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Is it play-calling or concepts/system?....

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k9cane said:
Just wanted to ask this question, I see this a lot( and yes, Im guilty of it as anyone, lol) but it never fails that when Miami dials up a run that gets stuffed, you'll hear,"Richt is too conservative'' or 'this is so predictable!!' or 'Richt is too conservative AND predictable!!'

OK, but if that runs gets 7-8 yards, - well, that's a good play call( even if it was predictable and/or conservative), right? Nobody ever complains when this occurs.

The thing is sometimes you absolutely have to run the ball early in games and on early downs because if you talk to any Olineman that has played at this level and they will tell you that the have to be given the opportunity to come off the ball early on and hit the guy across the line from them and begin the process of wearing them down a bit because it aids in their pass blocking later on.

Also, you have run the ball just to give your defense a rest(and this also means producing first downs consistently, of course). So I'm not always a guy that flips out over every 1st down run that creates 2nd and 9. Now, those 2nd and 9 runs up the middle that lead to 3rd-and-8, yeah, those bother me a lot if you do that too often.

But here's my question: is the real/bigger problem the not the actual play-calls but the design of the plays and concepts within the offense? You watch football at all different levels and you'll see schemes that get guys WIDE open and free in space. Im not sure I see that with the Canes offense, currently.

Ive been told by people who have seen our all-22(the only real way to diagnose a game), former players and read guys on this board who really know the X-and-O's of this game - who I defer to on these matters - that the current system is kinda simplistic, if not archaic, in certain ways. One thing Ive heard time and time again is that in our pass game, we have very little in terms of route combinations( as @LuCane has mentioned numerous times), we dont have a lot of 'beaters'(certain route concepts that are used versus various coverages and alignments) and we are waaay to reliant on all-go verticals, where our WR's are just counted on to beat their guy.

And going back to the last game, it wasnt really the fact that Miami kept running - but running the ball into the A-gap not the perimeter(which many of our more knowledgeable posters believed FSU was very vulnerable on the edge). And the one time I recall a true outside running play, Deejay Dallas broke off a big run on a 2nd and 17. But I didn't see a lot of runs to the outside, overall. The point is though, sometimes running is absolutely the RIGHT call, but it matters how you plan on doing it that is key. Context is important in this regard

This is my one real complaint about this offense - we dont have enough easy throws/completions that our QB(whoever it is) can rely on coming into each game. I know some hate the bubble screen(yeah, they've been Patrick Nix'd) but things like that and short passes into the flat to the running backs(like the one Choc caught for about 15 yards vs FSU) need to be utilized more. Short, easy, quick throws that aren't difficult reads. Get the rock into the hands of our playmakers(and yes, we have them all over, even without Ahmonn Richards)

Is that asking for too much?

Plays of this nature on early downs can serve as your running game to a certain degree. It's how Steve Walsh had the table set for him in many games by Gary Stevens.

Please, tell me if Im full of it - Ok, I AM full of it- but lemme know if Im completely off-base here. I can see the current offensive approach if Richt had the 2001 Oline, but guess what, they don't. And as I like to say: thats why our offense looks like Blockbuster Video in a Netflix world

I read on Twitter from our own @Roman Marciante that the leading receiver on this team is Jeff Thomas - he has all of 16 catches(and he basically missed a game) but 16 catches in six games is your leader? I dunno, that doesn't look like an offense taking full advantage of your playmakers. Hopefully things pick up as N'kosi Perry evolves.

But again, maybe it's just not play-calling
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This is a lot of words to say the OL sucks
 
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JHallCanes said:
Did you just blow a fuse?

It all makes sense now.

Bro I didn’t realize I was picking on a mental midget. My bad man, you really DO think this is a good topic to bring up.

Enjoy your day, friend. And leave your helmet where you can find it again next time.
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yeah, u mad
 
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@k9cane

Here's what I will tell you. I don't think that Virginia Tech has a better offensive line than we do. They definitely don't have better wide receivers than we do. they have some good running backs, but Dallas and Homer are probably the better tandem of the two. And their quarterback, well he is more experienced, I'll give him that.

