Looking ahead

[mirvin88]

Either way team will be better this year than last. We have more experience, we will have a better OC as none can be worse than what we had and schedule is even more favorable. If we can kick and punt we should squeak out 8 wins despite any coaching ineptitude.

Says every Canes fan every year for the past two decades.

 

[Astcloud11]

Your post is a great example of what I talk about often. People claim a discussion of talent creates an excuse for coaching. For the millionth time, that’s false. It doesn’t. But your head in the sand mindset on talent is part of why the fan base is continuously surprised by results and fails to understand what’s wrong.

My head is clear. If you think Mark Richt went from perennial contender in the SEC East as a HC for 10+ years, to not knowing how to evaluate enough talent to field the core of a team that loses to FIU, then I really can't argue with you.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Evaluations and development go hand in hand.

We have several kids on the roster who were recruited by successful programs. Were they all wrong on each of those kids too or did we just fail to play them to their strengths?

Not every kid is Ahmmon or Duke and will be good wherever they go. They’re the exception, not the rule.

Development happens when kids work. Players from all over the place wind up in the first round of the nfl draft and on the all pro team. The idea that development is some special sauce is overrated and misleading. It’s a fuzzy way to avoid understanding what’s wrong. How does the same staff develop one kid and not another, at Um or elsewhere? Culture matters - work, mostly. And there is some skill training, film breakdown. But much of what we call development is what happens when kids are prepared and put in position to make plays. They look better. But the NFL takes kids from UM when we suck, and it skips kids from Alabama when they’re great. They’re not fooled.

As for the kids we took - there’s a massive logical flaw in your question. People say we took a kid from Alabama and look, Alabama kids perform. Except that is a myth. Alabama takes kids who underperform all the time. They just get enough top kids and move on from the underperformers. Since it’s pretty likely the ones we get from them are not their top top kids, it’s equally likely that the expected miss rate on any kids we get from alabama is higher than their average miss rate, which is still going to be somewhat high.

Point is, who knows. Better culture would be my emphasis after evals.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

Unless someone replaces the scrubs at QB, expect more going through the motions and an OC losing his mind on the sidelines.

You guys always ragging on the QBs are clueless. You expect the QB to turn water into wine with a terrible Oline that Tom Brady couldn't work with.

FYI, Brady has thrown for < 56% in 7 games this year. Not surprising NE has their worst offensive line in a decade.

Saying our QBs suck is just a typical disgruntled fan venting without an understanding of the game. We won't know what we really have until the offensive line improves dramatically regardless of who is at QB.

 

[Ethnicsands]

My head is clear. If you think Mark Richt went from perennial contender in the SEC East as a HC for 10+ years, to not knowing how to evaluate enough talent to field the core of a team that loses to FIU, then I really can't argue with you.

Well, your logic is pretty awful if that’s your framework. The results are clear, even if you twist the claim to try to create a straw man. I didn’t say what you claim, but let’s ignore your weak rhetorical skills.

Richt had significant recruiting resources at UGA he didn’t have at UM. He had different areas he covered, different Hs coaches he listened to, different staff, also. It’s quite clear the talent he brought in in many instances was poorly evaluated. But Richt wasn’t awful - I’d say he was decent at culture and talent. But he had one single class that got his attention, after which he checked out.

Meanwhile, manny has never been known as a recruiter or evaluator. Or cultural leader other than baubles and hype.

The point isn’t that our coaching has been okay - anything but that. But you’re delusional if you think evals aren’t part of the issue.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Brevins the only possible candidate.

My guess also. Mallory has the size and speed if the light goes on.

 

[Ethnicsands]

You guys always ragging on the QBs are clueless. You expect the QB to turn water into wine with a terrible Oline that Tom Brady couldn't work with.

FYI, Brady has thrown for < 56% in 7 games this year. Not surprising NE has their worst offensive line in a decade.

Saying our QBs suck is just a typical disgruntled fan venting without an understanding of the game. We won't know what we really have until the offensive line improves dramatically regardless of who is at QB.

No amount of observations of white sheep can disprove the existence of black sheep. So it is possible they are all great. We just have no reason to think so at this time.

