Is it play-calling or concepts/system?....

Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Messages
4,150
#1
Just wanted to ask this question, I see this a lot( and yes, Im guilty of it as anyone, lol) but it never fails that when Miami dials up a run that gets stuffed, you'll hear,"Richt is too conservative'' or 'this is so predictable!!' or 'Richt is too conservative AND predictable!!'

OK, but if that runs gets 7-8 yards, - well, that's a good play call( even if it was predictable and/or conservative), right? Nobody ever complains when this occurs.

The thing is sometimes you absolutely have to run the ball early in games and on early downs because if you talk to any Olineman that has played at this level and they will tell you that the have to be given the opportunity to come off the ball early on and hit the guy across the line from them and begin the process of wearing them down a bit because it aids in their pass blocking later on.

Also, you have run the ball just to give your defense a rest(and this also means producing first downs consistently, of course). So I'm not always a guy that flips out over every 1st down run that creates 2nd and 9. Now, those 2nd and 9 runs up the middle that lead to 3rd-and-8, yeah, those bother me a lot if you do that too often.

But here's my question: is the real/bigger problem the not the actual play-calls but the design of the plays and concepts within the offense? You watch football at all different levels and you'll see schemes that get guys WIDE open and free in space. Im not sure I see that with the Canes offense, currently.

Ive been told by people who have seen our all-22(the only real way to diagnose a game), former players and read guys on this board who really know the X-and-O's of this game - who I defer to on these matters - that the current system is kinda simplistic, if not archaic, in certain ways. One thing Ive heard time and time again is that in our pass game, we have very little in terms of route combinations( as @LuCane has mentioned numerous times), we dont have a lot of 'beaters'(certain route concepts that are used versus various coverages and alignments) and we are waaay to reliant on all-go verticals, where our WR's are just counted on to beat their guy.

And going back to the last game, it wasnt really the fact that Miami kept running - but running the ball into the A-gap not the perimeter(which many of our more knowledgeable posters believed FSU was very vulnerable on the edge). And the one time I recall a true outside running play, Deejay Dallas broke off a big run on a 2nd and 17. But I didn't see a lot of runs to the outside, overall. The point is though, sometimes running is absolutely the RIGHT call, but it matters how you plan on doing it that is key. Context is important in this regard

This is my one real complaint about this offense - we dont have enough easy throws/completions that our QB(whoever it is) can rely on coming into each game. I know some hate the bubble screen(yeah, they've been Patrick Nix'd) but things like that and short passes into the flat to the running backs(like the one Choc caught for about 15 yards vs FSU) need to be utilized more. Short, easy, quick throws that aren't difficult reads. Get the rock into the hands of our playmakers(and yes, we have them all over, even without Ahmonn Richards)

Is that asking for too much?

Plays of this nature on early downs can serve as your running game to a certain degree. It's how Steve Walsh had the table set for him in many games by Gary Stevens.

Please, tell me if Im full of it - Ok, I AM full of it- but lemme know if Im completely off-base here. I can see the current offensive approach if Richt had the 2001 Oline, but guess what, they don't. And as I like to say: thats why our offense looks like Blockbuster Video in a Netflix world

I read on Twitter from our own @Roman Marciante that the leading receiver on this team is Jeff Thomas - he has all of 16 catches(and he basically missed a game) but 16 catches in six games is your leader? I dunno, that doesn't look like an offense taking full advantage of your playmakers. Hopefully things pick up as N'kosi Perry evolves.

But again, maybe it's just not play-calling
 
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
3,833
#3
I love the work of @Roman Marciante as much as anybody, but I would recommend to all to never miss an @Lance Roffers game break downs. Read them both, and read them every week.

What I'm learning from Lance pushes me into the direction that scheme/system comes down to personal preference. Some guys like this, some guys like that. But the success of any scheme or system comes down to execution. What I see when I read Lance's work is that every play we call has a very good chance for success until someone fvcks up their assignment. Whether it's a missed block, missed read, or a bad route run, there's at least one guy on every single failed play that you can put a bullzeye on, and he's wearing a helmet, not a head set.

