Blaming the good players

[Andrew]

I've never said Kaaya was bad but he isn't the 1st round QB half the board says he is. Kaaya at this point is very average. His OL isn't perfect but no ones is. I hope with a new OC Kaaya tak s the next step. I know he is working hard and a good kid but the data doesn't suggest he is great or elite.

he may be a good pro for the very fact he is tall and has a reasonable IQ. but let's no kid ourselves here 1 to 2 guys per year, if that, become serviceable pro quarterbacks. it isn't the easiest transition.

Ken Dorsey had the same and was a winner. Kaaya has to develop a lot more to make it on a NFL roster.

 

[Sabetta]

It's incredibly stupid to be calling out Kaaya. No one expected him to be Montana or some dual threat phenom. The guy was ACC FOY without the benefit of a Spring and has been very good this year with a terrible OLine and a below average run game. He's got a pack of dummies coaching him and the worst play caller since Nix calling plays. I'm not a huge fan of how emotionless he is but I really think that's the Goldenization of the whole team not just about Kaaya.

I'll ask the haters this, what would Dorsey be doing with this OC and OL?

 

[HighSeas]

It's always interesting when experts in the draft community are much higher on a player than the actual fans of his team (who, not incidentally, have a very casual understanding of the game and a tendency toward bipolar overreactions and histrionic behavior).

Then there are exceptions that represent the opposite of that trend like Denzel Perryman or Ereck Flowers who were overrated by fans and the NFL while the draft community correctly identified their flaws.

 

[Zubair ILyas]

I've never said Kaaya was bad but he isn't the 1st round QB half the board says he is. Kaaya at this point is very average. His OL isn't perfect but no ones is. I hope with a new OC Kaaya tak s the next step. I know he is working hard and a good kid but the data doesn't suggest he is great or elite.

he may be a good pro for the very fact he is tall and has a reasonable IQ. but let's no kid ourselves here 1 to 2 guys per year, if that, become serviceable pro quarterbacks. it isn't the easiest transition.

Ken Dorsey had the same and was a winner. Kaaya has to develop a lot more to make it on a NFL roster.

Christian Ponder made it on an NFL roster

 

[brock]

I've never said Kaaya was bad but he isn't the 1st round QB half the board says he is. Kaaya at this point is very average. His OL isn't perfect but no ones is. I hope with a new OC Kaaya tak s the next step. I know he is working hard and a good kid but the data doesn't suggest he is great or elite.

he may be a good pro for the very fact he is tall and has a reasonable IQ. but let's no kid ourselves here 1 to 2 guys per year, if that, become serviceable pro quarterbacks. it isn't the easiest transition.

Ken Dorsey had the same and was a winner. Kaaya has to develop a lot more to make it on a NFL roster.

Christian Ponder made it on an NFL roster

Ej Manuel, Brandon weeden, josh freeman and more duds... Tell me more why kaaya can't be a 1st round pick...

 

[Andrew]

It's always interesting when experts in the draft community are much higher on a player than the actual fans of his team (who, not incidentally, have a very casual understanding of the game and a tendency toward bipolar overreactions and histrionic behavior).

Then there are exceptions that represent the opposite of that trend like Denzel Perryman or Ereck Flowers who were overrated by fans and the NFL while the draft community correctly identified their flaws.

All of that talk was based off his freshman season and the thought he would progress over the next 4 years. No one is saying Kaaya can play in the NFL right now.

I find it odd our fans think it is ok to **** on our young OL which is tied for 33rd in the country in sacks allowed but think it's off limits to question whether our fan base overrated a QB who is good but nothing more.

 

[LuCane]

It's always interesting when experts in the draft community are much higher on a player than the actual fans of his team (who, not incidentally, have a very casual understanding of the game and a tendency toward bipolar overreactions and histrionic behavior).

Then there are exceptions that represent the opposite of that trend like Denzel Perryman or Ereck Flowers who were overrated by fans and the NFL while the draft community correctly identified their flaws.

The draft community correctly identified Erek Flowers' flaws? He was drafted 9th overall and won't turn 22 till right around the next NFL draft. It's not to say he doesn't have flaws (I think he's more of a natural RT), but perhaps I'm missing what you're saying.

