Is it play-calling or concepts/system?....

[ShadowSpring]

well how many teams have played a team as poor as Savannah St or scored 3 TD's defensively in a game?

This is pointless.

We are 20th in scoring offense. It doesn't suck, hopefully it continues down the stretch.

 

[k9cane]

certain people should stay out of certain threads, they are waaaay too sensitive to any criticism of Richt or the offensive system

 

[terdferguson]

Several comments...

1. Blaming everything on the oline is crap. We have enough talent there to do better.
2. In the fsu game guys were not running wide open all over. Many plays no one was open, especially in the first half. It was almost like they knew the plays we were running.
3. We make no effort to confuse the defense. Look at how we came out vs fsu. Run run pass, punt. Them, 4 wr bunches. 3 wr bunch. Wr stacks on each side. On the opening drive our defense was confused and trying to get its bearings with these formations. As a result they marched right down and scored a touchdown.
4. One of the best scorecards of an oc is what they do in goal to go situations. It's tough down there, you have to deceive the defense or find a mismatch. Look at what richt does here. Fade to wr, lob to back of the endzone, QB draw, or off tackle run. Vanilla vanilla vanilla vanilla. Watch what nfl teams so down here. Jumbo packages with a run look with play action to someone leaking out....a deception play that EVERYONE runs in some form because it works! Wr pick plays to get guys open quickly. This is a microcosm of richt the play caller. It feels like he's just calling plays instead of creating mismatches and trying to fool the defense.

 

[k9cane]

Several comments...

1. Blaming everything on the oline is crap. We have enough talent there to do better.
2. In the fsu game guys were not running wide open all over. Many plays no one was open, especially in the first half. It was almost like they knew the plays we were running.
3. We make no effort to confuse the defense. Look at how we came out vs fsu. Run run pass, punt. Them, 4 wr bunches. 3 wr bunch. Wr stacks on each side. On the opening drive our defense was confused and trying to get its bearings with these formations. As a result they marched right down and scored a touchdown.
4. One of the best scorecards of an oc is what they do in goal to go situations. It's tough down there, you have to deceive the defense or find a mismatch. Look at what richt does here. Fade to wr, lob to back of the endzone, QB draw, or off tackle run. Vanilla vanilla vanilla vanilla. Watch what nfl teams so down here. Jumbo packages with a run look with play action to someone leaking out....a deception play that EVERYONE runs in some form because it works! Wr pick plays to get guys open quickly. This is a microcosm of richt the play caller. It feels like he's just calling plays instead of creating mismatches and trying to fool the defense.

Terd, great post, from your observations do we have or have we run any 'rub' concepts? I can't recall any, this is another way of freeing up guys in the red-zone when the field constricts.

And yeah, our Oline isn't the 2001 unit but this whole notion that is needed to have at least a more productive unit to me is a bit of a strawman argument

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

It's clear to me that until UM gets the O-line that Richt wants, what he runs will always struggle a bit because for the time being they can't create consistent running lanes.

 

[k9cane]

It's clear to me that until UM gets the O-line that Richt wants, what he runs will always struggle a bit because for the time being they can't create consistent running lanes.

Thats completely fair but the question is till that occurs(knock on wood) should we find more wrinkles/creativity to work around that?

There's really nothing wrong with basic fundamental concepts if you have the outright talent to do that but if you dont(as UM doesnt right now upfront) that's where creating schematic advantages comes in.

 

[mackjones]

It's clear to me that until UM gets the O-line that Richt wants, what he runs will always struggle a bit because for the time being they can't create consistent running lanes.

Yeah. It all starts up front in the trenches. That includes the defensive side of the ball too. Why do U think the defensive unit is performing better than the offense or special teams! G, Garvin and Joesph! That's why.

By the way, Miami's total offense is a PUTRID No. 70 in the country. And U take away the scrimmage against TINY Savannah St., the ranking would be lower! So let that sink in a moment. Heck, even with a suspect offensive line Miami should be ranked higher regarding total offense. Especially with all those " play makers. "

The bottom line: It's the offensive line and the play calling! No ifs, buts or get the FREAK outta' here, troll.

 

[marshallrc13]

Thats completely fair but the question is till that occurs(knock on wood) should we find more wrinkles/creativity to work around that?

There's really nothing wrong with basic fundamental concepts if you have the outright talent to do that but if you dont(as UM doesnt right now upfront) that's where creating schematic advantages comes in.

I think until we find more OL and we want to run we should try more I formation and get a fullback in there for lead blocking. Run more counters. As of right now, when we line up in the pistol/shotgun and depending on which side the RB is on, we all know where the run is going or it's play action. We also run play action on 3rd and forever which makes no sense. I agree we need more creativity in the run game for the time being. We simply aren't good enough up front to just line up and beat other teams with one on one blacking.