 

[Ethnicsands]

I think we'd be helped tremendously at OL if Scaife could kick back inside to G. Rivers might be the guy to help us with that situation. My ideal situation would be for Rivers to be so good, he takes Nelson's spot at LT, and we flip Nelson to RT and he sticks there. *Given what we have now w/o grad transfers/portal additions* - my ideal OL L/R would be Rivers/Scaife/Gaynor/Donaldson/Nelson. Campbell, Clark, Reed are likely your depth off the bench. OL needs some serious upgrades across the board, though - even with a new system that might take pressure off of them compared to Enos' old system.

And I know we've beat up Nelson, deservedly so, but a year of PT, an offseason of development, and a new offensive scheme that doesn't make him pass protect for more than 5 seconds might help him reach his potential. I think if Rivers is who I think he is, it will be between Nelson/Campbell for that RT spot. If Donaldson doesn't come back with a purpose, Clark might take his spot too.

At K - take Baxa away and slot in Price at this point. I think he's the best PK on the roster at the moment. That could certainly be amended by adding Jose Borregales as a transfer...I think he would take the job almost as soon as he arrives.

At TE - don't underestimate Hodges. I don't think he's the level of Jordan/Mallory for sure, but he looked good catching 2 TDs against B-C this season. I think he's got some potential. He'll be back as a RS Freshman as well. Polendey/Irvin are both what they are, probably won't get much better. I hope Mammarelli is better than expected. I think his skill set/talent level is similar to Hodges.

I'm not gonna touch QB or WR...all of those are hard to tell. Could be good, could lead to disaster. Too many variables at both spots.

I am not critical of Nelson. It wss unfair what he was asked to do as a true frosh. We’ll see what he can be in 1-2 years.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Developent blah blah blah ? How do you think players get better man ? Those payers don't just come in immediately and start balling and set records based off of their high school level skills , they get developed , by coaches who know how to develop . You think OSU keeps putting DBs in the league every year based on evaluating and not development ?
Do you think 2019 Joe Burrow is the same Joe Burrow that threw for less than 200 yards against us ? He was developed

We can't look at how players perform at Miami (for obvious reasons) and automatically assume that same performance elsewhere . So I cant really answer that question past assuming , especially when you literally chose the best 3 teams in the nation with stars at their most important positions

I dont know how you can definitely say our roster sucks and is full of missed evals when we have the coaches that we do .

Let the nfl tell us.

 

[jjacks93]

Lack of talent ain't the reason we lost to two group of 5 teams . Period

 

[NC_Canes_11]

Best guesses on what record saves Manny vs dooms him?

Best guess is 8 wins saves him. When you set the bar as low as he did, anything better seems like he has the team on the way up and fits his “rebuild” narrative.

 

[NicKane]

Roster strength:

Defense;
-S: Hall, Bolden, Carter, Frierson, K. Smith [Harrell, Balom, Washington]
-DB: Blades, Ivey, Couch, C. Williams [Clarke]
-LB: Brooks, Huff, McCloud, Joyner, Steed*, Jennings [TAC, Flagg]
-DE: Patchan, Phillips, Cam. Williams, Harvey, Rousseau [Chantz, QW]
-DT: Ford, Silvera, Miller, Blissett, Hunte, Holley [Moise, Roberts]

Notes: Seems okay. Thin at CB, unproven most places, decent talent and potential. Not top level but not a disaster. An injury to a CB would hurt. Need a LB to step up.

Offense:
- OT: Scaife, Herbert, Hillery, Nelson, ElGammel [Rivers, Washington]
-OG/C: Donaldson, Traore, Reed, Clark, Campbell, Gaynor
-TE: Jordan, Mallory, Polendey, Irvin, Hodges [Mammarelli]
-WR: Harley, Wiggins, Pope, Payton [Redding, Daz, Restreppo]
-RB: Harris, Burns [Chaney, Knighton]
-QB: JW, Perry, Tate, Matocha [TVD]
-P/K: Hedley, Baxa

Notes: OL is an issue. TE falls apart after top 2. WR unproven, some talent, lacks depth. RB has talent, but will rely on true frosh. QB missing. Kicker no bueno.

A new OC has to come on, find a QB, work with a bad OL, introduce a spread to a WR room with 4 returning guys, and rely on true frosh RBs. Anyone expecting a miracle here is right - it would tale a miracle.

