Coaching search update

[JHallCanes]

Anyone that thinks butch will work a miracle in year one is insane. He is a good coach but hes never turned a team around in one year.

Look at petrino at loserville. Everyone acted like he was going to kill it and they are struggling.

In general I agree but we have something most teams don't in this situation. A QB and a pretty loaded defense.

 

[Klamalama]

It amazes me how some fans can still sit here and trash Butch's coaching abilities and what he's accomplished in his career. F the "Butch Goggles", I'm speaking as a college football fan, a college football fan who happens to be in love w/ the Miami Hurricanes. When Butch was here, I hated him; thought he was a joke. I thought he was nothing more than Jimmy Johnson's lap dog. I thought he couldn't cut it here. You know why? I had my orange and green shades on. I've followed the Canes since 87, so I was used to see us either in the National Championship game or contending for the National Championship game EVERY year. We were a machine...truth be told, should've had a title in 86, and 94...that would've been 6 titles before Butch took over....

Then Butch takes over and wow...we didn't look anything like the Canes I came to know and love. I hated him for it. I thought he was the demise of the program. Even though I was young, I clearly understood the game of football (so I thought) and by Cane's standards he underachieved.

Then you grow up, and you reflect. You know why the Canes didn't look the same under Butch? B/c they weren't the same. Erickson ran animal house and some folks in the admin dept was aiding that. Butch was called in to not only clean up the program, but maintain our mantra as the Broadstreet Bullies. How?

He took over a program that was called to be terminated by popular media outlets. He took over a program that had no leadership at the top. He took over a program that was this close to being folded. He had some talent on his early teams, but they weren't of the same caliber of the late 80's, early 90's squads. He had to kick off certain players, players who could've contributed right away. A lot went wrong for him...but guess what? A lot was wrong for those teams.

He led us through murky waters, assembling NFL talent, although limited, up and down the roster using creativity. He built us back up to the National Brand everyone was accustomed to...and when he finally got "his" team, he went 11-1 and got snubbed out of a ring. He built what many consider the greatest collection of NFL talent to ever play on one team, players that are still in the NFL today and playing at a high level.

Him at UNC....tough sledding....but he also inherrited a team that had a losing culture. 1 winning season in 6 years and that 1 winning season were hold overs from Mack Brown's regime. Butch took over a different type of sanctioned team....losers mentality. 4-8 first season...awful. Then he began building them up...becoming more competitive, getting them to 8 wins in year two. Duplicated that in year 3....year 4 was supposed to be the turning point and then....UNC was caught cheating. 13 players 60% of them Starters, 3 impact players, gone...yet he pulled out another 8 wins and a bowl victory.

His tenure at UNC wasn't perfect...but neither was that situation. He builds things out of nothing...he's methodical like that. Maybe he's a bit old school...but to think that he's going to have the same struggles by inheriting a talented team w/ no sanctions is asinine. Stop looking at numbers and start peering into what he had to endure, what he accomplished under the circumstances afforded him.

Shame on ANY Cane's fan who are trying to discredit him. You don't have to like him, but grow the F up and realize what he did for both us and UNC was pretty dog on exceptional considering what both programs had to offer after sanctions and a losing mentality.

Would I like Butch to come back? Absolutely...but I'm also a realist...there's a real possibility that magic may not happen twice...but then again, magic might not happen w/ an up and coming AAC coach (see Strong at Texas) or it may not happen w/ an up and coming MAC coach (see Golden here at Miami)...but one thing is for sure, Butch will bring back credibility, stability, and a no-nonsense approach. He may not win a Chip here, but he sure will lay the foundation for the next coach to do so (see Larry Coker 2001-2002 team).

Well said.

It's a **** shame that it had to be written. Too many POTATOES here. Too many that are either too blind to see the obvious, or maliciously deny it.

 

[MIA42178]

Gentlemen, I don't rank NCAA Stats for them. I double checked BC didn't sound right. And no, 25 isn't great. It's probably around the 80's out of 127 teams. But I doubt Butch does same thing here. I'd like him to hire Meacham from TCU and run that offense w a 4-3 Butch Davis dfense

 

[Big Sky Cane]

Name the full roster of NFL players. I mean, if you can make such a bold statement - name them. And if the roster at UNC was NOT full of NFL talent - that would indicate you're FOS. Name them. And then COUNT them.

I can already tell you - you're FOS.