 

[Consigliere]

well how many teams have played a team as poor as Savannah St or scored 3 TD's defensively in a game?

One of the many reasons that...I am not concerned with comparing us to others, especially at this juncture, I am just concerned with the actual accurate numbers.

 

[ScubaCane]

I keep waiting for this offense to put in a great performance and week after week I'm disappointed. Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with Richt as a playcaller as long as he is HC here. Just don't think we'll be able to reach our full potential with him calling plays.

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

Thats completely fair but the question is till that occurs(knock on wood) should we find more wrinkles/creativity to work around that?

There's really nothing wrong with basic fundamental concepts if you have the outright talent to do that but if you dont(as UM doesnt right now upfront) that's where creating schematic advantages comes in.

I've asked this question and have yet to see you or anyone else that doesn't like our scheme/concepts/playcalling answer the question. What kind of "creative advantage" do you think we can do? I'm genuinely curious.

What kind of concepts do you want to see? What do you think will work with this OL and lack of perimeter blocking?

You brought up the discussion. Now lets see you discuss.

 

[k9cane]

I've asked this question and have yet to see you or anyone else that doesn't like our scheme/concepts/playcalling answer the question. What kind of "creative advantage" do you think we can do? I'm genuinely curious.

What kind of concepts do you want to see? What do you think will work with this OL and lack of perimeter blocking?

You brought up the discussion. Now lets see you discuss.

really? I mean, I suggest you read this thread more carefully then, if you think people haven't brought up specific things or suggestions.

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

Several comments...

1. Blaming everything on the oline is crap. We have enough talent there to do better.
2. In the fsu game guys were not running wide open all over. Many plays no one was open, especially in the first half. It was almost like they knew the plays we were running.
3. We make no effort to confuse the defense. Look at how we came out vs fsu. Run run pass, punt. Them, 4 wr bunches. 3 wr bunch. Wr stacks on each side. On the opening drive our defense was confused and trying to get its bearings with these formations. As a result they marched right down and scored a touchdown.
4. One of the best scorecards of an oc is what they do in goal to go situations. It's tough down there, you have to deceive the defense or find a mismatch. Look at what richt does here. Fade to wr, lob to back of the endzone, QB draw, or off tackle run. Vanilla vanilla vanilla vanilla. Watch what nfl teams so down here. Jumbo packages with a run look with play action to someone leaking out....a deception play that EVERYONE runs in some form because it works! Wr pick plays to get guys open quickly. This is a microcosm of richt the play caller. It feels like he's just calling plays instead of creating mismatches and trying to fool the defense.

How can we run jumbo with our roster? I'll sit back and let you explain that one. We have 2 freshman TEs and a FB who is a coverted tailback that got BLOWN UP on 1 of the 2 lead blocks he attempted.

Again we run the pick plays, we're not throwing them (See cager dropped fade or the Wiggins toe tap play. Watch the RB and single receiver). However you can't run them everytime. We did run a play with motion where we had Cager open for the TD, but i bet if the ball went to Jordan its a TD too. You think fades are basic, but what do you think VTech did in the redzone against panhandles 5'8" corners? They literally threw the ball up to their 6'5" guy and watched him come down with it. You talk about finding the mismatch, but then you call the fade that is the most glaring mismatch as vanilla. Doesn't make sense.

as for point #2. We had guys open. We didn't hit them. I can name them for you if you'd like. We don't have a perfect scheme or perfect concepts, but they're not vanilla or outdated. They're the same **** everyone runs.

 

[gogeta4]

geta, it's interesting you mention the Dallas-cat, Ive noticed that the Saints have created a specific role for Taysom Hill(former BYU QB, who basically cost Manny Diaz his job at Texas, lol) a role where his job is to come in for a few plays and basically move the chains in the Wildcat set

Now, this doesn't necessarily mean Im advocating for more Dallas-cat but it can be used as a specific niche

But what's interesting to me is that there is a belief by some that every offense thats productive has 3 or 4 future NFL Olineman upfront and that's the minimum prerequisite to have a unit that can churn out yards and points consistently

Its b.s.. And if were going to sit and waitr for that to happen we'll be waiting awhile as S.Fla just don't produce enough high quality talent for that to be a main stay and we aren't going after much out of staters nationwide at the ol spot.
I mean some of the stuff can be fixed by creativity in the run game...and less zone blocking. Yall remember how garbage our ol was and then someone went down and we were forced to have Dallas Crawford and all of a sudden we mauled NC. I think we can crank out some good rushing yards with Donaldson at guard and bringing that power game in. Or pulling Boulware some..he has shown the ability to do it. We'll see moving forward though. Im a big fan of Dallas in the Wildcat 2-3 times a game.

