Jacory or Kaaya

[Coach Macho]

All the crap Kaaya gets but there's not many games you can point to him as the sole reason we lost. Jacory has plenty of those games. Like the 5 interceptions vs Ohio State, 4 interceptions vs BC, 3 interceptions in one quarter vs Notre Dame, etc, etc

Kaaya's offenses were 95th, 105th, and 99th in the 3rd down conversion rate during his time here. At what point would you start trading INT's in exchange for big plays or 3rd down conversions or beating ranked opponents?

Nothing is worse than throwing INT's. I don't care what his 3rd down conversion rate was.

 

[Waffle Honcho]

Benjamin = NFL starter and one of the league's fastest players
Miller = NFL starter, 1000 yard rusher, fastest RB in the league (4.40 forty)
Hankerson = NFL starter

Duke = NFL role player
Walton = Underclassmen in college
Njoku = early NFL pick
Dorsett = NFL role player


Didn't Mike James play with Jacory too? That's another NFL back. Kaaya played with some talented kids I guess, but after those top guys you mentioned there was a significant drop off.

Maybe my point about the offensive Talent is a little far-fetched but the truth Still Remains that he played beside a good defenses unlike Kaaya.

Well that's one way to spin what each of those players are. I think you could throw them all in a bag and you could pick any one of them out and they'd be about the same. Fact is, we don't know what the guys on the team now will do in the NFL but it would be fair to say that the talent was roughly the same.

The defensive players were about the same too, but the coaching was very different. Jacory's defense always had Spence, which goes a long way and Kaaya didn't have a great MLB until this year. We're really nitpicking though, the teams were roughly the same.

In terms of what, talent? Cause they weren't the same on the field. Jacory's Canes team would beat the **** out of 3/4 of Kaaya's teams. (and maybe squeek out a win against last season's team too)

We were much better on defense and special teams when Jacory was here. We were among tops in the nation in sacks, TFL's, pass defense, etc...and we were explosive on special teams.

Jacory definitely had more help than Kaaya throughout his career.

Yes in terms of talent they were roughly the same. The reason they weren't the same on the field was because of the coaching, like I said. They were roughly the same caliber of player.

 

[Waffle Honcho]

All the crap Kaaya gets but there's not many games you can point to him as the sole reason we lost. Jacory has plenty of those games. Like the 5 interceptions vs Ohio State, 4 interceptions vs BC, 3 interceptions in one quarter vs Notre Dame, etc, etc

Kaaya's offenses were 95th, 105th, and 99th in the 3rd down conversion rate during his time here. At what point would you start trading INT's in exchange for big plays or 3rd down conversions or beating ranked opponents?

Nothing is worse than throwing INT's. I don't care what his 3rd down conversion rate was.

Obviously.

 

[Coach Macho]

All the crap Kaaya gets but there's not many games you can point to him as the sole reason we lost. Jacory has plenty of those games. Like the 5 interceptions vs Ohio State, 4 interceptions vs BC, 3 interceptions in one quarter vs Notre Dame, etc, etc

Kaaya's offenses were 95th, 105th, and 99th in the 3rd down conversion rate during his time here. At what point would you start trading INT's in exchange for big plays or 3rd down conversions or beating ranked opponents?

Nothing is worse than throwing INT's. I don't care what his 3rd down conversion rate was.

Obviously.

Nobody else does either. You won't meet an OC on the planet that prefers a QB who throws a ton of picks but converts better on 3rd down. Turnovers are the most detrimental thing to an offense.

You're reaching by using the 3rd down conversion stat.

 

[Coach Macho]

Benjamin = NFL starter and one of the league's fastest players
Miller = NFL starter, 1000 yard rusher, fastest RB in the league (4.40 forty)
Hankerson = NFL starter

Duke = NFL role player
Walton = Underclassmen in college
Njoku = early NFL pick
Dorsett = NFL role player


Didn't Mike James play with Jacory too? That's another NFL back. Kaaya played with some talented kids I guess, but after those top guys you mentioned there was a significant drop off.