UNC was not exactly a hotbed of hot prospects wanting to go there and play football.

THEN, when a recruit comes on board, his first year, he's a true freshman or if he redshrits, he's a redshirt freshman.

Next year, he's a sophomore. Next year, a junior. It takes THREE years to become a junior.

You're talking about taking a 3-9 team, install a team of NFL players the first year, and then not doing siht with them in year 4 - that takes a ****** to consider such a thing.

But with Butch - IN YEAR FOUR - he went 8-5 with his entire team in turmoil over the NCAA crap, and many of his starters were suspended or had to leave school.

Stupidity is not a virtue.

Well he had 9 players drafted in the 2011 draft(More than any other school in the nation in Butch's last year) 4 offense and 5 on defense.

North Carolina Draft Classes

And I'm sure you'll claim "but half of those players were suspended in 2010". My question to you is: were they still on the team in 09' when they went 8-5 too? I'm sure these players didn't whip into shape and become NFL draft picks because they discovered unfound talent sitting out the year before the draft.

Just admit your boy Davis isn't perfect and move on.

 

[Klamalama]

Name the full roster of NFL players. I mean, if you can make such a bold statement - name them. And if the roster at UNC was NOT full of NFL talent - that would indicate you're FOS. Name them. And then COUNT them.

I can already tell you - you're FOS.

UNC was not exactly a hotbed of hot prospects wanting to go there and play football.

THEN, when a recruit comes on board, his first year, he's a true freshman or if he redshrits, he's a redshirt freshman.

Next year, he's a sophomore. Next year, a junior. It takes THREE years to become a junior.

You're talking about taking a 3-9 team, install a team of NFL players the first year, and then not doing siht with them in year 4 - that takes a ****** to consider such a thing.

But with Butch - IN YEAR FOUR - he went 8-5 with his entire team in turmoil over the NCAA crap, and many of his starters were suspended or had to leave school.

Stupidity is not a virtue.

Well he had 9 players drafted in the 2011 draft(More than any other school in the nation in Butch's last year) 4 offense and 5 on defense.

North Carolina Draft Classes

And I'm sure you'll claim "but half of those players were suspended in 2010". My question to you is: were they still on the team in 09' when they went 8-5 too? I'm sure these players didn't whip into shape and become NFL draft picks because they discovered unfound talent sitting out the year before the draft.

Just admit your boy Davis isn't perfect and move on.

You're the only one that's used the "perfect" adjective.

All things considered (Belichik is already booked), Butch is the best available. History PROVES that he builds winning teams; he's available; he's extremely low risk.

 

[prinmemo]

Name the full roster of NFL players. I mean, if you can make such a bold statement - name them. And if the roster at UNC was NOT full of NFL talent - that would indicate you're FOS. Name them. And then COUNT them.

I can already tell you - you're FOS.

UNC was not exactly a hotbed of hot prospects wanting to go there and play football.

THEN, when a recruit comes on board, his first year, he's a true freshman or if he redshrits, he's a redshirt freshman.

Next year, he's a sophomore. Next year, a junior. It takes THREE years to become a junior.

You're talking about taking a 3-9 team, install a team of NFL players the first year, and then not doing siht with them in year 4 - that takes a ****** to consider such a thing.

But with Butch - IN YEAR FOUR - he went 8-5 with his entire team in turmoil over the NCAA crap, and many of his starters were suspended or had to leave school.

Stupidity is not a virtue.

Well he had 9 players drafted in the 2011 draft(More than any other school in the nation in Butch's last year) 4 offense and 5 on defense.

North Carolina Draft Classes

And I'm sure you'll claim "but half of those players were suspended in 2010". My question to you is: were they still on the team in 09' when they went 8-5 too? I'm sure these players didn't whip into shape and become NFL draft picks because they discovered unfound talent sitting out the year before the draft.

Just admit your boy Davis isn't perfect and move on.

A better way to look at it is draft picks over a four year period. That will provide a better idea of depth during his tenure there.

Butch isn't perfect and without risk, but he has a high floor and ceiling.