 

[k9cane]

Its b.s.. And if were going to sit and waitr for that to happen we'll be waiting awhile as S.Fla just don't produce enough high quality talent for that to be a main stay and we aren't going after much out of staters nationwide at the ol spot.
I mean some of the stuff can be fixed by creativity in the run game...and less zone blocking. Yall remember how garbage our ol was and then someone went down and we were forced to have Dallas Crawford and all of a sudden we mauled NC. I think we can crank out some good rushing yards with Donaldson at guard and bringing that power game in. Or pulling Boulware some..he has shown the ability to do it. We'll see moving forward though. Im a big fan of Dallas in the Wildcat 2-3 times a game.

I do think having Donaldson inside where he belongs is a positive step, as is getting Scaife on the field much more. It gets us closer to having our best 5 upfront on the field more often. I think we shuffle the Oline waaay too much during games

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

really? I mean, I suggest you read this thread more carefully then, if you think people haven't brought up specific things or suggestions.

Asking you.

I've read the suggestions:
Run the Option with Kosi -- wasn't the gripe he was too skinny? Why would we run the option and give free licks?
Jets Sweeps with Motion -- Probably the only suggestion that has made sense
Sluggo routes in redzone -- I think we ran this on LSU. I bet we ran it a couple of times down low against a coupe of teams we just don't see it
Post Corners -- What do we think JT scored on against panhandle. Completion to Cager that was reviwed as a different way to have the same smash concept. which we run often in this offense
Wildcat -- Maybe. worked a little last year and i do think that DeeJay ALWAYS makes the first guy miss. Not the worse, but it's a gimmick wouldn't you agree?
We have Basic run concepts. Need more Pulling linemen, counter tre, screens -- as i stated earlier we DO run these (screens, pulling OL). 3rd and 3 to seal the game. Jones was supposed to be out in front leading. He sucks so he was running blocking no one. Actually blocked same guy that choc had. We've pulled navaugh a few times, tried pulling st. louis, pulled Brevin, had brevin as the lead blocker on some iso, had him block back to try and get a seal all against panhandle. Problem here is when you have a leaky middle pulling isn't the best option and all it takes is one guy getting beat to look bad. Also we SUCK at cutting off backside defenders. St. Louis and Mahoney being the worse offenders here with Jones. People think we ran the same play because it looks similar, but blocking was so vastly different a lot of the time.
More Formations -- as @CanesAreAble stated we run a lot of formations. How many more formations should we run?
Double back sets -- Who do we want to take off the field? Brevin, Move JT outside where we help the defense by not giving him the WHOLE field to work? I mean i do like the idea of homer and DJ on the field, but can one be the lead blocker for the other? If so then i would like that idea.

I see all of the suggestions, they're just dumb and doesn't fit what we can and can't do well. Wildcat every now and again maybe, more motions jet sweeps ok, but everything else is just....well not smart based on who we have or we do run the **** porsters are asking for they just can't see if when its run.

 

[Colombie]

I think we're stuck with Richt as a playcaller as long as he is HC here. Just don't think we'll be able to reach our full potential with him calling plays.

I think your first premise should come as no surprise to anyone.
You along with many keep on stressing the need for an OC.
One of the reasons why Richt took the head coaching job is that he wanted to be the OC and work with the QBs. If he wants to stick with that choice and the higher ups want to stick with that part of the agreement then so be it.


As for the full potential I have been saying for years now that we must be patient and wait and see how things go with 4 full recruiting classes before we can truly judge the offense. Next year will be the year I will join you if things do not look like they are progressing or the way Richt envisioned it to look.
As for this year I will just wait and see how his guys step up as the year goes by.

 

[gogeta4]

How can we run jumbo with our roster? I'll sit back and let you explain that one. We have 2 freshman TEs and a FB who is a coverted tailback that got BLOWN UP on 1 of the 2 lead blocks he attempted.

So we don't have lineman that we rotate absurdly currently anyway (Jahair Jones, Scaife). We cant go unbalanced formation?. Honestly I would bring Scaife in ..if hes not starting in a jumbo look on the outside. Choc actually hasn't been half bad...did get blown up Saturday but that guy is about 240 and that's all he is good for.


Again we run the pick plays, we're not throwing them (See cager dropped fade or the Wiggins toe tap play. Watch the RB and single receiver). However you can't run them everytime. We did run a play with motion where we had Cager open for the TD, but i bet if the ball went to Jordan its a TD too. You think fades are basic, but what do you think VTech did in the redzone against panhandles 5'8" corners? They literally threw the ball up to their 6'5" guy and watched him come down with it. You talk about finding the mismatch, but then you call the fade that is the most glaring mismatch as vanilla. Doesn't make sense.

as for point #2. We had guys open. We didn't hit them. I can name them for you if you'd like. We don't have a perfect scheme or perfect concepts, but they're not vanilla or outdated. They're the same **** everyone runs.