Maybe my point about the offensive Talent is a little far-fetched but the truth Still Remains that he played beside a good defenses unlike Kaaya.

Well that's one way to spin what each of those players are. I think you could throw them all in a bag and you could pick any one of them out and they'd be about the same. Fact is, we don't know what the guys on the team now will do in the NFL but it would be fair to say that the talent was roughly the same.

The defensive players were about the same too, but the coaching was very different. Jacory's defense always had Spence, which goes a long way and Kaaya didn't have a great MLB until this year. We're really nitpicking though, the teams were roughly the same.

In terms of what, talent? Cause they weren't the same on the field. Jacory's Canes team would beat the **** out of 3/4 of Kaaya's teams. (and maybe squeek out a win against last season's team too)

We were much better on defense and special teams when Jacory was here. We were among tops in the nation in sacks, TFL's, pass defense, etc...and we were explosive on special teams.

Jacory definitely had more help than Kaaya throughout his career.

Yes in terms of talent they were roughly the same. The reason they weren't the same on the field was because of the coaching, like I said. They were roughly the same caliber of player.

Ok. So Jacory still played with the better TEAM.

 

[Waffle Honcho]

Benjamin = NFL starter and one of the league's fastest players
Miller = NFL starter, 1000 yard rusher, fastest RB in the league (4.40 forty)
Hankerson = NFL starter

Duke = NFL role player
Walton = Underclassmen in college
Njoku = early NFL pick
Dorsett = NFL role player


Didn't Mike James play with Jacory too? That's another NFL back. Kaaya played with some talented kids I guess, but after those top guys you mentioned there was a significant drop off.

Maybe my point about the offensive Talent is a little far-fetched but the truth Still Remains that he played beside a good defenses unlike Kaaya.

Well that's one way to spin what each of those players are. I think you could throw them all in a bag and you could pick any one of them out and they'd be about the same. Fact is, we don't know what the guys on the team now will do in the NFL but it would be fair to say that the talent was roughly the same.

The defensive players were about the same too, but the coaching was very different. Jacory's defense always had Spence, which goes a long way and Kaaya didn't have a great MLB until this year. We're really nitpicking though, the teams were roughly the same.

In terms of what, talent? Cause they weren't the same on the field. Jacory's Canes team would beat the **** out of 3/4 of Kaaya's teams. (and maybe squeek out a win against last season's team too)

We were much better on defense and special teams when Jacory was here. We were among tops in the nation in sacks, TFL's, pass defense, etc...and we were explosive on special teams.

Jacory definitely had more help than Kaaya throughout his career.

Yes in terms of talent they were roughly the same. The reason they weren't the same on the field was because of the coaching, like I said. They were roughly the same caliber of player.

Ok. So Jacory still played with the better TEAM.

They were roughly the same. If you want to go through each player throughout the entire time and make a real debate out of it, I'll participate. But I don't care enough to start that, and the overall gestalt was that the teams were roughly the same.

 

[Waffle Honcho]

All the crap Kaaya gets but there's not many games you can point to him as the sole reason we lost. Jacory has plenty of those games. Like the 5 interceptions vs Ohio State, 4 interceptions vs BC, 3 interceptions in one quarter vs Notre Dame, etc, etc

Kaaya's offenses were 95th, 105th, and 99th in the 3rd down conversion rate during his time here. At what point would you start trading INT's in exchange for big plays or 3rd down conversions or beating ranked opponents?

Nothing is worse than throwing INT's. I don't care what his 3rd down conversion rate was.

Obviously.

Nobody else does either. You won't meet an OC on the planet that prefers a QB who throws a ton of picks but converts better on 3rd down. Turnovers are the most detrimental thing to an offense.

You're reaching by using the 3rd down conversion stat.

Both stats are awful. We're comparing **** sandwiches and asking if it's better with mayo or mustard, really.

 

[Coach Macho]

Well that's one way to spin what each of those players are. I think you could throw them all in a bag and you could pick any one of them out and they'd be about the same. Fact is, we don't know what the guys on the team now will do in the NFL but it would be fair to say that the talent was roughly the same.