 

[oduke1]

It amazes me how some fans can still sit here and trash Butch's coaching abilities and what he's accomplished in his career. F the "Butch Goggles", I'm speaking as a college football fan, a college football fan who happens to be in love w/ the Miami Hurricanes. When Butch was here, I hated him; thought he was a joke. I thought he was nothing more than Jimmy Johnson's lap dog. I thought he couldn't cut it here. You know why? I had my orange and green shades on. I've followed the Canes since 87, so I was used to see us either in the National Championship game or contending for the National Championship game EVERY year. We were a machine...truth be told, should've had a title in 86, and 94...that would've been 6 titles before Butch took over....

Then Butch takes over and wow...we didn't look anything like the Canes I came to know and love. I hated him for it. I thought he was the demise of the program. Even though I was young, I clearly understood the game of football (so I thought) and by Cane's standards he underachieved.

Then you grow up, and you reflect. You know why the Canes didn't look the same under Butch? B/c they weren't the same. Erickson ran animal house and some folks in the admin dept was aiding that. Butch was called in to not only clean up the program, but maintain our mantra as the Broadstreet Bullies. How?

He took over a program that was called to be terminated by popular media outlets. He took over a program that had no leadership at the top. He took over a program that was this close to being folded. He had some talent on his early teams, but they weren't of the same caliber of the late 80's, early 90's squads. He had to kick off certain players, players who could've contributed right away. A lot went wrong for him...but guess what? A lot was wrong for those teams.

He led us through murky waters, assembling NFL talent, although limited, up and down the roster using creativity. He built us back up to the National Brand everyone was accustomed to...and when he finally got "his" team, he went 11-1 and got snubbed out of a ring. He built what many consider the greatest collection of NFL talent to ever play on one team, players that are still in the NFL today and playing at a high level.

Him at UNC....tough sledding....but he also inherrited a team that had a losing culture. 1 winning season in 6 years and that 1 winning season were hold overs from Mack Brown's regime. Butch took over a different type of sanctioned team....losers mentality. 4-8 first season...awful. Then he began building them up...becoming more competitive, getting them to 8 wins in year two. Duplicated that in year 3....year 4 was supposed to be the turning point and then....UNC was caught cheating. 13 players 60% of them Starters, 3 impact players, gone...yet he pulled out another 8 wins and a bowl victory.

His tenure at UNC wasn't perfect...but neither was that situation. He builds things out of nothing...he's methodical like that. Maybe he's a bit old school...but to think that he's going to have the same struggles by inheriting a talented team w/ no sanctions is asinine. Stop looking at numbers and start peering into what he had to endure, what he accomplished under the circumstances afforded him.

Shame on ANY Cane's fan who are trying to discredit him. You don't have to like him, but grow the F up and realize what he did for both us and UNC was pretty dog on exceptional considering what both programs had to offer after sanctions and a losing mentality.

Would I like Butch to come back? Absolutely...but I'm also a realist...there's a real possibility that magic may not happen twice...but then again, magic might not happen w/ an up and coming AAC coach (see Strong at Texas) or it may not happen w/ an up and coming MAC coach (see Golden here at Miami)...but one thing is for sure, Butch will bring back credibility, stability, and a no-nonsense approach. He may not win a Chip here, but he sure will lay the foundation for the next coach to do so (see Larry Coker 2001-2002 team).

"Welly, welly, welly, welly, welly, Relly, rell! To what do I owe the extreme pleasure of this surprising post?"

 

[FullyERicht]

That last season, they had a bunch of guys suspended. If you want to take a shot at Butch or say he's not as good as we want to believe then fine. Having said that, the school can make the coach. Dennis Erickson and Howard Schnellenberger have never been able to duplicate the success they found here.

Everyone keeps harping on Butch's 1 season where he had guys suspended. He coached 4 years at UNC. And to simply assume he would have destroyed everyone in that season where he had guys suspended is a joke. You can't make that assumption.

Unless one is simple minded - it works like this.

Take over a three-win team, start to recruit football players where no one really wants to play. You get a few, next year a few more, and you're coaching them up, and with some starting to become juniors or seniors, you really start to see the payoff.

THEN, a significant number of your starters are suspended.

You anti-Butch guys are not just stupid, you're intentionally stupid - and of the two, being intentionally stupid is just childish.

Sorry your punk-assed-no-body-of-work-coaching-choice isn't going to even get a sniff - but for the rest of the world, those who have paid their dues are usually selected over those who are still wet behind the ears.

Choke on it.

Facts:
1. I'm not anti-Butch; I'm pro-UM getting the best HC possible.
2. Butch had a roster full of NFL players at UNC.
3. Butch couldn't sniff a lousy Coastal title in 4 years.

