RB that has a similar 3.8 YPC vs P4 teams.

See how no one can name any RB?

I'm not swerving out of the lane - Walton's lack of production is the lane I've always been in.

Walton's lack of athleticism is just one contributing factor in his lack of production, but his running style and lack off self-awareness (he ran like he THOUGHT he was a great athlete) is the main factor.