 

[gfer1988]

It's always interesting when experts in the draft community are much higher on a player than the actual fans of his team (who, not incidentally, have a very casual understanding of the game and a tendency toward bipolar overreactions and histrionic behavior).

Then there are exceptions that represent the opposite of that trend like Denzel Perryman or Ereck Flowers who were overrated by fans and the NFL while the draft community correctly identified their flaws.

perryman has been good when played and healthy and flowers has been pretty solid overall and that's while playing injured. totally agreed with the first half of what you said though

 

[Andrew]

I've never said Kaaya was bad but he isn't the 1st round QB half the board says he is. Kaaya at this point is very average. His OL isn't perfect but no ones is. I hope with a new OC Kaaya tak s the next step. I know he is working hard and a good kid but the data doesn't suggest he is great or elite.

he may be a good pro for the very fact he is tall and has a reasonable IQ. but let's no kid ourselves here 1 to 2 guys per year, if that, become serviceable pro quarterbacks. it isn't the easiest transition.

Ken Dorsey had the same and was a winner. Kaaya has to develop a lot more to make it on a NFL roster.

Christian Ponder made it on an NFL roster

Ej Manuel, Brandon weeden, josh freeman and more duds... Tell me more why kaaya can't be a 1st round pick...

Never said he couldn't be just his results have yet to put him in the category of those guys. I like Kaaya and hope he does end up in the first round, but at this point he is just a good QB and nothing more.

 

[HighSeas]

The draft community correctly identified Erek Flowers' flaws? He was drafted 9th overall and won't turn 22 till right around the next NFL draft. It's not to say he doesn't have flaws (I think he's more of a natural RT), but perhaps I'm missing what you're saying.

I'm saying he was overrated by fans & the NFL because of his size, strength and tenacity as a run blocker when he hasn't shown the fundamentals to be a reliable pass protector in a passing league. Those traits have carried over to the pros but how you feel about him long-term is determined by your philosophy on OL development - can sloppy technique, lack of balance, etc. be corrected or not? I tend to think no but it's not impossible. If Flowers corrects his technique issues he will be an elite OL but that's a huge leap of faith for a top 10 pick imo. Granted the OL class was bad overall in 2015 but the Giants took a desperate risk with Flowers. We'll see.

Anyways, every draft scout I've read or listened to views Kaaya as a top-3 QB prospect for the future drafts and a 1st round lock. But I'm sure the fans are capable of applying context to Kaaya's traits and performance within a poorly coached mess of an offense....(not really)

 

[252cane]

I've never said Kaaya was bad but he isn't the 1st round QB half the board says he is. Kaaya at this point is very average. His OL isn't perfect but no ones is. I hope with a new OC Kaaya tak s the next step. I know he is working hard and a good kid but the data doesn't suggest he is great or elite.

he may be a good pro for the very fact he is tall and has a reasonable IQ. but let's no kid ourselves here 1 to 2 guys per year, if that, become serviceable pro quarterbacks. it isn't the easiest transition.

Ken Dorsey had the same and was a winner. Kaaya has to develop a lot more to make it on a NFL roster.

But why did dorsey win? You think dorsey would have been a winner with this coaching staff and surrounding cast?

 

[TreOFive]

Dmoney I have recently disagreed with you on other things but this is spot on!

Akin to blaming a rape victim for being raped...stop blaming the players...look at the adults who are making millions/hundreds of thousands to "teach them".

 

[jackedaround]

The draft community correctly identified Erek Flowers' flaws? He was drafted 9th overall and won't turn 22 till right around the next NFL draft. It's not to say he doesn't have flaws (I think he's more of a natural RT), but perhaps I'm missing what you're saying.

I'm saying he was overrated by fans & the NFL because of his size, strength and tenacity as a run blocker when he hasn't shown the fundamentals to be a reliable pass protector in a passing league. Those traits have carried over to the pros but how you feel about him long-term is determined by your philosophy on OL development - can sloppy technique, lack of balance, etc. be corrected or not? I tend to think no but it's not impossible. If Flowers corrects his technique issues he will be an elite OL but that's a huge leap of faith for a top 10 pick imo. Granted the OL class was bad overall in 2015 but the Giants took a desperate risk with Flowers. We'll see.

