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Miami's NFL talent and getting to the next level

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Boarcane said:
Kids want to play at home. They also want to get to the next level and win. It’s truly that simple. Yes, everyone needs to eat. Again, beat Alabama 🙌 We are in the conversation for every recruit we want. Fact
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Do you really think kids want to play at home or experience the "its better somewhere else"?

I think our Canes have a bigger hurdle to keep athletes in SoFL than some realize...

@Coach Macho @gogeta4 what have you seen with your athletes? Are they ok with staying or is the pull to "see the world" strong??
 
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DMoney said:
If you take away the elite QB and DL talents, Clemson is Virginia Tech during the Beamer years. Well-coached, tough, ultimately a non-factor.

First and foremost, Clemson is a dynasty because they because they have elite players at the two most important positions.
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The triumvirate of success in college football is simple...the DL matters, sure, but its behind...1) Big Time Head Coach, 2) Big Time Coordinators, and 3) A level up quarterback (which gets into a debate of fighter pilot v. bus driver...you need the fighter pilot).

Before Barton + Bud went the way of the Dodo, they outlined this in a good podcast. It was a conversation about Clemson and...North Carolina as teams that have this (for UNC, they are close). The increase in recruiting comes later. See: Clemson, who is JUST starting to see the fruit of their labor on recruiting offensive line.

DL, WR come after QB in today's college football.
 
As coincidence would have it, here’s a list of the most draft picks by position from every ACC school in the last 20 years that Packer and Durham compiled this morning:

(disclaimer: I was writing this down as quickly as possible but believe I got it pretty close)

QB: Louisville. 5
RB: Miami. 10
WR: Clemson. 15
TE: Miami. 11
OL: Miami. 13 (we were tied with another team but I missed it.
DL: Semenholes. 23.
LB: Miami. 10.
DB: Miami/VT. 23
P/K. GT. 3
The 2 I highlighted were a couple of note.

As some have argued, seems we’ve had plenty of talent but the results on the field haven’t lived up to it.
 
DMoney said:
If you take away the elite QB and DL talents, Clemson is Virginia Tech during the Beamer years. Well-coached, tough, ultimately a non-factor.

First and foremost, Clemson is a dynasty because they because they have elite players at the two most important positions.
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At first blush I thought this was crazy but I can see what you’re saying. They both found system fit players. That said, Clemson still recruits higher stars on average than VT did under Beamer. Beamer would recruit virtually all 3 stars with a few 4 stars scattered in. Then they would coach and develop the **** out of them, especially on defense. Beamer and Foster are a different cultural breed from Miami but I always wondered what they could’ve done if they were sitting in Coral Gables.
 
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305to954 said:
**Butches Scribe is more accurate
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423Hurricane said:
As coincidence would have it, here’s a list of the most draft picks by position from every ACC school in the last 20 years that Packer and Durham compiled this morning:

(disclaimer: I was writing this down as quickly as possible but believe I got it pretty close)

QB: Louisville. 5
RB: Miami. 10
WR: Clemson. 15
TE: Miami. 11
OL: Miami. 13 (we were tied with another team but I missed it.
DL: Semenholes. 23.
LB: Miami. 10.
DB: Miami/VT. 23
P/K. GT. 3
The 2 I highlighted were a couple of note.

As some have argued, seems we’ve had plenty of talent but the results on the field haven’t lived up to it.
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It’s also a good example of @Ethnicsands point that draft picks don’t always equate to overall team talent. If you have one NFL lineman playing with four other bums on the o-line, your line won’t be good. If there’s a big gap between your best handful of players and the rest of your roster, you’re likely not going to get great on-field results. Miami has done a good job of recruiting/developing a small handful of NFL type players but has hindered the team’s success by teaming them with subpar team mates and using them in poor schemes.

I also firmly believe that Miami’s insistence on being an NFL farm system instead of being the best college football team they could be hampered the program significantly. If you weren’t a 6’4” pocket passer, Miami wouldn’t want you at QB. They focused way too much on things NFL teams care about and missed out on a ton of really great college players because they didn’t fit our “pro style” mold.
 
