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Dmoney, why so much hype with...

I'll take a more talented Covington. We were 9-3 his last year with a young, undermanned defense. He actually lasted five years in the NFL and started a game for the Rams, albeit briefly.

More than anything, I like the fit with Fisch + Golden + Morris. He has a pro-style skill set with a Golden-type attitude.
 
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Its not Morris that I am worried about. If Miller and Streeter had returned I think Morris would have had a **** of a year. Just not sure we can match those guys numbers just yet.
 
DiegoCane said:
Pennmed Canefan said:
I have to be honest here and say that I think a lot of this is because we really have no great alternative. Before people saw williams some touted him as the starter--grass is always greener. Now most have Accepted the fact that he is not very good leaving us with only Morris as a high potential guy. Thus the faith. I have to say that if Morris really was that close to jacory, the coaches made a profound error. We obviously were not going to be very good last year and it was a total waste not to give this guy the nod if they were neck and neck
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Disagree on the first part. D$, myself, and a few others have been saying this since his freshman year. I'm not sure what there's not to like about Morris, can't wait to watch him get turned loose this year. He's one of the reasons I think the team will be a better then people think.
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What's not to like is that he wasn't good. OK he was a freshman but he wasn't good and being older doesn't just make him good. He threw nearly two times as many picks (by frequency) as Jacory who was portrayed as the greatest turnover machine in history. What if his strong arm keeps throwing it to the other team? Is that not something to dislike?

I'm personally optimistic about Morris to an extent but I don't think we'll see a "more talented Covington." Covington was very consistent his senior year and didn't make many errors. I think he'll find a home somewhere between Covington and Kenny Kelly who was also very talented but wildly erratic. I think we'll see his talent but he's also going to have a legit number of head scratchers. My true hope is that he doesn't lose confidence AND the coaches don't lose any confidence in him when these errors happen.
 
Pennmed Canefan said:
What's not to like is that he wasn't good. OK he was a freshman but he wasn't good and being older doesn't just make him good. He threw nearly two times as many picks (by frequency) as Jacory who was portrayed as the greatest turnover machine in history. What if his strong arm keeps throwing it to the other team? Is that not something to dislike?

I'm personally optimistic about Morris to an extent but I don't think we'll see a "more talented Covington." Covington was very consistent his senior year and didn't make many errors. I think he'll find a home somewhere between Covington and Kenny Kelly who was also very talented but wildly erratic. I think we'll see his talent but he's also going to have a legit number of head scratchers. My true hope is that he doesn't lose confidence AND the coaches don't lose any confidence in him when these errors happen.
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Covington was a backup until his senior year. Morris was making these mistakes as a true freshman off of the scout team. I keep repeating it, but he wasn't even running his own team's offense.

The fact that we're comparing a senior to a fourth-string true freshman is exactly my problem with the "Morris is a turnover machine" meme.

Let's compare him to another rocket-armed, tough quarterback that wasn't afraid to make risky throws: Matt Stafford. This is what they did as freshmen:

Steven Morris (6 games)- 1,240 yards, 53.6%, 8.1 yards per attempt, 7 touchdowns, 9 interceptions
Matt Stafford (13 games)- 1,749 yards, 52.7%, 6.8 yards per attempt, 7 touchdowns, 13 interceptions

Freshman quarterbacks throw picks. That's what they do. What you want to see is talent and competitiveness. Morris answered all of those questions in emphatic fashion in his first start.
 
D, he still needs to take the leap with his brain. Gotta see it to believe it. Don't care if I'm "late" on the projection (speculation). I think you've laid out a pretty solid outline as to why you think he'll do well, but I will never again feel comfortable with any QB until they show comfort in the pocket and the ability to make the mental plays.

I think Dynasty mentioned something important. Dictating things pre-snap. I pray we see a ton of 2 TE early on and a TON of motion. Let Morris get a read on the defense by moving guys around. This is all on Fisch.
 
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DMoney said:
Pennmed Canefan said:
What's not to like is that he wasn't good. OK he was a freshman but he wasn't good and being older doesn't just make him good. He threw nearly two times as many picks (by frequency) as Jacory who was portrayed as the greatest turnover machine in history. What if his strong arm keeps throwing it to the other team? Is that not something to dislike?

I'm personally optimistic about Morris to an extent but I don't think we'll see a "more talented Covington." Covington was very consistent his senior year and didn't make many errors. I think he'll find a home somewhere between Covington and Kenny Kelly who was also very talented but wildly erratic. I think we'll see his talent but he's also going to have a legit number of head scratchers. My true hope is that he doesn't lose confidence AND the coaches don't lose any confidence in him when these errors happen.
Click to expand...

Covington was a backup until his senior year. Morris was making these mistakes as a true freshman off of the scout team. I keep repeating it, but he wasn't even running his own team's offense.

The fact that we're comparing a senior to a fourth-string true freshman is exactly my problem with the "Morris is a turnover machine" meme.