Good news is next year’s schedule is the worst yet. Hot trash. As bad as we’ll be, no reason we shouldn’t be competitive in all games. Still, talent is unproven, thin and inexperienced. And culture and team commitment are questions. Guess: 6-6

Diaz made his bed by keeping on coaches that haven’t been able to recruit since he got here 4 years ago (hence the unbalanced roster/depth issues) now he has to lay it and luckily for us it’ll only be for year as he’ll be gone next season after going 5-7. Along with Blake being stripped of all football responsibilities and a new football only AD with the BOT will make our next hire. God willing with a little luck maybe, just maybe this time they’ll make the right one!

 

[ThomasM]

You guys always ragging on the QBs are clueless. You expect the QB to turn water into wine with a terrible Oline that Tom Brady couldn't work with.

FYI, Brady has thrown for < 56% in 7 games this year. Not surprising NE has their worst offensive line in a decade.

Saying our QBs suck is just a typical disgruntled fan venting without an understanding of the game. We won't know what we really have until the offensive line improves dramatically regardless of who is at QB.

Bullcrap. We all saw our QB fail miserably WHEN THEY HAD TIME. Yeah, our OL was brutal early on, but to act like they never gave our QBs time is pretty **** stupid. I guess it was the OLs fault Williams couldn't see one DB covering two WRs. It's also their fault for him running like an idiot when we needed to throw a hail mary. Come on. Of course we need our OL to improve, but if you think an improved OL is going to help our QBs between the ears, you are wrong.

By the way, half the sacks our QBs took were ON THEM. Hey look, I have time to run out of bounds and not get rid of the ball. So what if it's a loss of yardage when I can just throw it away because I am WAY outside of the pocket. Yeah, our football IQ at the QB position is garbage. Defend that crap all you want.

 

[NicKane]

I think you're right to some extent , but than I look at a guy like Cager who couldn't put it together at Miami but then goes to UGA and becomes their top receiver. We have some serious talent on this team I just don't think they're getting developed or put into the best position to succeed based on their skill set .

It’s coaching vs corching. At UGa cager received coaching. At miami he received corching. End of story.

 

[siulrc]

With just a decent Kicker and OC we are 9-3. Im usually a pessimists but with just a dependable kicker we would have been 9-3 this year. UF, UNC, GT were all lost by missed FGs.

I know the future doesnt look bright and I would be the 1st to tell you we are nowhere close to being playoff contenders (Clemson, OSU, n LSU are lightyears ahead of us) but we can be in a New years 6 bowl next year. We should have beat UF and beat UVA and they were both in the OB.

even with adding those 3 wins and finishing 9-3 still it would've had been a very deceiving record. the facts are the team faded in the last third of the season with very significant losses to FIU DUKE and L TECH. an argument could be made that we were lucky it was the end of the season because most likely we had lost any other remaining games in the schedule

9-3 its just a number. we saw the on field product and there is no way that any football knowledgeable canes fan would had been satisfied or happy with bragging about a 9-3 record

 

[Astcloud11]

Well, your logic is pretty awful if that’s your framework. The results are clear, even if you twist the claim to try to create a straw man. I didn’t say what you claim, but let’s ignore your weak rhetorical skills.

Richt had significant recruiting resources at UGA he didn’t have at UM. He had different areas he covered, different Hs coaches he listened to, different staff, also. It’s quite clear the talent he brought in in many instances was poorly evaluated. But Richt wasn’t awful - I’d say he was decent at culture and talent. But he had one single class that got his attention, after which he checked out.

Meanwhile, manny has never been known as a recruiter or evaluator. Or cultural leader other than baubles and hype.

The point isn’t that our coaching has been okay - anything but that. But you’re delusional if you think evals aren’t part of the issue.

There is no straw. I'm arguing potential. The team that Richt built, and Diaz inherited, is capable of doing more than what the coaches allowed. No where in my post did I infer that we should be beating playoff teams. But this season was a failure because of the coaches, not because of the talent. No, it isn't JUST the coaches. I think that's the biggest thing you're trying to say, and I'm starting to believe that you think I'm completely dismissing the players in this. No, its more than one factor that goes into a failing program, I'm aware. In order to get the results that we WANT as fans, we DO need to improve our evaluations and overall efforts in bringing the right guys in. But on the flip side, EVEN IF WE DON'T, if we continue the status quo on the type of talent we are bringing in, we are still capable of doing more than whatever the **** we just witnessed offensively. THAT was my point when I said don't give these coaches an excuse.