The single biggest play I've heard the most criticism about from Saturday was the empty set QB draw play that everyone including the announcers knew was coming. The reason I can't criticize that play call? It was there. The O-line did their job and there was a lane big enough for a dump truck. Perry just bent his cut wide and missed the lane. He should have scored standing up.

Right now we are a team that has talent and experience. The problem is that the talent and experience are usually not found in the same players. Our experienced guys are not very talented, and our talented guys have no experience.
 

AJRob76

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
567
#4
We should also talk about the execution by the players.
 

AJRob76

Sophomore
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
567
#5
I love the work of @Roman Marciante as much as anybody, but I would recommend to all to never miss an @Lance Roffers game break downs. Read them both, and read them every week.

What I'm learning from Lance pushes me into the direction that scheme/system comes down to personal preference. Some guys like this, some guys like that. But the success of any scheme or system comes down to execution. What I see when I read Lance's work is that every play we call has a very good chance for success until someone fvcks up their assignment. Whether it's a missed block, missed read, or a bad route run, there's at least one guy on every single failed play that you can put a bullzeye on, and he's wearing a helmet, not a head set.

The single biggest play I've heard the most criticism about from Saturday was the empty set QB draw play that everyone including the announcers knew was coming. The reason I can't criticize that play call? It was there. The O-line did their job and there was a lane big enough for a dump truck. Perry just bent his cut wide and missed the lane. He should have scored standing up.

Right now we are a team that has talent and experience. The problem is that the talent and experience are usually not found in the same players. Our experienced guys are not very talented, and our talented guys have no experience.
I didn’t see your post before my comment. I totally agree on execution being a major problem.
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
28
#6
I think part of the running game troubles could be helped by different alignment ie QB under center, run out of the eye, split backs, single back etc...especially w/ DJ and his vision, he is made for that.
 
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
4,223
#7
When your center (Linder and Gauthier since Richt have been here) get blown off the ball nearly every snap its impossible to get the run game going. We haven't had a legit LT since Richt got here... blame Golden, blame Richt, blame Searles idk but we haven't had it. Year 1 was way too many penalties and Darling was bad at LT, McDermott and Linder were on the ground nearly every play. Isidora was a very good guard. RT was shaky.

Year 2 was about the same as year 1, less penalties but weaker guard play, and an inconsistent LT.

Year 3 has been decent as far as penalties (outside of game 1). Guard play has been abysmal outside of Boulware and occasionally when Donaldson is at Guard. Scaife is the answer for RT. Still no LT.

Against LSU, guys were running wide open all day and Malik couldn't hit them if he had a clean pocket and other times he was hit before he had a chance to get a ball out. I blame OL for that. That was against a very good secondary. I haven't seen us get that open in any other game this year.

The scheme (or just Richt's play calls in general) calls for a ton of contested 50/50 throws, I hate that. The run game is very bland and I hate that. I would like to see more innovation in the run game, mainly off tackle runs vs right up the gut and start using some wildcat or sweeps to generate those 1st and 2nd down yardage instead of relying on push from the OL to generate anything. Then, I would like to see more easy throws (bubble screens, quick slants, HB screens, stop routes, sit routes, etc. I just see too many NFL throws (4 verts, opposite hash, deep outs, etc)
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
3,870
#8
There's teams doing more with less, period. Whatever you want to attribute that to-- play-calling, scheme, philosophy-- I don't care.
 
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
Messages
792
#9
It’s the same as playing poker. You only remember the bad beats & not the times you suck out on the river.
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Messages
88
#10
Our O line at this time is so inconsistent, that no matter what is called the difference would be negligible....
Indifferent play, inconsistency, and collapsing pockets, all contribute to a porous line at best.
 
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
4,223
#11
I think the OL excuse goes out the window next season. Scaife should be a legit RT or even LT. Donaldson should be permanently at G as a Junior and should be a mauler, Boulware will have a full season, spring, summer, fall in the system as a 5th year senior, Gaynor in his 3rd year at C, and options at LT with Herbert, Campbell, Scaife, and Hillery. Potentially add Neal into that conversation at LT or RT. Have Reed coming off the bench at G.

