Character

[Empirical Cane]

Is this another attempt at self-congratulation? You're priceless, Empy.

Actually no.

But now that you mention it.....

your welcome.

 

[orange&green84]

Our HCs have been **** leaders forever. Fans are too easy on HCs. They think they're getting paid $4M per year just to scheme in a lab. Their primary job is leadership and direction. Dabo couldn't scheme his way out of a wet paper bag.

They make the money they make for a reason. And with that money comes the expectations and responsibility for anything and everything that happens within their programs. Anytime the program's going south, the first person to look at is the HC.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Character matters. Our top three character guys were our first three picks this weekend. Jeff Thomas and Trevon Hill still haven’t found a team.

We were excited at the time, but in retrospect, the culture was poisoned when Manny did the following:

1) Convinced Jarren to stay;
2) Signed an OC with the idea that he would “fix” Jarren and the other QBs;
3) Begged Jeff to come back;
4) Signed Hill after he got kicked out of another program;
5) Signed Tate after he quit another program; and
5) Tweet bragged about all of the above.

We need to learn our lesson going forward. There are no short-cuts. The only way to build a culture is to be careful and consistent about who you let in the building. That is the secret at Clemson.

For the record, a LOT of posters pointed this all out, every step of the way.

Character has always mattered, always will.

 

[Cribby]

Character matters. Our top three character guys were our first three picks this weekend. Jeff Thomas and Trevon Hill still haven’t found a team.

We were excited at the time, but in retrospect, the culture was poisoned when Manny did the following:

1) Convinced Jarren to stay;
2) Signed an OC with the idea that he would “fix” Jarren and the other QBs;
3) Begged Jeff to come back;
4) Signed Hill after he got kicked out of another program;
5) Signed Tate after he quit another program; and
5) Tweet bragged about all of the above.

We need to learn our lesson going forward. There are no short-cuts. The only way to build a culture is to be careful and consistent about who you let in the building. That is the secret at Clemson.

I posted a few of these and “ some people “ didn’t want to hear it, not kicking JW off bit the staff and allowing JT back killed the excuse of “ building culture. People were so blinded by talent they couldn’t see guys like this kill your locker room and culture. Then young guys see this and they think it’s acceptable.

Thats why Mandy annoys me with all the culture talk , you allowed a guy back that flat out quit during the season and said I’m out. The same guy you saw walk through drills , skip morning workouts and a lot more drama that amazingly was kept in house.

I will give Mandy credit on that , dude keeps stuff in house like it’s North Korea. What’s sad is JW and Thomas are far from the only knuckleheads but they get the most heat. There was divide in the locker room , guys that wanted to win and do things right. Then the ones who want to party and stay high 24/7.

Ironically the guys drafted are the guys who actually cared, busted their *** and were great teammates.

 

[Ethnicsands]

I agree with the overall sentiment and have been tooting the character horn for 25 years on these boards. Character in football is a HUGE factor. In fact, it's part of the reason Booch David has been the best evaluator in history. He always said that if he had to choose between a slightly better athlete with bad character or a slightly lesser athlete with great character, he's picking the latter.

I don't agree with 5 because any transfer is technically a "quitter." There are good transfers with good character. You just have to be a better evaluator.

Again, it all comes down to evaluation, and character is a huge component in the evaluation process. The rummies of CIS just see stars or 40 times, and that's all they care about.

The issue with Tate wasn’t we took him as a transfer. It’s we allowed him to quit in disappointment when he lost the job, then come back like nothing happened.

 

[Cribby]

For the record, a LOT of posters pointed this all out, every step of the way.

Character has always mattered, always will.

The 2001 team was nothing but heart and character. They were very talented but they cared so much that’s what made them special. Most were good dudes on top of it.

 

[Cribby]

The issue with Tate wasn’t we took him as a transfer. It’s we allowed him to quit in disappointment when he lost the job, then come back like nothing happened.

This.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Sure. Plenty of guys with “character” issues got drafted over the weekend. Bottom line is that their production outweighed their perceived lack of character. JT & Hill’s production didn’t.

Miami has been a total **** show on offense for YEARS. Most of our WRs have gone undrafted or in late rounds. Check the numbers. We have been awful. JT would have been better off going somewhere else for multiple reasons - production, location, and mentoring.

You’re missing at least half the point.
Character matters to teams‘ cultures. The draft illustrates a point that has been discussed here around our culture. That isn’t refuted because some nfl team with different people, leadership and needs takes a risk on some kid with great measurables.

Secondly, just because character matters doesn’t mean it’s the only thing that matters. Exceptional athletes get more slack, because ... results.

Third, some kids are great teammates even if they aren’t ‘nice’ to others. Quitting on your team or not putting in the work and effort is a different type of character deficiency from being an *******.

Manny tolerated multiple actual quitters returning to the team. That’s pathetic.

 

[Cribby]

Most QBs transfer because of competition. Only one can play. Tate left Ohio Taint because Day went out and got Fields to be his starter. Anyone else, who wanted to play, would have done the same thing.

George Brown has nothing to do with Tate. QB is just different. Heaps just sucked. Not sure he was a character deal.

Tate leaving during the seasons for “ mental issues” then posting all kinds of pics on the beach with his thot was a horrible look. While his teammates are getting waxed weekly. I’ve made excuses for tater but that’s when I was done with him.

 

[Ethnicsands]

***** tried covering a sliced artery with a WalMart band aid....

Manny was the guy who sliced it.

