Cam Harris...summed up in one play

[ithacane]

Harris is a good player who gets killed because of what he isn’t. He’s not an everydown, Canes-caliber back. He doesn’t have that balance or wiggle. But he has top-tier long speed, he can catch and he’s tough.

Don’t get me wrong, Chaney is the best back. But Harris still had the best numbers last year. He doesn’t suck.

When u say Harris isn’t the best back… why da *** is he starting?!? Chaney didn’t make it in until the game was over it seemed! How do we explain that the best back isn’t starting? Why is Jennings and McCloud on the field so much? Are they really the best we got or are we playing them for whatever reason Cam is playing? Wtf???

 

[@KingLew88]

I started screaming at the tv and laughing. This man ran into the DB. His vision is trash

 

[terdferguson]

Now compare it to the rest of the backs on our roster.

For reference, Cam averaged 5.9 as a freshman.

Just looking at ypc in a vaccum doesn't tell the whole story though. Here is an example....you have two backs who both arrive at the same 5 ypc:

RB 1: Great long speed, no vision, no instincts. Busts long runs against lesser competition when blocking opens things up, but does nothing against tough competition due to lack of vision and instincts. The long runs and big days against lesser comp balance out the bad days against good comp to yield 5 ypc.

RB 2: Does not possess tremendous long speed. But is a natural runner with good vision and tackle breaking ability. Does not have super long td runs against lesser comp due to lack of speed. But against good teams can grind out more yards on short runs due to vision and tackle breaking and instincts.

Which rb would you take? Which one is better for the team? It's clearly rb 2. We generally don't need rb 1's long runs to win those games against lesser competition. But in the tough games we need rb 2s ability to turn a 1 yard game into a 5 yard game so it's 3rd and 3 and not 3rd and 7. And that's the problem with cam right there. Against good comp he has so many runs that are either loss of yards or 0-3 yard gainers. It puts us behind the sticks and kills drives.

When evaluating rbs, long speed is so far down the list on most important attributes. While it's nice to have it's way less important than vision, instincts, acceleration, cutting at speed, wiggle, and power.

 

[terdferguson]

I started screaming at the tv and laughing. This man ran into the DB. His vision is trash

He literally extracted the least amount of yardage possible on that play outside of just tripping and falling down.

 

[Tee3000]

Late in the first half, Harris took a pitch to the right. One defender being blocked and nothing but green grass for as far as the eye can see......

View attachment 153616

This run ends up being a 4 yard gain. To ***** this up is almost unfathomable. It's hard to imagine even the most pedestrian rb only gaining 4 yards here. If you have any instincts, cutting ability, speed, power, vision.....any of that stuff, this is a big gainer. Imagine if Portis, McGahee, Duke, or even a guy like DeeJay Dallas had taken this carry and what the result what have been.

We should ALWAYS have a difference maker at the rb position. There are lot of rbs out there who can do damage either via speed or power or vision etc. And plenty of guys that want to come here. That we have a guy this ordinary as our starting rb is just mind boggling to me. Harris doesn't have any of the traits you want in a great rb. None of them.

I don’t think you have much of a point bc Cam Harris has always been that.

He’s 3 yards behind the LOS & got 7 total yards (4 net) & a first down.

thats all he’s going to give you against 11 future NFL players.

 

[Juancane]

this screencap tells me nothing. entirely within the realm of possibility that the DB gets past the WR's block in the next instant, slows up the RB, and gives enough time for the DL/LBs at the top of the screen to come and clean up. maybe cam screwed up this play and maybe he didn't but that one shot is meaningless.

No he absolutely screwed up the play cause i was screaming at the TV about how he picked the wrong **** side. It was obvious to anyone except a RB with zero vision.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Remember how teams played us after Cam destroyed UAB and Louisville? They took away the run. That says a lot about the threat of Cam's speed.

Chaney should be the main runner although @Cane4life18 is right about his pass blocking. Knighton is a pure projection at this point. I like him and he had a good camp, but nothing he has done on the field to this point suggests he should be ahead of Cam. Let these guys earn it on the field.