The defensive players were about the same too, but the coaching was very different. Jacory's defense always had Spence, which goes a long way and Kaaya didn't have a great MLB until this year. We're really nitpicking though, the teams were roughly the same.

In terms of what, talent? Cause they weren't the same on the field. Jacory's Canes team would beat the **** out of 3/4 of Kaaya's teams. (and maybe squeek out a win against last season's team too)

We were much better on defense and special teams when Jacory was here. We were among tops in the nation in sacks, TFL's, pass defense, etc...and we were explosive on special teams.

Jacory definitely had more help than Kaaya throughout his career.

Yes in terms of talent they were roughly the same. The reason they weren't the same on the field was because of the coaching, like I said. They were roughly the same caliber of player.

Ok. So Jacory still played with the better TEAM.

They were roughly the same. If you want to go through each player throughout the entire time and make a real debate out of it, I'll participate. But I don't care enough to start that, and the overall gestalt was that the teams were roughly the same.

They weren't the same on the field. The defenses that played beside Jacory were much better, as were the special teams. Doesn't matter if it was due to coaching or not, they were better.

 

[KevinCaneFace]

Kaaya's offenses were 95th, 105th, and 99th in the 3rd down conversion rate during his time here. At what point would you start trading INT's in exchange for big plays or 3rd down conversions or beating ranked opponents?

Nothing is worse than throwing INT's. I don't care what his 3rd down conversion rate was.

Obviously.

Nobody else does either. You won't meet an OC on the planet that prefers a QB who throws a ton of picks but converts better on 3rd down. Turnovers are the most detrimental thing to an offense.

You're reaching by using the 3rd down conversion stat.

Both stats are awful. We're comparing **** sandwiches and asking if it's better with mayo or mustard, really.

I'm not sure what Jacory's 3rd down conversion rate was but I doubt it was great. But let's assume it was... Doesn't having a running game that can pick up the occasional 3rd and 2 help with that? Because Kaaya was never guaranteed we could run for 3rd and inches. That hasn't been consistent in years.

 

[Miami Nights]

Harris was victimized by an overly aggressive oc in whipple...kaaya had to play for the worse coach in hurricane history. I can see kaaya being pretty good in the right system. Same with Harris. Both had their weak points. Some of the int's Harris tossed made you shake your head but he did play against better teams. Kaaya played against trash overall.

 

[KevinCaneFace]

Harris was victimized by an overly aggressive oc in whipple...kaaya had to play for the worse coach in hurricane history. I can see kaaya being pretty good in the right system. Same with Harris. Both had their weak points. Some of the int's Harris tossed made you shake your head but he did play against better teams. Kaaya played against trash overall.

Jacory also had Jedd Fisch who did pretty good with Stephen Morris but and helped Jacory get the best year of his career. (It still wasn't as good as Kaaya at any point)

 

[ChosenOne]

I'm actually one of the rare beings that thinks Jacory's career was ruined by coaching. I think he could've done well had he been in a spread offense.

However, let's keep it real. Jacory orchestrated a few nice comebacks but HE WAS OFTEN THE REASON WE HAD TO COMEBACK TO BEGIN WITH. He was an INT machine.

Do you guys not remember how bad we were on offense during those years? Our defense was actually pretty good. Our offense was the main thing holding us back. Kaaya, on the other hand, has had to play beside some of the worst defenses in Miami history. Golden also didn't do Kaaya any favors when he decided to sign multiple WR's and RB's who run 4.7's. Our skill positions were mediocre under Golden. At least Jacory got the benefit of distributing the ball to a few NFL starters during his career.

Our skill positions were pretty much the same for Kaaya and Jacory. Kaaya has had Duke, Walton and Yearby, and he's had Dorsett, Coley, Njoku, and Richards. Those aren't NFL guys? I mean you're comparing them to who, Benjamin, Hankerson and Streeter? Lamar Miller played great in 2011, but that doesn't change the whole argument.