RVACane said:
At first blush I thought this was crazy but I can see what you’re saying. They both found system fit players. That said, Clemson still recruits higher stars on average than VT did under Beamer. Beamer would recruit virtually all 3 stars with a few 4 stars scattered in. Then they would coach and develop the **** out of them, especially on defense. Beamer and Foster are a different cultural breed from Miami but I always wondered what they could’ve done if they were sitting in Coral Gables.
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Virginia Tech never competed nationally like Clemson does now with the exception of the Mike Vick years. They took off in the 90’s when Miami went on probation and did a good job at taking over a joke Big East conference. They rarely played big OOC games and managed to win at a good rate against admittedly weak P5 competition. They’d usually get invited to a decent bowl game and get smoked but considering the talent level, Beamer and Foster did a great job of maximizing what they had.
 
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DTP said:
Virginia Tech never competed nationally like Clemson does now with the exception of the Mike Vick years. They took off in the 90’s when Miami went on probation and did a good job at taking over a joke Big East conference. They rarely played big OOC games and managed to win at a good rate against admittedly weak P5 competition. They’d usually get invited to a decent bowl game and get smoked but considering the talent level, Beamer and Foster did a great job of maximizing what they had.
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Yeah they’re Clemson Ultra Light.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
I will repeat what I said in the other thread:



If we want an accurate estimation of how we’re doing, we need to compare ourselves to other teams with similar signing day rankings, say 5 to 7 teams in the same ranking range over the discussed time period.

The comparison may not be to our favor, I don’t know. But comparing top draft choices for Miami to teams like Alabama, Ohio State, et al, it’s just not an accurate comparison, when they are signing top three classes every year.
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I think the common mistakes when making these "NFL talent" comparisons is

1) Always comparing ourselves "up" to Alabama, Ohio St. like you said - and never comparing ourselves "down" to places like UNC & VT
2) Not understanding sliding scales - for example:

The talent difference between a 1st Rd pick and a 4th Rd pick is huge. The talent difference between a 4th Rd pick and a 7th Rd pick is small - even though both are 3 rounds apart.

The #1 raked team in the polls is usually much better than the #15th ranked team. The #15 ranked team and the #30 ranked team (if you look at the 5th in other receiving votes) are usually pretty close - even though both are 15 spots apart.

Similarly - the #1 ranked recruiting class (Ex. Alabama) is much better than the #15 class (Ex. Miami) - but there's not a big difference between the #15 ranked class and the #30 (Ex. UNC) - even though both are 15 spots apart.

I'm comparing Miami to UNC & VT

Their recruiting classes ranking 2008 - 2018 was generally in the range of Miami #15, VT #25, UNC #30

In the 2010-2021 NFL Drafts - Miami crushes in overall players taken, but the Gap between Day 1&2 "difference maker" type talents is very small

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We like to think our talent is way above teams like UNC & VT - but the reality is it's pretty close.

Another scale tipper is UNC's definitely had better QB's, and VT probably has too.
 
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DMoney said:
If you take away the elite QB and DL talents, Clemson is Virginia Tech during the Beamer years. Well-coached, tough, ultimately a non-factor.

First and foremost, Clemson is a dynasty because they because they have elite players at the two most important positions.
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I think it started with the coach and his knowledge of the model. I know you know this but if you don't have the coaching staff you're doomed to underperform. Underperform and you lose your grip on the top players. Right now our grip on top players has loosened tremendously and we're still underperforming. If that doesn't change the grip on top players will slip completely. We can't afford to continue to trot out bad coaching staffs.
 
Another stat providing further evidence we're a program that's been 'Lost in Translation.'

The numbers don't fit the program's lack of competitiveness in four of those five years.
 
DMoney said:
My point exactly. What was different in the Vick years?
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Absolutely, a game changer at quarterback can overcome a talent gap. We saw what happened when Deshaun Watson’s Clemson team beat a vastly superior Alabama team for the title. You swap quarterbacks and the game is a blowout.
 
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