Is it play-calling or concepts/system?....

[gogeta4]

Asking you.

I've read the suggestions:
Run the Option with Kosi -- wasn't the gripe he was too skinny? Why would we run the option and give free licks?
Jets Sweeps with Motion -- Probably the only suggestion that has made sense
Sluggo routes in redzone -- I think we ran this on LSU. I bet we ran it a couple of times down low against a coupe of teams we just don't see it
Post Corners -- What do we think JT scored on against panhandle. Completion to Cager that was reviwed as a different way to have the same smash concept. which we run often in this offense
Wildcat -- Maybe. worked a little last year and i do think that DeeJay ALWAYS makes the first guy miss. Not the worse, but it's a gimmick wouldn't you agree?
We have Basic run concepts. Need more Pulling linemen, counter tre, screens -- as i stated earlier we DO run these (screens, pulling OL). 3rd and 3 to seal the game. Jones was supposed to be out in front leading. He sucks so he was running blocking no one. Actually blocked same guy that choc had. We've pulled navaugh a few times, tried pulling st. louis, pulled Brevin, had brevin as the lead blocker on some iso, had him block back to try and get a seal all against panhandle. Problem here is when you have a leaky middle pulling isn't the best option and all it takes is one guy getting beat to look bad. Also we SUCK at cutting off backside defenders. St. Louis and Mahoney being the worse offenders here with Jones. People think we ran the same play because it looks similar, but blocking was so vastly different a lot of the time.
More Formations -- as @CanesAreAble stated we run a lot of formations. How many more formations should we run?
Double back sets -- Who do we want to take off the field? Brevin, Move JT outside where we help the defense by not giving him the WHOLE field to work? I mean i do like the idea of homer and DJ on the field, but can one be the lead blocker for the other? If so then i would like that idea.

I see all of the suggestions, they're just dumb and doesn't fit what we can and can't do well. Wildcat every now and again maybe, more motions jet sweeps ok, but everything else is just....well not smart based on who we have or we do run the **** porsters are asking for they just can't see if when its run.

Dawg we have motioned 5 times in 3 years.

That whole what are we to do...our guys suck so bad...only workS for below avg playcallers. I mean we ran RPO with Kayaa for a full year with him being no threat for actually running the ball. I mean what is your suggestion...just wait for an OL??. I'm just going to give you a heads up the only OL they may get in this class that's prepared to play is NEAL...and he isn't a lock to commit here. SOOOOOOOO?

There's some things our OC can do to make things slightly easier is my opinion.

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

When we have casual fans that can predict our plays. (My father .,.who isn't a football savant by a longshot). Or you have DC'S that have literally called our scheme basic. (Aranda, other ACC coaches). I don't know what to tell you?. Apparently Richt is off limits to some....even though he had play calling duties grabbed from him for good reason at UGA.

We will forever be good at the skills due to recruiting and our location. But is it too much to ask for some creativity to create real disadvantages CONSISTENTLY. The running joke is that we are holding back the playbook for acc play or a big game....and HERE we are 3 years later...awaiting on Manny Sosa to create short field opportunities and the turn over chain to make appearances so we can actually score. Just imagine if this o was clicking and forcing teams to play from behind 2 scores....TURNOVER CHAIN, TURNOVER CHAIN, TURNOVER CHAIN

Our scheme was basic when Aranda had to scout for it. Look who was running it (12). He said it was a deep shot or RPO no intermeidate route concepts. 12's worse throws were intermediate routes...why call them. Our route tree has greatly expanded with the hitches/slants/deep outs/crosses cause 5 is better at throwing them. Do you not agree?

Richt isn't off limits by any means and yes sometimes it does get frustrating, but when you have average/below average players up front (Jones, Mahoney, Gauthier), young players up front, and bad/young QB you are very limited by what you can run. As for wrinkles in the run game. There's only so much you can do. A great example would be for VT and ND last year we started reading the inside DT with the QB zone run game and it took both teams by storm. I think we run them, maybe not as much as people would like tho.

 

[k9cane]

Filtering to D1 oppenents only we are 62nd in the nation in yards per play, 67th in total offense, 67th in plays per game despite being 24th in Time of Possession.

This is a mediocre offense anyway you look at it, far too many athletes for that to be the case.

yeah, there is a real context to this that some leave out..

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Filtering to D1 oppenents only we are 62nd in the nation in yards per play, 67th in total offense, 67th in plays per game despite being 24th in Time of Possession.

This is a mediocre offense anyway you look at it, far too many athletes for that to be the case.

Is that filtering out everyone's FCS opponent or just ours? I don't see anywhere on the NCAA stat site to perform that filter for all teams at once.

