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So does this mean we could move on from Steele? If you're going to spend money get someone who is bulletproof like Leonard
 
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BoxingRobes said:
Are we trying to beat UNC and Florida State or are we trying to beat Clemson or are we trying to beat Georgia?

The shift in mindset is fine, but the reality is, the closer you get to Lashlee's offense, the farther away you get from beating the latter, while getting closer to the former.

Getting away from Gattis talk for a second...even in a perfect world where the kind of offense Mario wants to run was called and developed by a real pro...it still requires the Jimmy n Joes. You still need a big offensive line, you still need to create explosive plays downfield. Our current incarnation of 'Canes football has about as bad of an OL as you'll ever see (especially one that has played so much together) that is also pretty small. We also have no one on the roster that is really explosive without having a major wart to their game (ex: Knighton and his ability to hold on to the football).

If we are going to build a foundation for future success, it can't be short sighted to just go from the bottom of the middle class of the ACC to the upper middle class of the ACC (being able to beat UNC and Florida State)...why are we investing hundreds of millions into the program with that as the goal.

The type of offense Miami wants to run under Cristobal and the goal they have for the player types they are recruiting are sound and if all goes as planned can get us to be a top of the ACC. Abruptly shifting to something closer to Lashlee's offense might help in the short term (I do not believe it would have helped this year...I still fail to see who was replacing Rambo and to a lesser extent Harley...and in this fantasy world we also don't have an injured QB and an offensive line about to start walk-ons)...but intermediate and long term, it gives us a ceiling (as we've seen...we were capped at 7, 8 wins with that offense).

If you want to sell me on that as a stopgap...sure. But the players you're recruiting for this shock therapy and the players you're recruiting to build a foundation for future success to beat the Clemson's and Georgia's of the world are not a perfect circle if we are making this into a venn diagram.
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i look forward to your posts. And, I just can’t agree with you here. There is no **** reason we need to choose one or the other. I don’t even agree with the ‘Shock Therapy’ suggestion.

I merely think we should pick a creative OC who can actually (more than buzzwords to the media) architect a player-centric scheme Mario will allow. And, yes, I believe that requires a scheme rooted on space. The issue isn’t availability.

To me, it seems like the issue is alignment with Mario (so far), and that’s hopefully a problem he can admit (at least to himself) and resolve (immediately). You can still recruit and develop an elite OL *while* adjusting to what we have now. This black or white approach - apparently embraced by Mario this season - is not worth the money being paid for it.
 
supersaiyanshel said:
Plenty of first time play-callers have had success.
From Joe Brady to Liam Coen to our own Ken Dorsey or Ben Johnson in the NFL.
That's not grounds for disqualification imo. It's desired, sure, but if a candidate has the credentials and acumen... it can work.
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Yes but we cannot afford another mistake this offseason or our program basically folds. I’d rather us to hire a less risky candidate. When the program is on LSU’s level, then we can take risks on coaches like Joe Brady or Hartline.
 
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BS85 said:
Why does everyone, including Miami's coaches apparently (somehow), think that Lashlee's spread is representative of all spread offenses? I mean I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Not all spreads are super up tempo with no running game or running creativity like Lashlee's was. You can get a modern, BALANCED, spread which can control the clock.

Like why the **** is this so hard to understand?
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Going Crazy Will Ferrell GIF
 
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DMoney said:
Do what you’re paid to do. Mario did not get $8 million a year for his gameday chops or Xs and Os acumen. He needs to be the best coach in the country for the next three weeks. We are deeply in the mix for stars such as Samson Okunlola and Derek Williams, and quietly battling for more elite guys. I’m worried that Mario’s teams will always play behind their talent. If that’s the case, he needs to recruit to the moon to perform with the stars.

This might be the most important offseason in Miami history. Mario lost most of his goodwill with five straight home losses. Time to make some meaningful adjustments and build this thing to last.
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Its a vicious cycle. Mario's recruiting expertise depends on both his relentless, winning style in the recruitment game AND his team winning on the field. The less we do of the latter, the more MCs recruiting reputation/effectiveness suffers in the battle for top recruits.
 
BoxingRobes said:
Are we trying to beat UNC and Florida State or are we trying to beat Clemson or are we trying to beat Georgia?

The shift in mindset is fine, but the reality is, the closer you get to Lashlee's offense, the farther away you get from beating the latter, while getting closer to the former.