In any event, I don't give them the edge in many places on offense except for quarterback, which is a big one but I'm not convinced there's some huge insurmountable difference between the two teams at that position.

With all that being said, if you look at the manner in which they were able to work the perimeters against FSU, I find it hard to believe we didn't take more pages out of their book to attack the defense. They put a lot of things on film that I believe we would be able to execute very well. The bubble screens for example, were there all game and we almost never tested them even if we were going to have numbers.

Richt did some nice things to come back and exploit favorable matchups, so I'm not taking all of this in as a complaint, but we could have done a lot more to help ourselves in the short-to-intermediate passing game when it was pretty clear that the inside run and the vertical passing game was a 50-50 proposition at best.

They have a good front four and some speed at linebacker, but giving them double-digit tackles for losses was ridiculous.
 
John77 said:
JHallCanes is singlehandedly derailing a good thread with his whiney bs. **** off and let the adults talk please.
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and my apologies for feeding the troll. I bare some of the responsibility, lol, now, back to the football talk on a football forum dedicated to the Miami Hurricanes...
 
simplycanes said:
@k9cane

Here's what I will tell you. I don't think that Virginia Tech has a better offensive line than we do. They definitely don't have better wide receivers than we do. they have some good running backs, but Dallas and Homer are probably the better tandem of the two. And their quarterback, well he is more experienced, I'll give him that.

In any event, I don't give them the edge in many places on offense except for quarterback, which is a big one but I'm not convinced there's some huge insurmountable difference between the two teams at that position.

With all that being said, if you look at the manner in which they were able to work the perimeters against FSU, I find it hard to believe we didn't take more pages out of their book to attack the defense. They put a lot of things on film that I believe we would be able to execute very well. The bubble screens for example, were there all game and we almost never tested them even if we were going to have numbers.

Richt did some nice things to come back and exploit favorable matchups, so I'm not taking all of this in as a complaint, but we could have done a lot more to help ourselves in the short-to-intermediate passing game when it was pretty clear that the inside run and the vertical passing game was a 50-50 proposition at best.

They have a good front four and some speed at linebacker, but giving them double-digit tackles for losses was ridiculous.
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I dont disagree with anything you stated, again, it's easy to rip a run call on first or second down, the question is - is it the right type of running play?

Also for those who say it's all about execution, well, yeah, of course it is. But the variable is that in this instance vs FSU, the interior of the UM Oline is not very good and the FSU tackles like Christmas and Wilson are very stout. Bottom line, they weren't going to 'execute' inside run plays at a high level on a consistent basis
 
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k9cane said:
I dont disagree with anything you stated, again, it's easy to rip a run call on first or second down, the question is - is it the right type of running play?

Also for those who say it's all about execution, well, yeah, of course it is. But the variable is that in this instance vs FSU, the interior of the UM Oline is not very good and the FSU tackles like Christmas and Wilson are very stout. Bottom line, they weren't going to 'execute' inside run plays at a high level on a consistent basis
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Which could lead you to believe CMR overestimates the offensive line rather than hides it. That's the only way I can explain the vertical passing game, the interior run stubbornness and the rotation into what many of us believe are players who should hardly ever see the field unless it's an emergency.

There are a few screenshots floating around where you see the defense with an 8 or 9 versus 6 advantage. Giving your quarterback an opportunity to throw hot or check to a bubble where we would have numbers isn't a tall order. To me that falls under awareness. I'll throw that word into the mix. They really don't change up what we do to attack the opponent.
 
simplycanes said:
Which could lead you to believe CMR overestimates the offensive line rather than hides it. That's the only way I can explain the vertical passing game, the interior run stubbornness and the rotation into what many of us believe are players who should hardly ever see the field unless it's an emergency.

There are a few screenshots floating around where you see the defense with an 8 or 9 versus 6 advantage. Giving your quarterback an opportunity to throw hot or check to a bubble where we would have numbers isn't a tall order. To me that falls under awareness. I'll throw that word into the mix. They really don't change up what we do to attack the opponent.
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I do wonder if Perry has the permission to audible/check at this point. Maybe he's just told to run what's told until further notice
 
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Loose Cannon said:
I love the work of @Roman Marciante as much as anybody, but I would recommend to all to never miss an @Lance Roffers game break downs. Read them both, and read them every week.