You can bluster and call me stupid until your ears turn purple, but you can't change the fact that Butch's results at his last job were desultory aside from providing the NFL with more good players. His offenses were absolutely dreadful, and his defenses were pedestrian 3 out of 4 years.

I wouldn't hate a Butch hire. I just realize he is who he is, and if he does turn this thing around, it'll likely take him 3 or 4 years. In the interim, there will be plenty of head-scratching losses (remember ECU two times?) and lots of heartache and excuses from Butch's cult leaders.

I just don't get the it'll take him 3 to 4 years to turn it around argument. I'm assuming this is because that's how long it took him on his first go around here and that's how long it took for him to build up UNC.

But the fact is, the situations are completely different. Yes, it took him 4 years to build us up the first time, but we were under SEVERE NCAA sanctions. 30 scholarships? It took him 3-4 years at UNC because he had to build them up. The parts weren't in place.

Here, I'm sure most fans will agree that the talent is there. We have the foundation in place. Sure, we need to tweak it here and there but we have a good class coming in. This is not a complete rebuild and we are not under severe NCAA sanctions.

What we need is somebody to lead us and that understands SFL football talent and that has SFL connections. I highly doubt its going to take 3-4 years this time around.

Why the **** do people continue to say this???? Jimmy and Dennis won more games combined than any coaching combo in UM history. Neither had a **** bit of connection to South Florida.

 

[prinmemo]

Name the full roster of NFL players. I mean, if you can make such a bold statement - name them. And if the roster at UNC was NOT full of NFL talent - that would indicate you're FOS. Name them. And then COUNT them.

I can already tell you - you're FOS.

UNC was not exactly a hotbed of hot prospects wanting to go there and play football.

THEN, when a recruit comes on board, his first year, he's a true freshman or if he redshrits, he's a redshirt freshman.

Next year, he's a sophomore. Next year, a junior. It takes THREE years to become a junior.

You're talking about taking a 3-9 team, install a team of NFL players the first year, and then not doing siht with them in year 4 - that takes a ****** to consider such a thing.

But with Butch - IN YEAR FOUR - he went 8-5 with his entire team in turmoil over the NCAA crap, and many of his starters were suspended or had to leave school.

Stupidity is not a virtue.

Well he had 9 players drafted in the 2011 draft(More than any other school in the nation in Butch's last year) 4 offense and 5 on defense.

North Carolina Draft Classes

And I'm sure you'll claim "but half of those players were suspended in 2010". My question to you is: were they still on the team in 09' when they went 8-5 too? I'm sure these players didn't whip into shape and become NFL draft picks because they discovered unfound talent sitting out the year before the draft.

Just admit your boy Davis isn't perfect and move on.

A better way to look at it is draft picks over a four year period. That will provide a better idea of depth during his tenure there.

Butch isn't perfect and without risk, but he has a high floor and ceiling.

UNC had 16 NFL draft picks while Butch was coach. 60% of those picks were in his last season there. Most of those guys were suspended at some point during the season.

 

[FullyERicht]

My biggest reason for not having Butch #1 isn't even bc of UNC.

It's because I've watched a ton of sports in my life, I've rooted with tremendous passion and deep following of several teams across major sports.

And never have I seen it work out when you bring back a relic from the past.

Not Cito Gaston, not Joe Gibbs, not Yogi Berra.

Butch Davis began his career here TWENTY years ago. He left here 15 years ago. I dont want a coach on the downside. That's what the Phins got with JJ, what the Cowboys got with Parcells. Get a coach who is trending upward or in his coaching prime.

 

[prinmemo]

My biggest reason for not having Butch #1 isn't even bc of UNC.

It's because I've watched a ton of sports in my life, I've rooted with tremendous passion and deep following of several teams across major sports.

And never have I seen it work out when you bring back a relic from the past.

Not Cito Gaston, not Joe Gibbs, not Yogi Berra.

Butch Davis began his career here TWENTY years ago. He left here 15 years ago. I dont want a coach on the downside. That's what the Phins got with JJ, what the Cowboys got with Parcells. Get a coach who is trending upward or in his coaching prime.

One big difference: Butch is hungry to win a NC and make amends for what happened.

JJ had 1 national championship and two super bowl rings, Parcells had won a super bowl ring, same thing with Gibbs.