Anyways, every draft scout I've read or listened to views Kaaya as a top-3 QB prospect for the future drafts and a 1st round lock. But I'm sure the fans are capable of applying context to Kaaya's traits and performance within a poorly coached mess of an offense....(not really)

i think the problem is this.

if you are a qb or a running back you touch the ball enough. the simple fan thinks they can control the game, which they can. the problem lies that in front of every great QB and RB is a great O-Line. *****ing about duke johnson is idiotic. however, even the least astute football fan realizes that kaaya doesnt exude leadership or fight.

nothing exemplifies this point more than the botch snap that he, for some reason, felt not compelled to dive on the ground for. that is the best depiction of who kaaya is.

 

[LuCane]

The draft community correctly identified Erek Flowers' flaws? He was drafted 9th overall and won't turn 22 till right around the next NFL draft. It's not to say he doesn't have flaws (I think he's more of a natural RT), but perhaps I'm missing what you're saying.

I'm saying he was overrated by fans & the NFL because of his size, strength and tenacity as a run blocker when he hasn't shown the fundamentals to be a reliable pass protector in a passing league. Those traits have carried over to the pros but how you feel about him long-term is determined by your philosophy on OL development - can sloppy technique, lack of balance, etc. be corrected or not? I tend to think no but it's not impossible. If Flowers corrects his technique issues he will be an elite OL but that's a huge leap of faith for a top 10 pick imo. Granted the OL class was bad overall in 2015 but the Giants took a desperate risk with Flowers. We'll see.

Anyways, every draft scout I've read or listened to views Kaaya as a top-3 QB prospect for the future drafts and a 1st round lock. But I'm sure the fans are capable of applying context to Kaaya's traits and performance within a poorly coached mess of an offense....(not really)

On the first part, I'll repeat that I consider Flowers a natural fit at RT and I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually is placed over there.

On the second part, I've compared Kaaya to something closer to an Andy Dalton level of prospect. I get what you're saying here.

 

[MiamiManiac]

Losing for a decade sucks.

In the midst of this pain, Miami fans have picked up a dumb habit. When things go wrong, we blame our good players for "not being as good as we hyped them to be." Then, when these same guys get to the NFL, they turn out to be even better than we ever hoped.

Calais Campbell- Low-motor, plays too high, slow, glorified cheerleader.
Greg Olsen- Soft, chokes in big games, average hands.
Travis Benjamin- Soft, can't run routes.
Allen Bailey- JAG, stiff.
Orlando Franklin- Dumb, belongs in the CFL.

Last year, Duke Johnson was the target. Now he's making TD catches on Thursday Night Football. This year, people are choosing to dump on Brad Kaaya.

Hopefully, the new coach turns this around fast. It would be nice to appreciate Kaaya while he's still in a Canes uniform.

i went to school with calais. nice guy but more committed to drinking and partying than football while in college. he benched 7 reps of 225 at the combine. now he got his act together when he went pro. big shock.

olsen was hated on initially because he came from Notre Dame and was a **** of a lot softer than K2 or shockey.

travis benjamin was similar to roscoe parish. most never hated on him but were frustrated that his speed didnt translate to being unguardable.

fwiw franklin was terrible at UM. he gave up more sacks and had more penalties than any of his the other linemen. constantly false starting or holding. oh and he sucked balls in the superbowl.

Dumb fan example 1

 

[Andrew]

The draft community correctly identified Erek Flowers' flaws? He was drafted 9th overall and won't turn 22 till right around the next NFL draft. It's not to say he doesn't have flaws (I think he's more of a natural RT), but perhaps I'm missing what you're saying.

I'm saying he was overrated by fans & the NFL because of his size, strength and tenacity as a run blocker when he hasn't shown the fundamentals to be a reliable pass protector in a passing league. Those traits have carried over to the pros but how you feel about him long-term is determined by your philosophy on OL development - can sloppy technique, lack of balance, etc. be corrected or not? I tend to think no but it's not impossible. If Flowers corrects his technique issues he will be an elite OL but that's a huge leap of faith for a top 10 pick imo. Granted the OL class was bad overall in 2015 but the Giants took a desperate risk with Flowers. We'll see.