What I'm learning from Lance pushes me into the direction that scheme/system comes down to personal preference. Some guys like this, some guys like that. But the success of any scheme or system comes down to execution. What I see when I read Lance's work is that every play we call has a very good chance for success until someone fvcks up their assignment. Whether it's a missed block, missed read, or a bad route run, there's at least one guy on every single failed play that you can put a bullzeye on, and he's wearing a helmet, not a head set.

The single biggest play I've heard the most criticism about from Saturday was the empty set QB draw play that everyone including the announcers knew was coming. The reason I can't criticize that play call? It was there. The O-line did their job and there was a lane big enough for a dump truck. Perry just bent his cut wide and missed the lane. He should have scored standing up.

Right now we are a team that has talent and experience. The problem is that the talent and experience are usually not found in the same players. Our experienced guys are not very talented, and our talented guys have no experience.
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If the bolded part is true, then the issue is teaching.

If just about every offensive call is a play that can & should be successful but there's always a perpetual fck up, then the players are simply not understanding or struggling with what they're being taught in practice.

The question then becomes why? Blaming players is an easy cop out to defend coaches, just as always blaming coaches is an easy cop out to defend players. They're both responsible, but it's literally the coaches job to teach the players how to execute the plays properly every time & while no team will ever be perfect in play execution, the ones who figure out how to maximize their efficiency are the ones who tend to win the most.

If the Coaches don't feel they have the right players to execute consistently, then in college football the remedy is for them to recruit exactly who they feel do that best.

I've been as critical as any of the playcalling, but I commend Richt big time for making the switch to Perry, I feel our Offense has been much more efficient with him at the helm but also recognize it's still a small sample size.

I've come to terms with the fact this Offense is never going to look like a high powered uptempo machine, I believe if we stole some of those concepts & implemented them in our system we would be even better on O (particularly in the run game) but I'm okay with it is as long as we can continue to win. Richt draws up TD's plays to put enough points up every week, the Defense does it's job & force turnovers & contain big plays, to me the biggest issue right now is Punting.
 
What i want to see is more formations. Its fine if you want to run similar plays. Just give the opponent, different looks. I keep thinking about the 4 verts. If we have a QB who can deliver the ball all of a sudden its yards on yards. I think Richt should protect more with 6 and 7 players when we decide to take shots. Like the TD to Brevin. I been beating that drum. And be more creative in the run game, more traps and wham blocks, counters, off tackle leads with the FB. I just think we can change it up on the ground so the D cant key on what we are doing all the time
 
Liberty City El said:
If the bolded part is true, then the issue is teaching.

If just about every offensive call is a play that can & should be successful but there's always a perpetual fck up, then the players are simply not understanding or struggling with what they're being taught in practice.

The question then becomes why? Blaming players is an easy cop out to defend coaches, just as always blaming coaches is an easy cop out to defend players. They're both responsible, but it's literally the coaches job to teach the players how to execute the plays properly every time & while no team will ever be perfect in play execution, the ones who figure out how to maximize their efficiency are the ones who tend to win the most.

If the Coaches don't feel they have the right players to execute consistently, then in college football the remedy is for them to recruit exactly who they feel do that best.

I've been as critical as any of the playcalling, but I commend Richt big time for making the switch to Perry, I feel our Offense has been much more efficient with him at the helm but also recognize it's still a small sample size.

I've come to terms with the fact this Offense is never going to look like a high powered uptempo machine, I believe if we stole some of those concepts & implemented them in our system we would be even better on O (particularly in the run game) but I'm okay with it is as long as we can continue to win. Richt draws up TD's plays to put enough points up every week, the Defense does it's job & force turnovers & contain big plays, to me the biggest issue right now is Punting.
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I think our mass substitution philosophy is a big reason for this problem.
 
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Short answer: Richt is mediocre.