Actually, every single example you gave includes a championship past, which makes you wonder if they had lost their fire. Not the case with Butch.

Oh, and Parcells took NE to the super bowl and had Dallas return to elite status.

 

[Hurracanes]

It amazes me how some fans can still sit here and trash Butch's coaching abilities and what he's accomplished in his career. F the "Butch Goggles", I'm speaking as a college football fan, a college football fan who happens to be in love w/ the Miami Hurricanes. When Butch was here, I hated him; thought he was a joke. I thought he was nothing more than Jimmy Johnson's lap dog. I thought he couldn't cut it here. You know why? I had my orange and green shades on. I've followed the Canes since 87, so I was used to see us either in the National Championship game or contending for the National Championship game EVERY year. We were a machine...truth be told, should've had a title in 86, and 94...that would've been 6 titles before Butch took over....

Then Butch takes over and wow...we didn't look anything like the Canes I came to know and love. I hated him for it. I thought he was the demise of the program. Even though I was young, I clearly understood the game of football (so I thought) and by Cane's standards he underachieved.

Then you grow up, and you reflect. You know why the Canes didn't look the same under Butch? B/c they weren't the same. Erickson ran animal house and some folks in the admin dept was aiding that. Butch was called in to not only clean up the program, but maintain our mantra as the Broadstreet Bullies. How?

He took over a program that was called to be terminated by popular media outlets. He took over a program that had no leadership at the top. He took over a program that was this close to being folded. He had some talent on his early teams, but they weren't of the same caliber of the late 80's, early 90's squads. He had to kick off certain players, players who could've contributed right away. A lot went wrong for him...but guess what? A lot was wrong for those teams.

He led us through murky waters, assembling NFL talent, although limited, up and down the roster using creativity. He built us back up to the National Brand everyone was accustomed to...and when he finally got "his" team, he went 11-1 and got snubbed out of a ring. He built what many consider the greatest collection of NFL talent to ever play on one team, players that are still in the NFL today and playing at a high level.

Him at UNC....tough sledding....but he also inherrited a team that had a losing culture. 1 winning season in 6 years and that 1 winning season were hold overs from Mack Brown's regime. Butch took over a different type of sanctioned team....losers mentality. 4-8 first season...awful. Then he began building them up...becoming more competitive, getting them to 8 wins in year two. Duplicated that in year 3....year 4 was supposed to be the turning point and then....UNC was caught cheating. 13 players 60% of them Starters, 3 impact players, gone...yet he pulled out another 8 wins and a bowl victory.

His tenure at UNC wasn't perfect...but neither was that situation. He builds things out of nothing...he's methodical like that. Maybe he's a bit old school...but to think that he's going to have the same struggles by inheriting a talented team w/ no sanctions is asinine. Stop looking at numbers and start peering into what he had to endure, what he accomplished under the circumstances afforded him.

Shame on ANY Cane's fan who are trying to discredit him. You don't have to like him, but grow the F up and realize what he did for both us and UNC was pretty dog on exceptional considering what both programs had to offer after sanctions and a losing mentality.

Would I like Butch to come back? Absolutely...but I'm also a realist...there's a real possijbility that magic may not happen twice...but then again, magic might not happen w/ an up and coming AAC coach (see Strong at Texas) or it may not happen w/ an up and coming MAC coach (see Golden here at Miami)...but one thing is for sure, Butch will bring back credibility, stability, and a no-nonsense approach. He may not win a Chip here, but he sure will lay the foundation for the next coach to do so (see Larry Coker 2001-2002 team).

Well said. Salute!

 

[The Franchise]

Unless one is simple minded - it works like this.

Take over a three-win team, start to recruit football players where no one really wants to play. You get a few, next year a few more, and you're coaching them up, and with some starting to become juniors or seniors, you really start to see the payoff.

THEN, a significant number of your starters are suspended.

You anti-Butch guys are not just stupid, you're intentionally stupid - and of the two, being intentionally stupid is just childish.

Sorry your punk-assed-no-body-of-work-coaching-choice isn't going to even get a sniff - but for the rest of the world, those who have paid their dues are usually selected over those who are still wet behind the ears.

Choke on it.

Facts:
1. I'm not anti-Butch; I'm pro-UM getting the best HC possible.
2. Butch had a roster full of NFL players at UNC.
3. Butch couldn't sniff a lousy Coastal title in 4 years.