Benjamin = NFL starter and one of the league's fastest players
Miller = NFL starter, 1000 yard rusher, fastest RB in the league (4.40 forty)
Hankerson = NFL starter

Duke = NFL role player
Walton = Underclassmen in college
Njoku = early NFL pick
Dorsett = NFL role player


Didn't Mike James play with Jacory too? That's another NFL back. Kaaya played with some talented kids I guess, but after those top guys you mentioned there was a significant drop off.

Maybe my point about the offensive Talent is a little far-fetched but the truth Still Remains that he played beside a good defenses unlike Kaaya.

I actually think Kaaya has had more offensive talent.

Duke was a better RB and overall college player than Miller. Yearby was a better college RB than Mike James. Dorsett and Benjamin to me is a toss up. I would take Njoku over Hankerson any day. Richards Coley and even Herb Waters are all better receivers than anyone Jacory had to throw to.

Because Jacory Harris was throwing to the other team.. You do understand that good QB make average player look good? have u watched a GB game before?

 

[Waffle Honcho]

I'm actually one of the rare beings that thinks Jacory's career was ruined by coaching. I think he could've done well had he been in a spread offense.

However, let's keep it real. Jacory orchestrated a few nice comebacks but HE WAS OFTEN THE REASON WE HAD TO COMEBACK TO BEGIN WITH. He was an INT machine.

Do you guys not remember how bad we were on offense during those years? Our defense was actually pretty good. Our offense was the main thing holding us back. Kaaya, on the other hand, has had to play beside some of the worst defenses in Miami history. Golden also didn't do Kaaya any favors when he decided to sign multiple WR's and RB's who run 4.7's. Our skill positions were mediocre under Golden. At least Jacory got the benefit of distributing the ball to a few NFL starters during his career.

Our skill positions were pretty much the same for Kaaya and Jacory. Kaaya has had Duke, Walton and Yearby, and he's had Dorsett, Coley, Njoku, and Richards. Those aren't NFL guys? I mean you're comparing them to who, Benjamin, Hankerson and Streeter? Lamar Miller played great in 2011, but that doesn't change the whole argument.

Benjamin = NFL starter and one of the league's fastest players
Miller = NFL starter, 1000 yard rusher, fastest RB in the league (4.40 forty)
Hankerson = NFL starter

Duke = NFL role player
Walton = Underclassmen in college
Njoku = early NFL pick
Dorsett = NFL role player


Didn't Mike James play with Jacory too? That's another NFL back. Kaaya played with some talented kids I guess, but after those top guys you mentioned there was a significant drop off.

Maybe my point about the offensive Talent is a little far-fetched but the truth Still Remains that he played beside a good defenses unlike Kaaya.

I actually think Kaaya has had more offensive talent.

Duke was a better RB and overall college player than Miller. Yearby was a better college RB than Mike James. Dorsett and Benjamin to me is a toss up. I would take Njoku over Hankerson any day. Richards Coley and even Herb Waters are all better receivers than anyone Jacory had to throw to.

Because Jacory Harris was throwing to the other team.. You do understand that good QB make average player look good? have u watched a GB game before?

What "average" player did Kaaya make look good?

 

[KevinCaneFace]

I'm actually one of the rare beings that thinks Jacory's career was ruined by coaching. I think he could've done well had he been in a spread offense.

However, let's keep it real. Jacory orchestrated a few nice comebacks but HE WAS OFTEN THE REASON WE HAD TO COMEBACK TO BEGIN WITH. He was an INT machine.

Do you guys not remember how bad we were on offense during those years? Our defense was actually pretty good. Our offense was the main thing holding us back. Kaaya, on the other hand, has had to play beside some of the worst defenses in Miami history. Golden also didn't do Kaaya any favors when he decided to sign multiple WR's and RB's who run 4.7's. Our skill positions were mediocre under Golden. At least Jacory got the benefit of distributing the ball to a few NFL starters during his career.

Our skill positions were pretty much the same for Kaaya and Jacory. Kaaya has had Duke, Walton and Yearby, and he's had Dorsett, Coley, Njoku, and Richards. Those aren't NFL guys? I mean you're comparing them to who, Benjamin, Hankerson and Streeter? Lamar Miller played great in 2011, but that doesn't change the whole argument.