Long answer: His offense is an odd mixed bag. He runs standard concepts. Flat/curl is a favorite of his. If the defense shows man, the LB buzzes to the flat and opens a window for the curl/slant. We saw that a lot against FSU. The most glaring example was the first Cager TD on 4th & 2.

We’ve also seen deep post/deep dig, which puts the safety in conflict. If he jumps the dig underneath, that leaves the corner in single coverage on the deep post. We saw Ahmmon catch a big gainer against VTech on that concept last year.

He had a good QB rollout play where the slot fakes the corner, then cuts to the post. Berrios scored a TD on this against Pitt when the game was already lost. We ran it again the next week on the first possession against Clemson in the ACCCG. This time we ran it with Jeff Thomas, and it was wide open again. But Rosier badly underthrew it, and the safety had time to recover and break it up.

Richt also likes 4-verts against single-high looks. That was the play Brevin scored the TD on. He saw FSU liked to stay in their base look against that personnel grouping, so they knew Brevin would get single coverage on a LB. You put Thomas on the opposite side and have the QB look that way to put the safety in conflict, and boom. Brevin dusts a LB.

We’ve also seen Richt run a ton of bubbles against bad alignments. We saw this A LOT in 2016. We saw it some in 2017 (GTech specifically), but not as much.

We’ve seen wildcat open some stuff up.

We’ve seen 5-wide looks help clarify coverage, especially with QB draws if they show man.

We’ve seen the midline option break out for a big gain. Homer scored a long TD off of it against VTech.

We’ve seen the option of jet sweep motion. Malik scored a TD against LSU with that. I think we saw it against Toledo as well.

We’ve seen a lot of good, sound stuff.

The problem I see is it’s too sporadic. We could be using Thomas more on jet sweep action to see if we can either catch the defense sleeping, or get them to lose leverage while following him.

The motion with Brevin on Cager’s dropped TD late in the 4th was a good play call. They were in zone, and the LB was unsure who he was supposed to cover out of the bunch look.

All of the ingredients are there.

For whatever reason, Richt likes to keep things simple. I’m guessing because he wants the execution to be crisp, so he’s not going into games with a million different plays.

The downside is the offense gets really sluggish when OL execution is below par, which is what we’ve seen since Richt got here.

Another thing is tempo.

Tempo isn’t quite *as* effective as it once was, but it can still be valuable. But we’re just never going to be one of those teams that tries to run 95 plays.

Bottom line: Richt is average. He’s not going to use a lot of eye candy. The stuff that he runs works. But it relies on execution and talent. It is what it is. Richt wants to call plays, so don’t expect Kliff Kingsbury to come in as the OC savior.

While that’s frustrating, the good news is we’re one of the few programs that can actually out-talent people.

If Richt continues to build the offensive line, we’ll be stacked on offense.

Another thing: it’ll be interesting to see how the offense evolves as Kosi gets more experience. Kaaya had lead feet. He was toast in the face of pressure. Rosier was inaccurate and dropped his head as soon as he looked to scramble.

Kosi is top-notch arm talent, and he keeps his eyes up when things break down in the pocket.

I’m eager to see how he develops.
 
k9cane said:
Cleveland Gary in 88 was awesome, such a great outlet and yeah, it set up other stuff downfield. Steven's system also had our backs running patterns in the seams putting pressure on all levels of the defense.

Stevens was great
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Give me Steven's system on Off..and Lubick's on Def and we'd never lose....
 
The other side of the coin is this: if we can’t consistently execute a simple system like the one we run, how comfortable would u even Be at added more complexity to it? It’s on the oline man. Always has been. We need to be able to run the ball consistently
 
DiegoCane said:
Jeff Thomas having 16 offensive touches thru 6 games is downright criminal. Guy should be touching the ball 6-8 times a game minimum.

Miami has 6 important games left in the regular season, if he doesn't touch it offensively 30 times in those games the OC has failed plain and simple.
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Definitely need more creative ways to get him the ball in space. More motion sweeps, slant and go’s, post corners, etc.

I also wouldn’t mind a few more option plays on the edge a where Kosi draws the defender in and pitches to Homer/Dallas. If we can sprinkle in more plays our opponents haven’t seen we’d put up more points easily.
 
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