You can bluster and call me stupid until your ears turn purple, but you can't change the fact that Butch's results at his last job were desultory aside from providing the NFL with more good players. His offenses were absolutely dreadful, and his defenses were pedestrian 3 out of 4 years.

I wouldn't hate a Butch hire. I just realize he is who he is, and if he does turn this thing around, it'll likely take him 3 or 4 years. In the interim, there will be plenty of head-scratching losses (remember ECU two times?) and lots of heartache and excuses from Butch's cult leaders.

I just don't get the it'll take him 3 to 4 years to turn it around argument. I'm assuming this is because that's how long it took him on his first go around here and that's how long it took for him to build up UNC.

But the fact is, the situations are completely different. Yes, it took him 4 years to build us up the first time, but we were under SEVERE NCAA sanctions. 30 scholarships? It took him 3-4 years at UNC because he had to build them up. The parts weren't in place.

Here, I'm sure most fans will agree that the talent is there. We have the foundation in place. Sure, we need to tweak it here and there but we have a good class coming in. This is not a complete rebuild and we are not under severe NCAA sanctions.

What we need is somebody to lead us and that understands SFL football talent and that has SFL connections. I highly doubt its going to take 3-4 years this time around.

It's really not that hard if you take off the Butch goggles.

You mention sanctions at UM, and that was clearly a valid reason for some of his mishaps a couple years after he got here. However, there was zero effect from sanctions for a couple years. In fact, he took over a team that was playing for an outside shot at a NC a few months earlier. In his first game, he got absolutely destroyed by UCLA. He looked lost his first game, and he didn't look that much less lost his final game at UNC.

No one expected him to win a NC at UNC. I think, however, it would have been more than reasonable to expect a measly Coastal title or two with a roster stacked with NFL talent. If you can't see that then you don't want to see it.

The guy has been a HC for 14 years and had one top flight season. If you think that's a fast turnaround guy then you're going to be heartbroken if he gets the gig.

I think your ignorance of what happened when Butch got to UM is showing. Just as happens very often when a new coach comes in - lots of players left.

Just like when Golden came.

So when you say there was zero effect for a couple years - you're FOS. Between trying to get new recruits, he was also forced to play a number of freshmen before he wanted to.

Then they didn't have enough team members to even scrimmage. There were a couple team photos that looked like they were taken at a small community college.

If I were you, you may want to stick to cooking threads.

Because it's not what you don't know on these threads that's the entire problem, it's that you know so much that is false, misleading, untrue, and outright misrepresentations.

You got nothing but excuses for Butch's failures. It's going to be sad to see you heel-digging if he gets hired and goes 8-4 next year. You'll be trying to convince everyone it's Folden's fault and that Butch needs to change the culture.

It's a shame you Butch cultists are destroying the coaching threads.

 

[The Franchise]

That last season, they had a bunch of guys suspended. If you want to take a shot at Butch or say he's not as good as we want to believe then fine. Having said that, the school can make the coach. Dennis Erickson and Howard Schnellenberger have never been able to duplicate the success they found here.

Everyone keeps harping on Butch's 1 season where he had guys suspended. He coached 4 years at UNC. And to simply assume he would have destroyed everyone in that season where he had guys suspended is a joke. You can't make that assumption.

Unless one is simple minded - it works like this.

Take over a three-win team, start to recruit football players where no one really wants to play. You get a few, next year a few more, and you're coaching them up, and with some starting to become juniors or seniors, you really start to see the payoff.

THEN, a significant number of your starters are suspended.

You anti-Butch guys are not just stupid, you're intentionally stupid - and of the two, being intentionally stupid is just childish.

Sorry your punk-assed-no-body-of-work-coaching-choice isn't going to even get a sniff - but for the rest of the world, those who have paid their dues are usually selected over those who are still wet behind the ears.

Choke on it.

Facts:
1. I'm not anti-Butch; I'm pro-UM getting the best HC possible.
2. Butch had a roster full of NFL players at UNC.
3. Butch couldn't sniff a lousy Coastal title in 4 years.

You can bluster and call me stupid until your ears turn purple, but you can't change the fact that Butch's results at his last job were desultory aside from providing the NFL with more good players. His offenses were absolutely dreadful, and his defenses were pedestrian 3 out of 4 years.