Getting away from Gattis talk for a second...even in a perfect world where the kind of offense Mario wants to run was called and developed by a real pro...it still requires the Jimmy n Joes. You still need a big offensive line, you still need to create explosive plays downfield. Our current incarnation of 'Canes football has about as bad of an OL as you'll ever see (especially one that has played so much together) that is also pretty small. We also have no one on the roster that is really explosive without having a major wart to their game (ex: Knighton and his ability to hold on to the football).

If we are going to build a foundation for future success, it can't be short sighted to just go from the bottom of the middle class of the ACC to the upper middle class of the ACC (being able to beat UNC and Florida State)...why are we investing hundreds of millions into the program with that as the goal.

The type of offense Miami wants to run under Cristobal and the goal they have for the player types they are recruiting are sound and if all goes as planned can get us to be a top of the ACC. Abruptly shifting to something closer to Lashlee's offense might help in the short term (I do not believe it would have helped this year...I still fail to see who was replacing Rambo and to a lesser extent Harley...and in this fantasy world we also don't have an injured QB and an offensive line about to start walk-ons)...but intermediate and long term, it gives us a ceiling (as we've seen...we were capped at 7, 8 wins with that offense).

If you want to sell me on that as a stopgap...sure. But the players you're recruiting for this shock therapy and the players you're recruiting to build a foundation for future success to beat the Clemson's and Georgia's of the world are not a perfect circle if we are making this into a venn diagram.
Click to expand...

You can still produce a hard nosed, productive running game with a smaller O-Line and good RBs, but unfortunately, our top RB & RB recruit went down. But I get what you're saying, we need a talent infusion...you can lose with talent, that's coaching, but it's extremely hard to win without it.
 
Yo Money, I’m surprised no one has asked but is Gattis out recruiting? That’s usually a tell tale sign. I can’t imagine the WR coach is absent in the process of guys like Innis, or ****ey, so if Gattis isn’t out there that’s telling.
 
LuCane said:
i look forward to your posts. And, I just can’t agree with you here. There is no **** reason we need to choose one or the other. I don’t even agree with the ‘Shock Therapy’ suggestion.

I merely think we should pick a creative OC who can actually (more than buzzwords to the media) architect a player-centric scheme Mario will allow. And, yes, I believe that requires a scheme rooted on space. The issue isn’t availability.

To me, it seems like the issue is alignment with Mario (so far), and that’s hopefully a problem he can admit (at least to himself) and resolve (immediately). You can still recruit and develop an elite OL *while* adjusting to what we have now. This black or white approach - apparently embraced by Mario this season - is not worth the money being paid for it.
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There is.

It is a product of the conference we play in and who our head coach/OL Coach is. Similar to an NFL Team building their roster in many respects based on who is in their division or what you as a coach want to do. If you're in the AFC West and have to play Mahomes, Herbert, Carr, Wilson (who sucks now, but I digress) 2x every year, you're going to go into the NFL Draft focused on - often - on drafting DBs and pass rushers because that is who you are playing against. If you're a coach that uses a TE a lot and you just took a new job and they currently do not have an at-standard TE, you're going to draft Kyle Pitts in the Top 5. The choices you make are not from a sterile environment.

Its easy to say - in theory - we should have an offense that should look like X, Y, and Z because we're having holistic discussions...but the reality is, we need an offense that can get us over the top and beat Clemson (the alpha of the conference) and the type of offense you see UNC or FSU running ain't gonna do it anytime soon. We're not in the Big XII or Pac12 where its easy to say GIVE ME SONNY DYKES' offense. We did that, and it still got us to 7 wins in a full season of ACC play. Dino Babers was nearly run out of town in Syracuse for running the Art Briles offense. Florida State and UNC have ceilings with their AAC offense and as much as I like Phil Longo, UNC has a ceiling, too (as there was at Ole Miss).

And, the reality is, that I can not imagine Mario going with anyone other than his right hand, Alex Mirabal as the OL Coach, so if this creative, player-centric offense deviates from the line splits and techniques Mirabal is going to be teaching...we're right back here with an offense with no synergy. You know Mario is going to build a massive wall of talented offensive linemen...that is what he does and that will be the foundation of the offense...with that said, now you look for an offense that compliments that mindset (Georgia spreads you out...Alabama spreads you out...so does Michigan...and they all have a similar mindset to what Mario wants to do...so these offenses exist)...not the other way around, IMO.
 
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LuCane said:
i look forward to your posts. And, I just can’t agree with you here. There is no **** reason we need to choose one or the other. I don’t even agree with the ‘Shock Therapy’ suggestion.