Good point, and my comment about Knighton probably should have been explained better. I don’t think he should be ahead of Cam right now. He’s done nothing to earn that and he’s already doing dumb **** to take himself off the field. Agree 100%, he’s gotta earn it. I probably should have said that his role is a projection and I think he will earn it because he’s more naturally gifted than Cam. When you don’t have a dominant OL, you need a back who can get more than what is blocked. Cam can’t do that. If Lashlee can scheme him into open space where he can just outrun people, he can and will pop. But anybody with equal athletes, he just can’t create on his own. There’s that old Gale Sayers quote (and I’m not saying we need Gale Sayers, just hear me out) where he said he didn’t even see the first guy up. He was always focused on the 2nd guy because he knew he was gonna make the first guy miss. It seems like the first guy always gets Cam down. Maybe it’s just recency bias, I don’t know. But I just don’t see any kind of a difference maker when I watch him play. I see a kid who gets what’s there and that’s about it.

 

[CBurrr93]

Ever heard of an outlier? His 5.1 ypc is due to long runs against ****** teams. He’s terrible on a down to down basis. Terrible

 

[JgDaCane]

Wasn’t thrilled when he announced he was coming back. Don Chaney is so much better & it’s so clear. Harris is a 9th year senior though so I’m sure they’ll trot him out again vs App State. I actually am starting to not blame recruits for not wanting to come here. Who the **** wants to sit behind these old players that suck?

 

[joglen15]

I know D-Money has mentioned that Cam has the speed to break a game or two open. Honestly, that's a low bar in college. Lead, good to elite backs are breaking more than half their games open.

Cam's problem is consistency. Louisville, Duke, and UAB last year yielded nice YPC for Cam. VaTech was average. However, he was subpar against teams he shouldn't have been.

He is not lead back material. He needs to be behind Knighton and Don, who should be a combined 80% split of the backfield touches. It shouldn't be a discussion. Wanna play Cam against the App States and Central Connecticuts of the world? Fine. But do so after guys ahead of him get more burn

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

Ever heard of an outlier? His 5.1 ypc is due to long runs against ****** teams. He’s terrible on a down to down basis. Terrible

This. The fact he's starting speaks more to Manny's recruiting prowess than anything else.

And to those attempting to argue he was "trying to get out of bounds", there was enough space and opportunity there to both fake/deke inside and then still leverage the blocker to helping him get out of bounds.

It's called the ability to make guys miss. Play Chaney and the young kids and let's start building for the future. Harris is just an average talent.

 

[skyman]

Ever heard of an outlier? His 5.1 ypc is due to long runs against ****** teams. He’s terrible on a down to down basis. Terrible

QFT

 

[streetja]

Stop going back and forth with them. It's a waste of time.

The real reason why Cam is starting is because Don can't pass block. He isn't physical enough in pass blocking and half-asses it. Go rewatch the Bama game, Harris took Chaney's lunch money on the play King got sacked by Harris.

Until Don improves that area of his game, he's a liability. Also, giving Don starter snaps makes our offense predictable because the chance of it being a run play is higher. If our coaches see it on film other teams will see it on film as well.

It’s glaring from Don. My question is how can a dude that big be so bad at blocking?

 

[Cane4life18]

It’s glaring from Don. My question is how can a dude that big be so bad at blocking?

It's not necessarily a matter of size but more of a mentality. Blocking is something that is always a challenge for most RBs but the lack of effort from Don is most disappointing. He doesn't embrace contact unless it includes him carrying the football. That has to change.

 

[streetja]

It's not necessarily a matter of size but more of a mentality. Blocking is something that is always a challenge for most RBs but the lack of effort from Don is most disappointing. He doesn't embrace contact unless it includes him carrying the football. That has to change.

We gotta make a dog out of him

 

[Cane4life18]

We gotta make a dog out of him

Definitely. His potential is through the roof.