 

[Cribby]

Exactly. Which is why I said JT would have been better off going somewhere else. Think about it. Richt’s S&C coach wasn’t even showing up for workouts at times. The LEADERSHIP has been ultra trash.

Lol at him “needing to go somewhere else”.

Dude was lazy as **** , didn’t want to work and if you dare get on to him or call him out he’d go in shell pouting like a baby. So they just let him do whatever the f he wanted when they allowed him back. Richt was over his **** and the baby sitting.

 

[Cribby]

You’re missing at least half the point.
Character matters to teams‘ cultures. The draft illustrates a point that has been discussed here around our culture. That isn’t refuted because some nfl team with different people, leadership and needs takes a risk on some kid with great measurables.

Secondly, just because character matters doesn’t mean it’s the only thing that matters. Exceptional athletes get more slack, because ... results.

Third, some kids are great teammates even if they aren’t ‘nice’ to others. Quitting on your team or not putting in the work and effort is a different type of character deficiency from being an *******.

Manny tolerated multiple actual quitters returning to the team. That’s pathetic.

If half of your team is lazy or lacking character you’re f’d. One here and there is fine , but if you have a culture they’re contained.

 

[1LuvCane]

Lol at him “needing to go somewhere else”.

Dude was lazy as **** , didn’t want to work and if you dare get on to him or call him out he’d go in shell pouting like a baby. So they just let him do whatever the f he wanted when they allowed him back. Richt was over his **** and the baby sitting.

Miami haters always find an angle...
Jt4 is mentally damaged goods no matter where he went.

 

[Mandingo]

You’re missing at least half the point.
Character matters to teams‘ cultures. The draft illustrates a point that has been discussed here around our culture. That isn’t refuted because some nfl team with different people, leadership and needs takes a risk on some kid with great measurables.

Secondly, just because character matters doesn’t mean it’s the only thing that matters. Exceptional athletes get more slack, because ... results.

Read the first few sentences again.

 

[CaneFanWNY]

Character and leadership needs to start at the top as well, which we've been missing going alllll the way back to Coker.

Clappy just threw darts at star rankings and had no hands on approach on handling team infrastructure ever since being a meat puppet to "guide" his championship teams into coaching theirselves

Shannon has social anxiety and never should have been put in the spot he was under with us

Golden valued keeping his friends employed and shut everyone else's opinion/factual assessments out

Richt was on a retirement tour and clearly didnt give a fvck and just wanted to call plays and give Jon a paycheck

Manny is an enabler and caters to what every single player wants to do and tries to look cool doing so, at the expense of cohesiveness in the locker room.

No leaders, no one to put someone falling out of line on their *** or out of the program. It's hard to be a leader on this team like Shaq or Duke when you have those odds against you and no one above you gives a fvck enough to step in

 

[Ethnicsands]

Good examples. There is also a longer list of Jake Heaps types that didn’t do anything.

George Brown and Asa Martin are some more Miami examples. We’ve done well with transfers, but not the guys who left because of competition elsewhere.

As always, the issue is EVALUATIONS. Whether it’s a transfer, a juco or a Hs kid or even a PWO. Evals include character, effort, grit, team-centric traits, effort, competitiveness, resiliency, hunger, lots of words, but basically is this kid tough and will he compete, and get off the mat when he gets knocked down, and stay at it until he’s gotten it right.

Franchise is right, some transfers who ‘quit’ go on to do great. Others not so great. The difference isn’t random. It’s not like Miami just has worse luck with some types of kids. We’ve had 5 straight staffs that are mediocre at best at evals and outright bad at roster management. (To go woth putrid at OC, S&C, and leadership.) So we shouldn’t avoid certain types of transfers on principle - we should have coaches who do their jobs and know what to screen for. Imo.

 

[bolivar]

Good thread.....i just hope we can turn the corner. It'd be nice to string together a few 10 win seasons and get back into national championship conversations. We've been down long enough.

 

[nycane]

Character matters. Our top three character guys were our first three picks this weekend. Jeff Thomas and Trevon Hill still haven’t found a team.

We were excited at the time, but in retrospect, the culture was poisoned when Manny did the following:

1) Convinced Jarren to stay;
2) Signed an OC with the idea that he would “fix” Jarren and the other QBs;
3) Begged Jeff to come back;
4) Signed Hill after he got kicked out of another program;
5) Signed Tate after he quit another program; and
5) Tweet bragged about all of the above.

We need to learn our lesson going forward. There are no short-cuts. The only way to build a culture is to be careful and consistent about who you let in the building. That is the secret at Clemson.

Wait. Some of this ins not accurate. Richt convinced Jarren to stay (i believe) and jeff wasnt begged to come back as much as many didnt want to see the kid in the street.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

…people think the inmates decide the environment of the asylum? No, I say the warden does. This is a leadership issue.

it’s the same in most things. If you have a manager complaining about his people, then it’s probably the manager. Too often good managers have turned around seemingly hopeless situations left in place by bad managers - with more or less the same people. Miami’s problem has been leadership.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Most QBs transfer because of competition. Only one can play. Tate left Ohio Taint because Day went out and got Fields to be his starter. Anyone else, who wanted to play, would have done the same thing.

George Brown has nothing to do with Tate. QB is just different. Heaps just sucked. Not sure he was a character deal.

Another good people. The eval question always starts with ‘can the kid play,’ because if not, can end discussion unless he looks really sharp holding a clipboard. It’s only IF he can play you gotta ask about the things that may nevertheless inhibit him from playing well, developing, dealing with adversity and fitting into a team framework.

Brown sucked.