Let's compare him to another rocket-armed, tough quarterback that wasn't afraid to make risky throws: Matt Stafford. This is what they did as freshmen:

Steven Morris (6 games)- 1,240 yards, 53.6%, 8.1 yards per attempt, 7 touchdowns, 9 interceptions
Matt Stafford (13 games)- 1,749 yards, 52.7%, 6.8 yards per attempt, 7 touchdowns, 13 interceptions

Freshman quarterbacks throw picks. That's what they do. What you want to see is talent and competitiveness. Morris answered all of those questions in emphatic fashion in his first start.
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Marve showed talent and competitiveness as well. Didn't change the fact that he was god awful. I like Morris a lot and think he can turn it around. But as of right now, he's looked very average. Throwing a dart every once in a while doesn't change that.
 
I honestly think the main thing holding SM back was that he felt like he was JH's lil bro.(I think the team also felt that way) Now with big bro out of the picture he is ready to take it over the reigns and make it his. He is ready to go into a meeting room as the leader not a JH follower. It would have been very difficult to do that in the past given how much of a student of the game JH was. I think we will see a whole new player in SM. I also think it was the best case scenario for him to be out spring ball, he got to watch and lead. He got to see the offense, see the deficiencies, and know he could do more. I think the light will go on for him and he will be more than just good, and quite a bit better than Scott Covington. This team WILL play with the us against the wall mentality and so will SM!
 
Pennmed Canefan said:
I have to be honest here and say that I think a lot of this is because we really have no great alternative. Before people saw williams some touted him as the starter--grass is always greener. Now most have Accepted the fact that he is not very good leaving us with only Morris as a high potential guy. Thus the faith. I have to say that if Morris really was that close to jacory, the coaches made a profound error. We obviously were not going to be very good last year and it was a total waste not to give this guy the nod if they were neck and neck
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I agree that it was a mistake. But I really think with the state of the program being what it was at the time due to the Shapiro incident, Golden really wanted to avoid any further controversies. And starting Morris over Jacory would have done just that. This was Jacory's team. Golden really risked losing the locker room for not much real gain.
But I don't attribute Jacory "winning" the job due to him being better. He is not as this year will show. More went into the decision than that.
 
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CaneAlmighty said:
Pennmed Canefan said:
I have to be honest here and say that I think a lot of this is because we really have no great alternative. Before people saw williams some touted him as the starter--grass is always greener. Now most have Accepted the fact that he is not very good leaving us with only Morris as a high potential guy. Thus the faith. I have to say that if Morris really was that close to jacory, the coaches made a profound error. We obviously were not going to be very good last year and it was a total waste not to give this guy the nod if they were neck and neck
Click to expand...

I agree that it was a mistake. But I really think with the state of the program being what it was at the time due to the Shapiro incident, Golden really wanted to avoid any further controversies. And starting Morris over Jacory would have done just that. This was Jacory's team. Golden really risked losing the locker room for not much real gain.
But I don't attribute Jacory "winning" the job due to him being better. He is not as this year will show. More went into the decision than that.
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I think you nailed it. Golden and crew were in a tight spot - and Jacory was a senior. You have to go with the commander you have.

I can assure you that Fisch has been going over practices with Morris, the Spring game, and last year's footage - teaching. Asking and teaching. Getting Morris to analyze proficiently, to run his checkdowns quickly, and to take what the defense gives him.

And Olsen won't be a force until at least two more seasons.
 
DMoney said:
Pennmed Canefan said:
What's not to like is that he wasn't good. OK he was a freshman but he wasn't good and being older doesn't just make him good. He threw nearly two times as many picks (by frequency) as Jacory who was portrayed as the greatest turnover machine in history. What if his strong arm keeps throwing it to the other team? Is that not something to dislike?

I'm personally optimistic about Morris to an extent but I don't think we'll see a "more talented Covington." Covington was very consistent his senior year and didn't make many errors. I think he'll find a home somewhere between Covington and Kenny Kelly who was also very talented but wildly erratic. I think we'll see his talent but he's also going to have a legit number of head scratchers. My true hope is that he doesn't lose confidence AND the coaches don't lose any confidence in him when these errors happen.
Click to expand...

Covington was a backup until his senior year. Morris was making these mistakes as a true freshman off of the scout team. I keep repeating it, but he wasn't even running his own team's offense.

The fact that we're comparing a senior to a fourth-string true freshman is exactly my problem with the "Morris is a turnover machine" meme.

Let's compare him to another rocket-armed, tough quarterback that wasn't afraid to make risky throws: Matt Stafford. This is what they did as freshmen:

Steven Morris (6 games)- 1,240 yards, 53.6%, 8.1 yards per attempt, 7 touchdowns, 9 interceptions
Matt Stafford (13 games)- 1,749 yards, 52.7%, 6.8 yards per attempt, 7 touchdowns, 13 interceptions

Freshman quarterbacks throw picks. That's what they do. What you want to see is talent and competitiveness. Morris answered all of those questions in emphatic fashion in his first start.
Click to expand...