 

[DMoney]

Just looking at ypc in a vaccum doesn't tell the whole story though. Here is an example....you have two backs who both arrive at the same 5 ypc:

RB 1: Great long speed, no vision, no instincts. Busts long runs against lesser competition when blocking opens things up, but does nothing against tough competition due to lack of vision and instincts. The long runs and big days against lesser comp balance out the bad days against good comp to yield 5 ypc.

RB 2: Does not possess tremendous long speed. But is a natural runner with good vision and tackle breaking ability. Does not have super long td runs against lesser comp due to lack of speed. But against good teams can grind out more yards on short runs due to vision and tackle breaking and instincts.

Which rb would you take? Which one is better for the team? It's clearly rb 2. We generally don't need rb 1's long runs to win those games against lesser competition. But in the tough games we need rb 2s ability to turn a 1 yard game into a 5 yard game so it's 3rd and 3 and not 3rd and 7. And that's the problem with cam right there. Against good comp he has so many runs that are either loss of yards or 0-3 yard gainers. It puts us behind the sticks and kills drives.

When evaluating rbs, long speed is so far down the list on most important attributes. While it's nice to have it's way less important than vision, instincts, acceleration, cutting at speed, wiggle, and power.

This reminds me of what people used to say about Barry Sanders and, to use a Cane comparison, Lamar Miller. "Take away the 70-yard run and his numbers suck." Those runs count too, and they keep defensive coordinators up at night. Since someone will misquote this, Cam is nowhere even remotely close to Sanders and he's not Miller. But it's the same concept.

Remember, teams last year gameplanned to stop the run. That should tell you where they thought the strength of our team was. And the most productive running back was Cam. Nobody ran well against the good teams because they beat us up front.

 

[Dwinstitles]

You are correct, but unfortunately so is the OP. Play is at 107:20.




In defense of Cam I believe he was trying to get out of bounds, though I can’t for the life of me understand why. A first down stops the clock. (Also, this entire series was glacially slow and made me want to scream).

View attachment 153617

Jobe does get off his block, however Cam sees it in plenty of time and still gets taken out with a weak dive at his ankles.

View attachment 153618

I’ve thought about this play a lot actually, because I basically gave up on Cam ever being more than a back who occasionally uses his speed to break away. Several of us had this discussion prior to the game: he does not need to be anywhere near this big. He runs top heavy and goes down extremely easily, especially in situations like this where he simply needs to sidestep a defender who is out of position. Ive watched the play about a half a dozen times and I genuinely don’t think Cam could physically stop or slow down enough to make Jobe miss. I don’t know if it’s because he’s too tight, he just falls over, or if he simply didn’t anticipate the tackle.

This was the exact play that ended my last hope for Cam as a quality back. He runs so soft and makes himself easy to tackle. His lack of anticipation and ability to adjust to defenders is more than just a vision problem, imo, and while his top end speed is great, he doesn’t have any real burst getting up to speed, so he rarely gets behind or surprises defenders.

Look at the closing speed pursuit weakside though. Jobe knows force him back that way cause he has help and talent that can close the distance. Christian Harris easily the best linebacker in the country.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Why wasn't Chaney in is beyond me.....respect to experienced seniors my *** put the best players in.

 

[terdferguson]

This reminds me of what people used to say about Barry Sanders and, to use a Cane comparison, Lamar Miller. "Take away the 70-yard run and his numbers suck." Those runs count too, and they keep defensive coordinators up at night. Since someone will misquote this, Cam is nowhere even remotely close to Sanders and he's not Miller. But it's the same concept.

Remember, teams last year gameplanned to stop the run. That should tell you where they thought the strength of our team was. And the most productive running back was Cam. Nobody ran well against the good teams because they beat us up front.

Cam is so far removed from the statosphere of guys like Miller and Sanders that I don't think that concept applies to him at all. In order for that concept to have validity you need to have a guy where people feel like hey this guy is dangerous and can take it to the house on any given play. That was Miller. Nobody feels that way about Cam. Perhaps you disagree and if so I'll just say let's agree to disagree on this point. You did say earlier in this thread that he's not a miami caliber back and that really sums it up. We really shouldn't be stuck with a guy with his limitations as our starting rb.