 

[gogeta4]

Ok, personally, Ive said this for awhile and many might disagree but I'd go with more spread concepts(3, 4, even 5 wide) , to me, this Oline isn't nearly good enough(as you stated) to do what Richt currently asks of them. Now, some will say going spread might be worse, to me, it's a lesser of two evils , if you can run things that get the ball out of Perry's hands quickly for the most part(and if Im not mistaken, he played this style of ball in high school). It may be overly finesseful(yeah, that's probably not a word, lol) but I believe Erickson would've been a really good coach for this team with his system. In my view, the power/inside run game will struggle vs the good teams we face

To me, our strength as an offense is the WR's(even without Ahmonn Richards) and I would try and find ways to get the ball more to Jeff Thomas(16 catches halfway through the season isn't good) more. But time and time again, I hear from those in the know that this system relies way too much on all-4 verticals, that we have a very limited route tree, in general.

And Id go with more up-tempo(not this slow version of 'the muddle huddle' we presently run). And yeah, this comes with a downside because you risk leaving the defense on the field too long if you can't move the chains.

I dont happen to agree with all this talk of going to more big sets with more of an emphasis on the power run game. Flat out, I don't think that suits are current personnel(as you noted).

I agree with this too. The pressure those wrs would put on defenses will be enough to open up stuff especially if its with REAL TEMPO. I think this is a team that passes to open the run up. Also im not even concerned wit tiring out the d...considering Manny Diaz goes whole series with subbed in guys...I thought he did it for that exact reason. We still bring in Rob Knowles and company anyway....Go to the legit spread hurry up and roll

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

Ok, personally, Ive said this for awhile and many might disagree but I'd go with more spread concepts(3, 4, even 5 wide) , to me, this Oline isn't nearly good enough(as you stated) to do what Richt currently asks of them. Now, some will say going spread might be worse, to me, it's a lesser of two evils , if you can run things that get the ball out of Perry's hands quickly for the most part(and if Im not mistaken, he played this style of ball in high school). It may be overly finesseful(yeah, that's probably not a word, lol) but I believe Erickson would've been a really good coach for this team with his system. In my view, the power/inside run game will struggle vs the good teams we face

To me, our strength as an offense is the WR's(even without Ahmonn Richards) and I would try and find ways to get the ball more to Jeff Thomas(16 catches halfway through the season isn't good) more. But time and time again, I hear from those in the know that this system relies way too much on all-4 verticals, that we have a very limited route tree, in general.

And Id go with more up-tempo(not this slow version of 'the muddle huddle' we presently run). And yeah, this comes with a downside because you risk leaving the defense on the field too long if you can't move the chains.

I dont happen to agree with all this talk of going to more big sets with more of an emphasis on the power run game. Flat out, I don't think that suits are current personnel(as you noted).

I can see us going more 4 5 wide with #5 as our trigger guy for sure. however i think you and i can agree that 12 wasn't the guy to run those formations cause he isn't a very good trigger man. #5 and #15 present us with better throwing options. Something to keep an eye on later as 5 develops and gets more comfortable.

I agree that WR is our strength. I'd like to get 4 more touches, but 1 game he was out and another we threw 12 times cause D put in 3 scores. That's 4 catches a game about. I don't think you can target a WR, with the amount of WR options we have 10-15 times a game. Maybe this is where the jet motion sweeps can come into play, but man i don't want that kid taking to many shots, plus our perimeter blocking has been BUTT this year.

I just want to be able to line up and get 3rd and 3 on the ground. You need a power mentality in my opinion to do that. Its a mindset and mentality that really doesn't jive with spread principles. Catch 22 we have spread athletes, but we don't want to be the candy canes either.

Not sure i'm a fan of the hyper up tempo cause of the conference were in. Our D will be on the field a lot regardless, i think we should try to rest them, but that is juts me.

 

[k9cane]

I agree with this too. The pressure those wrs would put on defenses will be enough to open up stuff especially if its with REAL TEMPO. I think this is a team that passes to open the run up. Also im not even concerned wit tiring out the d...considering Manny Diaz goes whole series with subbed in guys...I thought he did it for that exact reason. We still bring in Rob Knowles and company anyway....Go to the legit spread hurry up and roll

Yeah, Gogeta, I didnt mention that many teams mitigate or off-set really good d-lines by gassing them out and making defenses go very basic in what they can do. Also with our South Florida weather, well, why not see how you could wear these units out.

We dont have to go full Oregon under Chip Kelly or Baylor of the past but I'd like to see it implemented more

 

[k9cane]

I can see us going more 4 5 wide with #5 as our trigger guy for sure. however i think you and i can agree that 12 wasn't the guy to run those formations cause he isn't a very good trigger man. #5 and #15 present us with better throwing options. Something to keep an eye on later as 5 develops and gets more comfortable.