When we have casual fans that can predict our plays. (My father .,.who isn't a football savant by a longshot). Or you have DC'S that have literally called our scheme basic. (Aranda, other ACC coaches). I don't know what to tell you?. Apparently Richt is off limits to some....even though he had play calling duties grabbed from him for good reason at UGA.

We will forever be good at the skills due to recruiting and our location. But is it too much to ask for some creativity to create real disadvantages CONSISTENTLY. The running joke is that we are holding back the playbook for acc play or a big game....and HERE we are 3 years later...awaiting on Manny Sosa to create short field opportunities and the turn over chain to make appearances so we can actually score. Just imagine if this o was clicking and forcing teams to play from behind 2 scores....TURNOVER CHAIN, TURNOVER CHAIN, TURNOVER CHAIN

 

[DiegoCane]

This is pointless.

We are 20th in scoring offense. It doesn't suck, hopefully it continues down the stretch.

Filtering to D1 oppenents only we are 62nd in the nation in yards per play, 67th in total offense, 67th in plays per game despite being 24th in Time of Possession.

This is a mediocre offense anyway you look at it, far too many athletes for that to be the case.

 

[k9cane]

Asking you.

I've read the suggestions:
Run the Option with Kosi -- wasn't the gripe he was too skinny? Why would we run the option and give free licks?
Jets Sweeps with Motion -- Probably the only suggestion that has made sense
Sluggo routes in redzone -- I think we ran this on LSU. I bet we ran it a couple of times down low against a coupe of teams we just don't see it
Post Corners -- What do we think JT scored on against panhandle. Completion to Cager that was reviwed as a different way to have the same smash concept. which we run often in this offense
Wildcat -- Maybe. worked a little last year and i do think that DeeJay ALWAYS makes the first guy miss. Not the worse, but it's a gimmick wouldn't you agree?
We have Basic run concepts. Need more Pulling linemen, counter tre, screens -- as i stated earlier we DO run these (screens, pulling OL). 3rd and 3 to seal the game. Jones was supposed to be out in front leading. He sucks so he was running blocking no one. Actually blocked same guy that choc had. We've pulled navaugh a few times, tried pulling st. louis, pulled Brevin, had brevin as the lead blocker on some iso, had him block back to try and get a seal all against panhandle. Problem here is when you have a leaky middle pulling isn't the best option and all it takes is one guy getting beat to look bad. Also we SUCK at cutting off backside defenders. St. Louis and Mahoney being the worse offenders here with Jones. People think we ran the same play because it looks similar, but blocking was so vastly different a lot of the time.
More Formations -- as @CanesAreAble stated we run a lot of formations. How many more formations should we run?
Double back sets -- Who do we want to take off the field? Brevin, Move JT outside where we help the defense by not giving him the WHOLE field to work? I mean i do like the idea of homer and DJ on the field, but can one be the lead blocker for the other? If so then i would like that idea.

I see all of the suggestions, they're just dumb and doesn't fit what we can and can't do well. Wildcat every now and again maybe, more motions jet sweeps ok, but everything else is just....well not smart based on who we have or we do run the **** porsters are asking for they just can't see if when its run.

Ok, personally, Ive said this for awhile and many might disagree but I'd go with more spread concepts(3, 4, even 5 wide) , to me, this Oline isn't nearly good enough(as you stated) to do what Richt currently asks of them. Now, some will say going spread might be worse, to me, it's a lesser of two evils , if you can run things that get the ball out of Perry's hands quickly for the most part(and if Im not mistaken, he played this style of ball in high school). It may be overly finesseful(yeah, that's probably not a word, lol) but I believe Erickson would've been a really good coach for this team with his system. In my view, the power/inside run game will struggle vs the good teams we face this season

To me, our strength as an offense is the WR's(even without Ahmonn Richards) and I would try and find ways to get the ball more to Jeff Thomas(16 catches halfway through the season isn't good) more. But time and time again, I hear from those in the know that this system relies way too much on all-4 verticals, that we have a very limited route tree, in general.

And Id go with more up-tempo(not this slow version of 'the muddle huddle' we presently run). And yeah, this comes with a downside because you risk leaving the defense on the field too long if you can't move the chains.

I dont happen to agree with all this talk of going to more big sets with more of an emphasis on the power run game. Flat out, I don't think that suits are current personnel(as you noted).