Anyways, every draft scout I've read or listened to views Kaaya as a top-3 QB prospect for the future drafts and a 1st round lock. But I'm sure the fans are capable of applying context to Kaaya's traits and performance within a poorly coached mess of an offense....(not really)

All of that is based off of his freshman performance with the expectations of continued growth. No one has said he would be a 1st round pick if eligible after this season. The situation reminds me a lot of STEMO

 

[252cane]

The draft community correctly identified Erek Flowers' flaws? He was drafted 9th overall and won't turn 22 till right around the next NFL draft. It's not to say he doesn't have flaws (I think he's more of a natural RT), but perhaps I'm missing what you're saying.

I'm saying he was overrated by fans & the NFL because of his size, strength and tenacity as a run blocker when he hasn't shown the fundamentals to be a reliable pass protector in a passing league. Those traits have carried over to the pros but how you feel about him long-term is determined by your philosophy on OL development - can sloppy technique, lack of balance, etc. be corrected or not? I tend to think no but it's not impossible. If Flowers corrects his technique issues he will be an elite OL but that's a huge leap of faith for a top 10 pick imo. Granted the OL class was bad overall in 2015 but the Giants took a desperate risk with Flowers. We'll see.

Anyways, every draft scout I've read or listened to views Kaaya as a top-3 QB prospect for the future drafts and a 1st round lock. But I'm sure the fans are capable of applying context to Kaaya's traits and performance within a poorly coached mess of an offense....(not really)

On the first part, I'll repeat that I consider Flowers a natural fit at RT and I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually is placed over there.

On the second part, I've compared Kaaya to something closer to an Andy Dalton level of prospect. I get what you're saying here.

And dalton was a 2nd round pick and i think kaaya has better arm talent.

 

[Andrew]

I've never said Kaaya was bad but he isn't the 1st round QB half the board says he is. Kaaya at this point is very average. His OL isn't perfect but no ones is. I hope with a new OC Kaaya tak s the next step. I know he is working hard and a good kid but the data doesn't suggest he is great or elite.

he may be a good pro for the very fact he is tall and has a reasonable IQ. but let's no kid ourselves here 1 to 2 guys per year, if that, become serviceable pro quarterbacks. it isn't the easiest transition.

Ken Dorsey had the same and was a winner. Kaaya has to develop a lot more to make it on a NFL roster.

But why did dorsey win? You think dorsey would have been a winner with this coaching staff and surrounding cast?

It doesn't matter. Sure Dorsey had better coaches, that is part of it. Dorsey was a lot better his sophomore year and ended up in the 7th round. Kaaya has some work to do and hopefully the next OC can help him more than Coley.

 

[TallyCane]

Some games he just doesn't look comfortable cause of the O-line. He throws off his back foot a lot, he doesn't step into his throws. That's probably cause of his O-line and lack of running game.

 

[252cane]

The draft community correctly identified Erek Flowers' flaws? He was drafted 9th overall and won't turn 22 till right around the next NFL draft. It's not to say he doesn't have flaws (I think he's more of a natural RT), but perhaps I'm missing what you're saying.

I'm saying he was overrated by fans & the NFL because of his size, strength and tenacity as a run blocker when he hasn't shown the fundamentals to be a reliable pass protector in a passing league. Those traits have carried over to the pros but how you feel about him long-term is determined by your philosophy on OL development - can sloppy technique, lack of balance, etc. be corrected or not? I tend to think no but it's not impossible. If Flowers corrects his technique issues he will be an elite OL but that's a huge leap of faith for a top 10 pick imo. Granted the OL class was bad overall in 2015 but the Giants took a desperate risk with Flowers. We'll see.

Anyways, every draft scout I've read or listened to views Kaaya as a top-3 QB prospect for the future drafts and a 1st round lock. But I'm sure the fans are capable of applying context to Kaaya's traits and performance within a poorly coached mess of an offense....(not really)

All of that is based off of his freshman performance with the expectations of continued growth. No one has said he would be a 1st round pick if eligible after this season. The situation reminds me a lot of STEMO

You think kaaya has regressed? The only thing that won't be better than last year is the number of td passes. And tood mcshay said right before the clemson game he belives kaaya will be a future 1st round pick.