Benjamin = NFL starter and one of the league's fastest players
Miller = NFL starter, 1000 yard rusher, fastest RB in the league (4.40 forty)
Hankerson = NFL starter

Duke = NFL role player
Walton = Underclassmen in college
Njoku = early NFL pick
Dorsett = NFL role player


Didn't Mike James play with Jacory too? That's another NFL back. Kaaya played with some talented kids I guess, but after those top guys you mentioned there was a significant drop off.

Maybe my point about the offensive Talent is a little far-fetched but the truth Still Remains that he played beside a good defenses unlike Kaaya.

I actually think Kaaya has had more offensive talent.

Duke was a better RB and overall college player than Miller. Yearby was a better college RB than Mike James. Dorsett and Benjamin to me is a toss up. I would take Njoku over Hankerson any day. Richards Coley and even Herb Waters are all better receivers than anyone Jacory had to throw to.

Because Jacory Harris was throwing to the other team.. You do understand that good QB make average player look good? have u watched a GB game before?

Duke was not better than Miller in college. Millar just left early. Also, Mike James could pick up a third and short unlike Yearby

 

[Bicho]

Kaaya was much better than jacory.

 

[Waffle Honcho]

Kaaya was much better than jacory.

Hey maybe if you say it one more time you'll start changing people's minds.

 

[Waffle Honcho]

Our skill positions were pretty much the same for Kaaya and Jacory. Kaaya has had Duke, Walton and Yearby, and he's had Dorsett, Coley, Njoku, and Richards. Those aren't NFL guys? I mean you're comparing them to who, Benjamin, Hankerson and Streeter? Lamar Miller played great in 2011, but that doesn't change the whole argument.

Benjamin = NFL starter and one of the league's fastest players
Miller = NFL starter, 1000 yard rusher, fastest RB in the league (4.40 forty)
Hankerson = NFL starter

Duke = NFL role player
Walton = Underclassmen in college
Njoku = early NFL pick
Dorsett = NFL role player


Didn't Mike James play with Jacory too? That's another NFL back. Kaaya played with some talented kids I guess, but after those top guys you mentioned there was a significant drop off.

Maybe my point about the offensive Talent is a little far-fetched but the truth Still Remains that he played beside a good defenses unlike Kaaya.

I actually think Kaaya has had more offensive talent.

Duke was a better RB and overall college player than Miller. Yearby was a better college RB than Mike James. Dorsett and Benjamin to me is a toss up. I would take Njoku over Hankerson any day. Richards Coley and even Herb Waters are all better receivers than anyone Jacory had to throw to.

Because Jacory Harris was throwing to the other team.. You do understand that good QB make average player look good? have u watched a GB game before?

Duke was not better than Miller in college. Millar just left early. Also, Mike James could pick up a third and short unlike Yearby

WTF are you talking about now? Duke averaged a full yard per carry (6.7) more than Miller (5.7) and was a much, much, much bigger threat out of the backfield. Miller averaged 91 yards per scrimmage per game and Duke averaged 128 yards per scrimmage per game. "Duke was not better than Miller" You guys are just getting ridiculous. I really have to get away from this thread.

 

[KevinCaneFace]

Benjamin = NFL starter and one of the league's fastest players
Miller = NFL starter, 1000 yard rusher, fastest RB in the league (4.40 forty)
Hankerson = NFL starter

Duke = NFL role player
Walton = Underclassmen in college
Njoku = early NFL pick
Dorsett = NFL role player


Didn't Mike James play with Jacory too? That's another NFL back. Kaaya played with some talented kids I guess, but after those top guys you mentioned there was a significant drop off.

Maybe my point about the offensive Talent is a little far-fetched but the truth Still Remains that he played beside a good defenses unlike Kaaya.

I actually think Kaaya has had more offensive talent.

Duke was a better RB and overall college player than Miller. Yearby was a better college RB than Mike James. Dorsett and Benjamin to me is a toss up. I would take Njoku over Hankerson any day. Richards Coley and even Herb Waters are all better receivers than anyone Jacory had to throw to.

Because Jacory Harris was throwing to the other team.. You do understand that good QB make average player look good? have u watched a GB game before?