I merely think we should pick a creative OC who can actually (more than buzzwords to the media) architect a player-centric scheme Mario will allow. And, yes, I believe that requires a scheme rooted on space. The issue isn’t availability.

To me, it seems like the issue is alignment with Mario (so far), and that’s hopefully a problem he can admit (at least to himself) and resolve (immediately). You can still recruit and develop an elite OL *while* adjusting to what we have now. This black or white approach - apparently embraced by Mario this season - is not worth the money being paid for it.
Click to expand...

The Oklahoma blueprint to me has always been about speed, space, and good OL. Under Riley they had top OL. Even before him. Why can’t we mimic that? Man if only Riley had a younger brother who was an up and coming star.
 
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Mr. Dynasty1 said:
That and his style of play offensively keeps teams in the game
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I keep thinking that Mario learned from Saban, but not enough. If you go back a few years Saban had big, physical DBs and a smash mouth offense built on the run. Then he started to get beat by mobile QBs who could use the whole field, particularly Ole Miss and Auburn. He was smart enough to realize that if they were beating him, he could beat others with the same concepts. So he hired Kiffin to change the offense and recruited much more athletic DBs. What makes Saban great is that he isn't afraid to evolve.

I am afraid we just got Saban circa 2012.

No, I'm not part of the Lane Train. Just noting how that played out.
 
DMoney said:
I’m worried that Mario’s teams will always play behind their talent...
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Honest question- Is this the Saban model?

I only ask because the caricatures of Saban always involve a comparison/connection to Belichick and that obviously goes down an x's and o's route.

Did Mario develop at all on this front while at Baga or was the growth pretty much limited to becoming a recruiting monster since he was a positions coach and Sabag wanted him there for a specific reason?

Does Sabag even actually develop anyone scheme-wise? Or is he just a reputation cleanser for guys that need the washing and/or a place to learn the non on-field aspects of building a program?
 
BoxingRobes said:
There is.

It is a product of the conference we play in and who our head coach/OL Coach is. Similar to an NFL Team building their roster in many respects based on who is in their division or what you as a coach want to do. If you're in the AFC West and have to play Mahomes, Herbert, Carr, Wilson (who sucks now, but I digress) 2x every year, you're going to go into the NFL Draft focused on - often - on drafting DBs and pass rushers because that is who you are playing against. If you're a coach that uses a TE a lot and you just took a new job and they currently do not have an at-standard TE, you're going to draft Kyle Pitts in the Top 5. The choices you make are not from a sterile environment.

Its easy to say - in theory - we should have an offense that should look like X, Y, and Z because we're having holistic discussions...but the reality is, we need an offense that can get us over the top and beat Clemson (the alpha of the conference) and the type of offense you see UNC or FSU running ain't gonna do it anytime soon.

And, the reality is, that I can not imagine Mario going with anyone other than his right hand, Alex Mirabal as the OL Coach, so if this creative, player-centric offense deviates from the line splits and techniques Mirabal is going to be teaching...we're right back here with an offense with no synergy. You know Mario is going to build a massive wall of talented offensive linemen...that is what he does and that will be the foundation of the offense...with that said, now you look for an offense that compliments that mindset (Georgia spreads you out...Alabama spreads you out...so does Michigan...ad they all have a similar mindset to what Mario wants to do...so these offenses exist)...not the other way around, IMO.
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I can't ride with you on this one, BR.

The first paragraph is all true and yet irrelevant to my response to your post.

The second paragraph misrepresents my point by positioning it as Mario being "forced" to choose between beating Clemson and beating UNC/FSU. Given your analogy to the NFL, you should consider that our conference eliminates divisions next season. We need an offensive coordinator who isn't so rigid that, after adjusting to what we currently have in our talent pool, is incapable of evolving to what we presumably grow into: a team with a strong OL. We should not have to wait it out till our top OL recruits align in terms of physical ability and maturity.

The third paragraph is the insanity I've argued against since the Gattis hire, and perhaps that's exactly the rationale Mario used for this year's [objective] failure of a coaching staff. You're suggesting we revolve our OC decision on what Coach Mirabal and Mario prefer for their OL splits? For real? Mind you, I'm a Mirabal supporter and don't want to pigeonhole him as someone who cannot adjust to a new boss. This is exactly why there is an old post where people say this year's staff was the "best ever," and I politely pointed them to the 1988 staff. Staff cohesion matters - not just accolades collected on paper. You want the tail to wag dog? Is that what Mario wants? I guess it seems like it so far.
 
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