 

[Artist Formerly Known As]

Development happens when kids work. Players from all over the place wind up in the first round of the nfl draft and on the all pro team. The idea that development is some special sauce is overrated and misleading. It’s a fuzzy way to avoid understanding what’s wrong. How does the same staff develop one kid and not another, at Um or elsewhere? Culture matters - work, mostly. And there is some skill training, film breakdown. But much of what we call development is what happens when kids are prepared and put in position to make plays. They look better. But the NFL takes kids from UM when we suck, and it skips kids from Alabama when they’re great. They’re not fooled.

As for the kids we took - there’s a massive logical flaw in your question. People say we took a kid from Alabama and look, Alabama kids perform. Except that is a myth. Alabama takes kids who underperform all the time. They just get enough top kids and move on from the underperformers. Since it’s pretty likely the ones we get from them are not their top top kids, it’s equally likely that the expected miss rate on any kids we get from alabama is higher than their average miss rate, which is still going to be somewhat high.

Point is, who knows. Better culture would be my emphasis after evals.

In this response development=work=culture, so development does matter. Coaches set the culture of a successful program 99% of the time.

That also speaks to why our kids might not be bad evaluations, but rather bad culture/development. Yes, Bama, OSU miss on guys for a myriad of reasons, but their hit rate is much higher because they already have a culture of success that the kids must follow or they get processed out.

You can’t say it’s just our evals that suck when a good majority of our roster could’ve played at successful programs. The chances of them all being wrong over so many players and so many years is miniscule.

 

[JOE'CANE]

even with adding those 3 wins and finishing 9-3 still it would've had been a very deceiving record. the facts are the team faded in the last third of the season with very significant losses to FIU DUKE and L TECH. an argument could be made that we were lucky it was the end of the season because most likely we had lost any other remaining games in the schedule

9-3 its just a number. we saw the on field product and there is no way that any football knowledgeable canes fan would had been satisfied or happy with bragging about a 9-3 record

Definately not bragging or happy!!! We should be at 10-11 wins every year in the Coastal. 9-3 is a number, a number that would have got us into the OB. We are NOT going 6-6 next year.

 

[Ethnicsands]

In this response development=work=culture, so development does matter. Coaches set the culture of a successful program 99% of the time.

That also speaks to why our kids might not be bad evaluations, but rather bad culture/development. Yes, Bama, OSU miss on guys for a myriad of reasons, but their hit rate is much higher because they already have a culture of success that the kids must follow or they get processed out.

You can’t say it’s just our evals that suck when a good majority of our roster could’ve played at successful programs. The chances of them all being wrong over so many players and so many years is miniscule.

I have never said it is ‘just evals.’ I have specifically and consistently said it’s ‘all of the above.’

However, even through our dark years, kids who work and have athletic plus potential get to the nfl. The culture didn’t hold them back. Amd whatever culture Alabama has, plenty of guys go there and flush out.

People who think we would magically develop guys into nfl players if we had different staffs aren’t thinking about it well enough. Which guys? Why can’t they develop now? Guys from random low level schools become pro bowlers.

One possibility is there is a link here. Evals aren’t just for athletic potential. They’re for attitude, work ethic, drive. Butch knew that. It’s a poorly hidden secret that the troll used to neg kids who came off too rough on backgrounds official visits (i have heard that from folks - believe it if you want to, not going to debate it). She had other priorities. Culture is fleeting. Country club coker onward. Golden got some rough kids in and most got processed pretty fast. Nothing wrong with good, nice kids but not everyone is DJ Dallas.

Whatever it is, our evals haven’t been good enough.

 

[AlexCane]

even with adding those 3 wins and finishing 9-3 still it would've had been a very deceiving record. the facts are the team faded in the last third of the season with very significant losses to FIU DUKE and L TECH. an argument could be made that we were lucky it was the end of the season because most likely we had lost any other remaining games in the schedule

9-3 its just a number. we saw the on field product and there is no way that any football knowledgeable canes fan would had been satisfied or happy with bragging about a 9-3 record

You think that's what recruits would think? A 5 or 6 game win streak to finish the year is an easy selling point. That FIU loss set this program back 2 years.