You'll have a legit QB who can throw and run and knows the system and serious OL talent, no Golden names at all, and all guys this staff wanted. No excuses after that
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2015
Messages
3,358
#13
I think the idea that you need an elite LT to have a good offense is antiquated. Many of the best pass rushers are now LDEs, so they line up over the RT. QBs can see them coming, which makes QBs rush throws. Just need a LT who is solid, not necessarily 1st or 2nd round talent. Hard to believe we don't have anyone fitting that description on the roster.
 

LPK2006

Redshirt Freshman
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
500
#14
This is my one real complaint about this offense - we dont have enough easy throws/completions that our QB(whoever it is) can rely on coming into each game. I know some hate the bubble screen(yeah, they've been Patrick Nix'd) but things like that and short passes into the flat to the running backs(like the one Choc caught for about 15 yards vs FSU) need to be utilized more. Short, easy, quick throws that aren't difficult reads. Get the rock into the hands of our playmakers(and yes, we have them all over, even without Ahmonn Richards)

Is that asking for too much?

Plays of this nature on early downs can serve as your running game to a certain degree. It's how Steve Walsh had the table set for him in many games by Gary Stevens.

The way Stevens used his running backs in the passing game, specifically (but not solely limited to) Highsmith and Bratton, was genius. Lot of easy throws for 5-10 yards. Defenses routinely lost track of the backs out of the backfield. His was my favorite era of Canes offensive football for this reason. It helped that we had great receivers that were constant downfield threats, but hey, we have that now. I think similar concepts would still work in today's game, especially with the personnel we currently have. Put Homer and Dallas in the same backfield. Homer and Gray, Dallas and George, Homer and Lingard....endless possibilities here.
 
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Messages
4,150
#15
The way Stevens used his running backs in the passing game, specifically (but not solely limited to) Highsmith and Bratton, was genius. Lot of easy throws for 5-10 yards. Defenses routinely lost track of the backs out of the backfield. His was my favorite era of Canes offensive football for this reason. It helped that we had great receivers that were constant downfield threats, but hey, we have that now. I think similar concepts would still work in today's game, especially with the personnel we currently have. Put Homer and Dallas in the same backfield. Homer and Gray, Dallas and George, Homer and Lingard....endless possibilities here.
Cleveland Gary in 88 was awesome, such a great outlet and yeah, it set up other stuff downfield. Steven's system also had our backs running patterns in the seams putting pressure on all levels of the defense.

Stevens was great
 
Joined
Aug 4, 2016
Messages
86
#16
I think part of the running game troubles could be helped by different alignment ie QB under center, run out of the eye, split backs, single back etc...especially w/ DJ and his vision, he is made for that.
AMEN BROTHER!
 

Tetragrammaton Cane

Bandwagon Driverless
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
1,714
#17
Brother, you’re preaching to the converted.

It’s both scheme and coaching. As someone else posted too many teams are doing more with less.
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
8,685
#18
Great post @k9cane , I've been saying this since Richt's first year. It mostly relies on out athleting the opponent which is fine for most of our schedule. But you see when we play an athletic D how much the O struggles. Its not going to make any DC not sleep during the week, that is for sure.

The scheme is the biggest downfall because it means we will never win a title unless things change. The playcalling in that scheme is mediocre but the scheme/system is what makes the OL/QB in particular looks worse then they are.

I honestly can't remember a time when we created a busted coverage
 
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
23,507
#19
Are you kidding me starting another thread about this?

As if we are going to miraculously come to an answer?
 
Joined
Nov 2, 2011
Messages
8,685
#20
Jeff Thomas having 16 offensive touches thru 6 games is downright criminal. Guy should be touching the ball 6-8 times a game minimum.

Miami has 6 important games left in the regular season, if he doesn't touch it offensively 30 times in those games the OC has failed plain and simple.
 
Top