I wouldn't hate a Butch hire. I just realize he is who he is, and if he does turn this thing around, it'll likely take him 3 or 4 years. In the interim, there will be plenty of head-scratching losses (remember ECU two times?) and lots of heartache and excuses from Butch's cult leaders.

jus listen to archer he got posts up da *** bout butch da god, if he cant convince u no one can.

I'll pass on the listen to archer suggestion. Thanks though.

 

[Dwinstitles]

**** rell done ethered da whole site, its a shame u have to write that to these fkin bozos who r blind.

 

[The Franchise]

Name the full roster of NFL players. I mean, if you can make such a bold statement - name them. And if the roster at UNC was NOT full of NFL talent - that would indicate you're FOS. Name them. And then COUNT them.

I can already tell you - you're FOS.

UNC was not exactly a hotbed of hot prospects wanting to go there and play football.

THEN, when a recruit comes on board, his first year, he's a true freshman or if he redshrits, he's a redshirt freshman.

Next year, he's a sophomore. Next year, a junior. It takes THREE years to become a junior.

You're talking about taking a 3-9 team, install a team of NFL players the first year, and then not doing siht with them in year 4 - that takes a ****** to consider such a thing.

But with Butch - IN YEAR FOUR - he went 8-5 with his entire team in turmoil over the NCAA crap, and many of his starters were suspended or had to leave school.

Stupidity is not a virtue.

Well he had 9 players drafted in the 2011 draft(More than any other school in the nation in Butch's last year) 4 offense and 5 on defense.

North Carolina Draft Classes

And I'm sure you'll claim "but half of those players were suspended in 2010". My question to you is: were they still on the team in 09' when they went 8-5 too? I'm sure these players didn't whip into shape and become NFL draft picks because they discovered unfound talent sitting out the year before the draft.

Just admit your boy Davis isn't perfect and move on.

Careful. You just made the Butch Cult hit list.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Facts:
1. I'm not anti-Butch; I'm pro-UM getting the best HC possible.
2. Butch had a roster full of NFL players at UNC.
3. Butch couldn't sniff a lousy Coastal title in 4 years.

You can bluster and call me stupid until your ears turn purple, but you can't change the fact that Butch's results at his last job were desultory aside from providing the NFL with more good players. His offenses were absolutely dreadful, and his defenses were pedestrian 3 out of 4 years.

I wouldn't hate a Butch hire. I just realize he is who he is, and if he does turn this thing around, it'll likely take him 3 or 4 years. In the interim, there will be plenty of head-scratching losses (remember ECU two times?) and lots of heartache and excuses from Butch's cult leaders.

I just don't get the it'll take him 3 to 4 years to turn it around argument. I'm assuming this is because that's how long it took him on his first go around here and that's how long it took for him to build up UNC.

But the fact is, the situations are completely different. Yes, it took him 4 years to build us up the first time, but we were under SEVERE NCAA sanctions. 30 scholarships? It took him 3-4 years at UNC because he had to build them up. The parts weren't in place.

Here, I'm sure most fans will agree that the talent is there. We have the foundation in place. Sure, we need to tweak it here and there but we have a good class coming in. This is not a complete rebuild and we are not under severe NCAA sanctions.

What we need is somebody to lead us and that understands SFL football talent and that has SFL connections. I highly doubt its going to take 3-4 years this time around.

It's really not that hard if you take off the Butch goggles.

You mention sanctions at UM, and that was clearly a valid reason for some of his mishaps a couple years after he got here. However, there was zero effect from sanctions for a couple years. In fact, he took over a team that was playing for an outside shot at a NC a few months earlier. In his first game, he got absolutely destroyed by UCLA. He looked lost his first game, and he didn't look that much less lost his final game at UNC.

No one expected him to win a NC at UNC. I think, however, it would have been more than reasonable to expect a measly Coastal title or two with a roster stacked with NFL talent. If you can't see that then you don't want to see it.

The guy has been a HC for 14 years and had one top flight season. If you think that's a fast turnaround guy then you're going to be heartbroken if he gets the gig.

I think your ignorance of what happened when Butch got to UM is showing. Just as happens very often when a new coach comes in - lots of players left.

Just like when Golden came.

So when you say there was zero effect for a couple years - you're FOS. Between trying to get new recruits, he was also forced to play a number of freshmen before he wanted to.

Then they didn't have enough team members to even scrimmage. There were a couple team photos that looked like they were taken at a small community college.