I agree that WR is our strength. I'd like to get 4 more touches, but 1 game he was out and another we threw 12 times cause D put in 3 scores. That's 4 catches a game about. I don't think you can target a WR, with the amount of WR options we have 10-15 times a game. Maybe this is where the jet motion sweeps can come into play, but man i don't want that kid taking to many shots, plus our perimeter blocking has been BUTT this year.

I just want to be able to line up and get 3rd and 3 on the ground. You need a power mentality in my opinion to do that. Its a mindset and mentality that really doesn't jive with spread principles. Catch 22 we have spread athletes, but we don't want to be the candy canes either.

Not sure i'm a fan of the hyper up tempo cause of the conference were in. Our D will be on the field a lot regardless, i think we should try to rest them, but that is juts me.

Oh, 12 isn't even on my mind now, I'm looking forward and I get that FSU was a rivalry game and still has a VERY good front four.

But in regards to Jeff Thomas, remember the 'Randy Ratio' for Randy Moss that Mike Tice tried to implement where they made sure he got touches. OK, that didn't work out well but I agreed with the overall premise. Thomas, every game, has to get touches, the guy is special and I just see looooong stretches were he's not even getting targets. That has to change, in my view

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

Dawg we have motioned 5 times in 3 years.

That whole what are we to do...our guys suck so bad...only workS for below avg playcallers. I mean we ran RPO with Kayaa for a full year with him being no threat for actually running the ball. I mean what is your suggestion...just wait for an OL??. I'm just going to give you a heads up the only OL they may get in this class that's prepared to play is NEAL...and he isn't a lock to commit here. SOOOOOOOO?

There's some things our OC can do to make things slightly easier is my opinion.

RPO is a RUN/PASS option not the zone read. You know the difference i know you do.

What do we do is a good question. I really think Reed/Campbell will help next year and i agree that Neal is no lock and the only one ready to play. But i do like the thought of Neal/Boulware or Reed/Gaynor/Donaldson/scaife with a FB named realus. I also i like Brevin a year older being able to set the edge on outside plays. We miss Herndon there. We're not trash on the ground, but against POWER DLs with some type of athletes we'll struggle. That we will.

I get the motion thing, but we ran motion 3 times last game. it's a start hahaha. I'm not a fan of motion when you don't have great QB play. Don't give the QB another thing to have to think about. Just my opinion.

 

[brock]

Our oline can play terrible at spurts in some games, richt play calling at times makes it look worse, it’s that simple. He has got to change some things up period

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

Oh, 12 isn't even on my mind now, I'm looking forward and I get that FSU was a rivalry game and still has a VERY good front four.

But in regards to Jeff Thomas, remember the 'Randy Ratio' for Randy Moss that Mike Tice tried to implement where they made sure he got touches. OK, that didn't work out well but I agreed with the overall premise. Thomas, every game, has to get touches, the guy is special and I just see looooong stretches were he's not even getting targets. That has to change, in my view

Fair point on the touches with JT. I remember the randy ratio, i also remember when they said theyd be better without Moss HAHAHAHA

 

[k9cane]

I can see us going more 4 5 wide with #5 as our trigger guy for sure. however i think you and i can agree that 12 wasn't the guy to run those formations cause he isn't a very good trigger man. #5 and #15 present us with better throwing options. Something to keep an eye on later as 5 develops and gets more comfortable.

I agree that WR is our strength. I'd like to get 4 more touches, but 1 game he was out and another we threw 12 times cause D put in 3 scores. That's 4 catches a game about. I don't think you can target a WR, with the amount of WR options we have 10-15 times a game. Maybe this is where the jet motion sweeps can come into play, but man i don't want that kid taking to many shots, plus our perimeter blocking has been BUTT this year.

I just want to be able to line up and get 3rd and 3 on the ground. You need a power mentality in my opinion to do that. Its a mindset and mentality that really doesn't jive with spread principles. Catch 22 we have spread athletes, but we don't want to be the candy canes either.

Not sure i'm a fan of the hyper up tempo cause of the conference were in. Our D will be on the field a lot regardless, i think we should try to rest them, but that is juts me.

Fawk, go back to FSU's heyday with Richt running the offense, I loved 'the Fast Break' concept(which was a spread) and it was successful with athletic QB's like Charlie Ward or guys stationary like Weinke. I was really hoping we'd get more of that when he got to UM

I really like how in that system if stuff wasn't open downfield or if the shallow cross wasn't there, there was always a back in the flat that was there to pick up 6, 7, 8 yards. But overall, it got playmakers the ball into space consistently. And that's another thing I'd like our current offense to incorporate a bit more, backs in the passing game. (And there have been times like the UNC fumble where Perry has ignored a guy like Homer who was wide open in the flat)

 

[k9cane]

Fair point on the touches with JT. I remember the randy ratio, i also remember when they said theyd be better without Moss HAHAHAHA

Yeah, even if it's bubbles, reverses(like the one at Toledo) or shuttle screens(which I dont think we've run once this season)- the East St Louis Flyer needs to be involved every series in my view. If you've got a gun like that, load it up with bullets and shoot it often

 

[DiegoCane]

Is that filtering out everyone's FCS opponent or just ours? I don't see anywhere on the NCAA stat site to perform that filter for all teams at once.