Duke was not better than Miller in college. Millar just left early. Also, Mike James could pick up a third and short unlike Yearby

WTF are you talking about now? Duke averaged a full yard per carry (6.7) more than Miller (5.7) and was a much, much, much bigger threat out of the backfield. Miller averaged 91 yards per scrimmage per game and Duke averaged 128 yards per scrimmage per game. "Duke was not better than Miller" You guys are just getting ridiculous. I really have to get away from this thread.

Normally I'd rely on numbers but I've seen Lamar Miller dominate games (VT for example). Love some Duke Johnson but he wasn't as good as Lamar. Lamar split the backfield and only had one season as the premier back where he put up 1200 yards. Duke didn't top that until his third season as the premier back. Lamar Miller would have killed it if he returned for his junior year.

 

[Waffle Honcho]

I actually think Kaaya has had more offensive talent.

Duke was a better RB and overall college player than Miller. Yearby was a better college RB than Mike James. Dorsett and Benjamin to me is a toss up. I would take Njoku over Hankerson any day. Richards Coley and even Herb Waters are all better receivers than anyone Jacory had to throw to.

Because Jacory Harris was throwing to the other team.. You do understand that good QB make average player look good? have u watched a GB game before?

Duke was not better than Miller in college. Millar just left early. Also, Mike James could pick up a third and short unlike Yearby

WTF are you talking about now? Duke averaged a full yard per carry (6.7) more than Miller (5.7) and was a much, much, much bigger threat out of the backfield. Miller averaged 91 yards per scrimmage per game and Duke averaged 128 yards per scrimmage per game. "Duke was not better than Miller" You guys are just getting ridiculous. I really have to get away from this thread.

Normally I'd rely on numbers but I've seen Lamar Miller dominate games (VT for example). Love some Duke Johnson but he wasn't as good as Lamar. Lamar split the backfield and only had one season as the premier back where he put up 1200 yards. Duke didn't top that until his third season as the premier back. Lamar Miller would have killed it if he returned for his junior year.

You're probably not relying on numbers because there are none that work to support that argument. Yet you still want to bring up an arbitrary number such as 1200 yards, which Lamar had once (he had 646 yards his other season). Duke had 947, 920, and 1652 yards (the year with Kaaya) during his 3 seasons and again a significantly higher YPC. This is not an argument. Lamar may have "killed it" during his junior year, but he didn't. And we are talking about the support Jacory/Kaaya had so that's irrelevant what he could've done.

 

[jjacks93]

Our skill positions were pretty much the same for Kaaya and Jacory. Kaaya has had Duke, Walton and Yearby, and he's had Dorsett, Coley, Njoku, and Richards. Those aren't NFL guys? I mean you're comparing them to who, Benjamin, Hankerson and Streeter? Lamar Miller played great in 2011, but that doesn't change the whole argument.

Benjamin = NFL starter and one of the league's fastest players
Miller = NFL starter, 1000 yard rusher, fastest RB in the league (4.40 forty)
Hankerson = NFL starter

Duke = NFL role player
Walton = Underclassmen in college
Njoku = early NFL pick
Dorsett = NFL role player


Didn't Mike James play with Jacory too? That's another NFL back. Kaaya played with some talented kids I guess, but after those top guys you mentioned there was a significant drop off.

Maybe my point about the offensive Talent is a little far-fetched but the truth Still Remains that he played beside a good defenses unlike Kaaya.

I actually think Kaaya has had more offensive talent.

Duke was a better RB and overall college player than Miller. Yearby was a better college RB than Mike James. Dorsett and Benjamin to me is a toss up. I would take Njoku over Hankerson any day. Richards Coley and even Herb Waters are all better receivers than anyone Jacory had to throw to.

Because Jacory Harris was throwing to the other team.. You do understand that good QB make average player look good? have u watched a GB game before?

Duke was not better than Miller in college. Millar just left early. Also, Mike James could pick up a third and short unlike Yearby

Huh ? Duke wasnt better than Miller ? Please explain that. Mike James never even sniffed 1k unlike Yearby