If I were you, you may want to stick to cooking threads.

Because it's not what you don't know on these threads that's the entire problem, it's that you know so much that is false, misleading, untrue, and outright misrepresentations.

You got nothing but excuses for Butch's failures. It's going to be sad to see you heel-digging if he gets hired and goes 8-4 next year. You'll be trying to convince everyone it's Folden's fault and that Butch needs to change the culture.

It's a shame you Butch cultists are destroying the coaching threads.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll be glad to see you STFU when Butch starts popping wins like Orville Redenbacher pops corn.

We're going to go through the ACC like crap through a goose - and THAT my friend is how you get into the playoffs.

You're correct in not taking my suggestions - 1. It probably won't fit, and 2. It probably won't shove that far.

 

[LuCane]

My biggest reason for not having Butch #1 isn't even bc of UNC.

It's because I've watched a ton of sports in my life, I've rooted with tremendous passion and deep following of several teams across major sports.

And never have I seen it work out when you bring back a relic from the past.

Not Cito Gaston, not Joe Gibbs, not Yogi Berra.

Butch Davis began his career here TWENTY years ago. He left here 15 years ago. I dont want a coach on the downside. That's what the Phins got with JJ, what the Cowboys got with Parcells. Get a coach who is trending upward or in his coaching prime.

It's an interesting point I hadn't seen before. I'd note that he "left" on different terms than everyone "left" other than JJ. What makes the point so interesting is that JJ came back to a different NFL. And, that would be my biggest concern when Butch is named HC here: will he adjust to how college football has changed in the last half decade? Because it has definitely changed.

 

[Klamalama]

I just don't get the it'll take him 3 to 4 years to turn it around argument. I'm assuming this is because that's how long it took him on his first go around here and that's how long it took for him to build up UNC.

But the fact is, the situations are completely different. Yes, it took him 4 years to build us up the first time, but we were under SEVERE NCAA sanctions. 30 scholarships? It took him 3-4 years at UNC because he had to build them up. The parts weren't in place.

Here, I'm sure most fans will agree that the talent is there. We have the foundation in place. Sure, we need to tweak it here and there but we have a good class coming in. This is not a complete rebuild and we are not under severe NCAA sanctions.

What we need is somebody to lead us and that understands SFL football talent and that has SFL connections. I highly doubt its going to take 3-4 years this time around.

It's really not that hard if you take off the Butch goggles.

You mention sanctions at UM, and that was clearly a valid reason for some of his mishaps a couple years after he got here. However, there was zero effect from sanctions for a couple years. In fact, he took over a team that was playing for an outside shot at a NC a few months earlier. In his first game, he got absolutely destroyed by UCLA. He looked lost his first game, and he didn't look that much less lost his final game at UNC.

No one expected him to win a NC at UNC. I think, however, it would have been more than reasonable to expect a measly Coastal title or two with a roster stacked with NFL talent. If you can't see that then you don't want to see it.

The guy has been a HC for 14 years and had one top flight season. If you think that's a fast turnaround guy then you're going to be heartbroken if he gets the gig.

I think your ignorance of what happened when Butch got to UM is showing. Just as happens very often when a new coach comes in - lots of players left.

Just like when Golden came.

So when you say there was zero effect for a couple years - you're FOS. Between trying to get new recruits, he was also forced to play a number of freshmen before he wanted to.

Then they didn't have enough team members to even scrimmage. There were a couple team photos that looked like they were taken at a small community college.

If I were you, you may want to stick to cooking threads.

Because it's not what you don't know on these threads that's the entire problem, it's that you know so much that is false, misleading, untrue, and outright misrepresentations.

You got nothing but excuses for Butch's failures. It's going to be sad to see you heel-digging if he gets hired and goes 8-4 next year. You'll be trying to convince everyone it's Folden's fault and that Butch needs to change the culture.

It's a shame you Butch cultists are destroying the coaching threads.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll be glad to see you STFU when Butch starts popping wins like Orville Redenbacher pops corn.

We're going to go through the ACC like crap through a goose - and THAT my friend is how you get into the playoffs.

You're correct in not taking my suggestions - 1. It probably won't fit, and 2. It probably won't shove that far.

Taking no prisoners! Kill em all.

 

[KevinCaneFace]

The fact that Mack Brown took five years to get more than 8 wins shows that we should be a little less harsh on Butch since he only had three years with a full roster.