Sounds good but do we really need to go through the annals and point out how many strong-armed qb's with twice as many picks as touchdowns did *not* become Matthew Stafford? I am very much in the seeing is believing camp. And I do believe that a lot of the faith in Morris is because we have nothing else. It's funny but Morris was probably at his most unpopular when the season ended and people started talking about Williams and some great competition and all that. Once people got a look at Williams they knew that Morris was our great hope. I am quite aware that Covington was a backup until his senior year but then what are people saying? That Morris this year will look like Covington when he was a sophomore or junior? What does that mean? I think Morris will play somewhere in between senior Covington and Kenny Kelly which would be pretty good but nothing awe-inspiring. It would provide a solid-enough foundation for this team which has so many holes that reasonable (but hardly great) qb play probably won't be the weakness.
 
Why the hype with Morris?

A. He's not Jacory
B. People think he has Elways arm (he doesn't, it's above average imo)
c. He's not Jacory.
 
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Somebody mentioned Marve in this thread or another and I feel that is about what I see in Morris, a smarter Marve! I believe Morris' potential is greater. Everybody talks about how he should be better in the 2nd year with Fisch but sometimes people don't get it.

I hope he goes out and wins a heisman this year but I think I will take the wait and see approach! Dmoney was just talking Morris up quite a bit so I was wondering what he or the coaches were seeing in him.
 
the best reason for optimism with Morris (aside from his physical tools) is the improvement in efficiency that we saw with J12 in 1 season under Fisch. that is why I am moderately optimistic. but I don't expect him to be all world.

we need the 2 TEs (Walford and Cleveland) to step up BIG TIME to help Morris
 
CaneAlmighty said:
Pennmed Canefan said:
I have to be honest here and say that I think a lot of this is because we really have no great alternative. Before people saw williams some touted him as the starter--grass is always greener. Now most have Accepted the fact that he is not very good leaving us with only Morris as a high potential guy. Thus the faith. I have to say that if Morris really was that close to jacory, the coaches made a profound error. We obviously were not going to be very good last year and it was a total waste not to give this guy the nod if they were neck and neck
Click to expand...

I agree that it was a mistake. But I really think with the state of the program being what it was at the time due to the Shapiro incident, Golden really wanted to avoid any further controversies. And starting Morris over Jacory would have done just that. This was Jacory's team. Golden really risked losing the locker room for not much real gain.
But I don't attribute Jacory "winning" the job due to him being better. He is not as this year will show. More went into the decision than that.
Click to expand...
I didn't love the decision (to start Jacory) at that time either, but I think I understand Golden's rationale. I think it was all about preparing for the worst case scenario since neither QB established himself as the clear front runner. If Morris starts and gets hurt, your only back up is Jacory who likely has had his confidence shattered by losing his starting job. A QB without confidence is a recipe for disaster. On the other hand, heading in to last season Jacory had one final chance to make something of himself and live up to the hype. Theoretically he was motivated. So if Jacory is named the starter but gets injured at some point in the season, you still have Morris who wants to step in and prove himself so he solidifies himself as the QB of the near future.
 
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bathtubgin said:
Why the hype with Morris?

A. He's not Jacory
B. People think he has Elways arm (he doesn't, it's above average imo)
c. He's not Jacory.
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I like Morris a little more than this, but you are right. As a fan base we are just ecstatic to be moving on from the Jacory Harris era, it helps that Morris has some talent though.
 
He better be all some here say, and more, or I will ask why the **** he didn't finish out the year as starter once the Canes season was mathematically over (very early, right after the VT game).

I don't want to here how he has really only started 5 or so games and is still young. If he needed more snaps, he should have gotten them.
 
CaneAlmighty said:
Pennmed Canefan said:
I have to be honest here and say that I think a lot of this is because we really have no great alternative. Before people saw williams some touted him as the starter--grass is always greener. Now most have Accepted the fact that he is not very good leaving us with only Morris as a high potential guy. Thus the faith. I have to say that if Morris really was that close to jacory, the coaches made a profound error. We obviously were not going to be very good last year and it was a total waste not to give this guy the nod if they were neck and neck
Click to expand...

I agree that it was a mistake. But I really think with the state of the program being what it was at the time due to the Shapiro incident, Golden really wanted to avoid any further controversies. And starting Morris over Jacory would have done just that. This was Jacory's team. Golden really risked losing the locker room for not much real gain.
But I don't attribute Jacory "winning" the job due to him being better. He is not as this year will show. More went into the decision than that.
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Keep deluding yourself. Jacory got the job because he was better than, and more able to lead the team than Morris was. People need to accept this. There were no ulterior motives.
Coaches are paid to win now, and don't have the luxury of just cashing in a season to prepare for the future the way fans want at times. A coach will lose his players respect, and his job if he were to have that mentality.

Now perhaps Morris takes huge strides this season and becomes a better qb than Jacory ever was, but he wasn't better than Jacory last season.
 
There are some pretty amazing rationales being launched for why this guy didn't start. I guess I'll be foolish and just assume he wasn't as good. And I would suspect the decision wasnt that close for the coaches at least.

My hope is that Morris is a 20/14 type of guy this year then next year we see continued improvement
 
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