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Young, Owens, Mccray

WildcatDefense said:
Some of you probably had boners for Allen Bailey and Jeff Luc when they were coming out of high school too.

Do you know how big of a freak someone would have to be if he was 240+ pounds and could still move well at the age of 18?

How often do we see that in college football?
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Give me 3 sean spences I get this D back to a top 10 in two years
 
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I think all three of these kids will contribute. Too bad we don't have EJ and Gionni still. Competition would be fierce. Still, I think this years class will give us something to build around. Those three and Gayot and Hester look like head hunters.
 
theibisrules said:
252cane said:
LuCane said:
I wish weight weren't such a point of emphasis and badge of honor for our defenders.
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Fsu doing it too. They going after lbs who are 6'2-6'3 230+ so they can be at 245 without loosing speed.
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DJ Williams played at 245 and he didn't have a problem
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Everyone is going after and would ideally have LBs who are that size. Problem is they are few and far between. If you base a defense and recruiting strategy on something that isn't in high supply, you are going to be in a dangerous spot. Citing a superstar recruit who played here over a decade ago isn't strengthening your point.
 
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Exactly. ^^ besides, DJW isn't exactly your normal athlete; he's more like the exception.
 
People get too caught up in that size **** sometimes.

Somewhere right now in Division 1AA football there's a group of Linebackers who are all 240. You guys want them too?

What separates legit D1 Linebackers from other college Linebackers isn't weight, it's explosiveness and speed.

I'll take a 6'1" 225 explosive LB over a 6'3" 250 guy all day.

Where's Jeff Luc these days?
 
DJWilliams55 said:
theibisrules said:
252cane said:
LuCane said:
I wish weight weren't such a point of emphasis and badge of honor for our defenders.
Click to expand...

Fsu doing it too. They going after lbs who are 6'2-6'3 230+ so they can be at 245 without loosing speed.
Click to expand...

DJ Williams played at 245 and he didn't have a problem
Click to expand...

LB who are 6'1 245 and can run 4.5 flat are extremely rare to find. DJ was a very unique athlete
Click to expand...

And he still wasn't better than Vilma... His production wasn't even close to Morgan... He was a great athlete but it took him 3 years to make some noise...
 
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lauderdaleballer said:
DJWilliams55 said:
theibisrules said:
252cane said:
LuCane said:
I wish weight weren't such a point of emphasis and badge of honor for our defenders.
Click to expand...

Fsu doing it too. They going after lbs who are 6'2-6'3 230+ so they can be at 245 without loosing speed.
Click to expand...

DJ Williams played at 245 and he didn't have a problem
Click to expand...

LB who are 6'1 245 and can run 4.5 flat are extremely rare to find. DJ was a very unique athlete
Click to expand...

And he still wasn't better than Vilma... His production wasn't even close to Morgan... He was a great athlete but it took him 3 years to make some noise...
Click to expand...

Actually he led the team in TFL in his Jr year. And the WLB in a 4-3 Over will never have as many tackles as the MLB.
 
bshaw28 said:
I love the fact we finally have LB's that are coming in at actual Linebacker size as Freshman.

Having guys who are LB/Safety hybrids & LB's coming in at 205/210 that we have to pump up for a year or two before they can play has been hurting us.
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Ah, you are aware that this was JJ's formula...The philosophy being that you can beef guys up but you can't teach speed.
 
DJWilliams55 said:
lauderdaleballer said:
DJWilliams55 said:
theibisrules said:
252cane said:
Fsu doing it too. They going after lbs who are 6'2-6'3 230+ so they can be at 245 without loosing speed.
Click to expand...

DJ Williams played at 245 and he didn't have a problem
Click to expand...

LB who are 6'1 245 and can run 4.5 flat are extremely rare to find. DJ was a very unique athlete
Click to expand...

And he still wasn't better than Vilma... His production wasn't even close to Morgan... He was a great athlete but it took him 3 years to make some noise...
Click to expand...

Actually he led the team in TFL in his Jr year. And the WLB in a 4-3 Over will never have as many tackles as the MLB.
Click to expand...


Like I said it took him 3 yrs to come into his own but he still wasn't better than the aforementioned players...
 
Much of this has to do with instincts more than it has to do with size or speed.

Quiet as it's kept, Sean Spence wasn't a speed demon if you take his size into account. Sean ran a 4.7 at 230, while Olivier Vernon ran slightly slower at 260. Sean was lights out because of his instincts, not his physical profile. It's about having linebacker instincts and guys like Jermaine Grace and Juwon Young have that IN SPADES. It's about being able to diagnose a run alignment, read you keys, and choose the quickest route to get to the right hole, while also either avoiding or shedding blocks. Sean did a great job of that. Honestly, how much does running 4.5 help you when you are playing 5 feet from the line of scrimmage? It's about explosion and diagnosing a play quickly.

These arguments over size and speed are fruitless. I do know one thing, I'll take a big and slow guy, before I take a small and slow guy, because guys who have the instincts of a Sean Spence are few and far between and even they will be compromised some when going up against elite competition, because of their physical limitations. Guys like Cornelius and Armbrister and Gaines aren't BCS caliber linebackers. Hopefully guys like Fig, Owens, and Young become the norm.
 
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jerzeycane said:
Much of this has to do with instincts more than it has to do with size or speed.

Quiet as it's kept, Sean Spence wasn't a speed demon if you take his size into account. Sean ran a 4.7 at 230, while Olivier Vernon ran slightly slower at 260. Sean was lights out because of his instincts, not his physical profile. It's about having linebacker instincts and guys like Jermaine Grace and Juwon Young have that IN SPADES. It's about being able to diagnose a run alignment, read you keys, and choose the quickest route to get to the right hole, while also either avoiding or shedding blocks. Sean did a great job of that. Honestly, how much does running 4.5 help you when you are playing 5 feet from the line of scrimmage? It's about explosion and diagnosing a play quickly.

These arguments over size and speed are fruitless. I do know one thing, I'll take a big and slow guy, before I take a small and slow guy, because guys who have the instincts of a Sean Spence are few and far between and even they will be compromised some when going up against elite competition, because of their physical limitations. Guys like Cornelius and Armbrister and Gaines aren't BCS caliber linebackers. Hopefully guys like Fig, Owens, and Young become the norm.
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I have HIGH hopes for Grace this year!! His tape always reminded me of Spence's.
 
Grace is probably the person on the defense most harmed by the scheme. He is by far the worst fit for the 3-4. That's not the type of kid you ask to take on the guards every play. That's an awful fit for his skill set.
 
Another problem... (and this is the fault of local high school coaches)

Most of the kids down here aren't being taught how to engage blockers at the point of attack. How to attack blockers, lock-out their arms, create separation and disengage.

Remember D'Onofrio yelling at Futch about "running around the block"?

I imagine a kid like Grace would have problems with that once he gets to college. It's foreign to him. Same applies to the local D-linemen.
 
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theibisrules said:
I guess Bama is just LUCKY to find these guys YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR....hmmmm ok
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One of these days you'll realize that just because Alabama can do something doesn't mean Miami can do something.

Is Bama finding these LB's in South Florida? No, cause they don't exist down here.

Who's the last South Florida Linebacker you seen in the range of 6'1"+ 240+?
 
Terry McCray showed a lot of raw growth and improvement from 2012 to 2013. After watching his latest highlight tape I saw the potential the coaching staff sees in him and feel much better about this take.

God I'm stoked for Canes Football. Can't wait til April 12th and Sept 1st to get here!
 
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