All. Check out cfbstats.com, you can filter all kinds of stuff.

 

[supersaiyanshel]

Richt has some legit plays. I think his biggest issue is there's no rhythm to his playcalling.

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

Fawk, go back to FSU's heyday with Richt running the offense, I loved 'the Fast Break' concept(which was a spread) and it was successful with athletic QB's like Charlie Ward or guys stationary like Weinke. I was really hoping we'd get more of that when he got to UM

I really like how in that system if stuff wasn't open downfield or if the shallow cross wasn't there, there was always a back in the flat that was there to pick up 6, 7, 8 yards. But overall, it got playmakers the ball into space consistently. And that's another thing I'd like our current offense to incorporate a bit more, backs in the passing game. (And there have been times like the UNC fumble where Perry has ignored a guy like Homer who was wide open in the flat)

I know the plays well and they look fuggin GREAT when you have a heisman QB regulating that thing. Not trying to go *** for tat, but i'm just saying. It does make a big difference wouldn't you agee?

If we went back and broke down the offensive plays this year you can really get a grasp for how often those concepts/plays are called. they're called, each (screens, designed pass to RB, picks to RB, Cross/curl/flat concept), 2-3 times a game by CMR, or about 20-25%/game with 5 as the QB. That's a clear change from what we saw last year and early on, but for some reason we always seem to be throwing the deep ball. And i mean always hahaha. My point is just about all of the ideas, concepts, plays are being called, except Jet Sweeps & Motion. Maybe they aren't being called enough in the game, and that could be a fair point, but they're called. We just always seem to take a deep shot. Hoping 5 can realize this and get them more invovled.

I don't know why the backs are used more, they're there for the taking more times a game than we're looking. Maybe the real question we should be asking is are the Richt's stressing the backs in the pass game like we think they should, that's fair too.

 

[423Hurricane]

I agree with this too. The pressure those wrs would put on defenses will be enough to open up stuff especially if its with REAL TEMPO. I think this is a team that passes to open the run up. Also im not even concerned wit tiring out the d...considering Manny Diaz goes whole series with subbed in guys...I thought he did it for that exact reason. We still bring in Rob Knowles and company anyway....Go to the legit spread hurry up and roll

I think it's fair to say you probably know more about OL play than most anyone on this board. In your opinion, given the available players, what blocking schemes can be used to help them be successful?

 

[njstateofmind]

Lance does absolutely fabulous work.

I love reading his breakdowns almost as much as I love watching ASMR videos.

 

[305to954]

Just not seeing how any offensive "innovator" would be doing "amazing" things 12 as their QB. Playcallers call plays they think will work based on their personnel. As 5 gets better he will be able to do a few more things. Hopefully the first thing he'll be able to do isbeing gett an accurate count of the box and knowing when to get out of a run play because a second level defender is creeping in the box.

Maybe 5 doesn't have the ability to change up plays at the line, but lets be honest....how many redshirt freshman are given the ability in their 2nd start to change plays? The answer is probably not many. 2nd start, rivalry game, etc, etc, etc, why would you want to complicate things?

With regards to more bubble screens...it's been said all year our perimeter blocking isn't up to par. We threw a couple of bubbles against P5 teams and they weren't the most successful. They were successful against FIU and SSU. With that being said we have to choose our spots for the bubble to be effective. We did, and complete a big one for 10 yards in a great spot in the game. Do you realize we had a 5 minute, 40 yard drive where we converted 1 big 3rd down and 1 big 4th down and never gave the ball back. When was the last time we could say that?

what have we added that we didn’t run with 12?

 

[305to954]

My short take on this is the following:

Our system is simple but it gets guys open. Rosier missed a ton last year and we saw Perry miss a few against FSU. I have no issue with the pass game and I think as Perry gets more comfortable we’ll see consistency and big plays.

Our run game sucks. The concepts suck because there aren’t enough wrinkles. We killed ND last year with the counter to Homer. If you’re going to pound it inside you have throw in some different things once in a while.

We run zone, traps,power and reads..there not much else u can run tbh. It’s just execution. I think the big misconception from fans watching a team like Clemson and wonder why don’t we use the same window dress..they run the same 5 run plays over and over. Just dress it diff. But when they need a money play. It’s a zone split concept