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What the NFL Draft will tell us about Cristobal and Miami's evaluations

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For all the criticism Mario got for trying to build a more physical team with Justin Herbert...it seems the Chargers will do just that. Chargers first free agency moves under Jim Harbaugh is a big back and blocking TE and all signs point to them taking an OT w their R1 pick.

Hmm.
 
SWFLHurricane said:
@Rellyrell ....one of the Greatest Posters ever.....View attachment 284385
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I’ve had the pleasure to meet Mr George Iceman Gervin on multiple occasions. One of the nicest ppl I’ve ever met. I told him I want to give him the flowers he deserved. Bro is hardly ever mentioned among greatest SF to ever play the game.
 
Rellyrell said:
I’ve had the pleasure to meet Mr George Iceman Gervin on multiple occasions. One of the nicest ppl I’ve ever met. I told him I want to give him the flowers he deserved. Bro is hardly ever mentioned among greatest SF to ever play the game.
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That finger roll was insanely Great....even better than Connie Hawkins...
 
Rellyrell said:
I fcks w/ u too; I love sports. Honestly, I stay on CIS so much b/c these talking heads on nat’l TV have become click bait for ratings. There’s no more genuine coverage, it’s all sensationalism. Here, I get to talk about my favorite team, in general, & we get to fck up threads & talk sports. Lol.

I legit hate Stephen A, Nick Wright, Shannon Sharpe, & Skip Bayless. Zero context for points they make on either side, just scream, and very little variety of subjects.
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I feel u! Alot of the sports shows on TV is so watered down no substance just repeat what the next man said. Very lazy. If they went in depth and actually researched they would have alot to talk about there's so much a fan wants to know an loves to hear but they talk about the same **** everyday! The big names circle jerk the same lazy info. And CIS is the greatest thing I've ever found on the net lol straight up! Get all the the first hand info on my Canes! Think this my 10 year anniversary on here. I get on here at least 20 times a day read everything to do with football! Can't wait till we get this **** back straight
 
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Felonious Monk said:
I'd love to weigh in on this topic, but unfortunately, I have a really bad cramp right now that's taking all of my attention.
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I get that. I was going to moderate this thread full of personal insults and derails, but I'm on a load management regimen.

Gotta save something for Lou Cristobal starting the spring game at LG, the next catastrophic aggravation of an existing injury, and a May portal that closes without an alpha WR or CB.
 
Rellyrell said:
Bro, pls don’t provide a contextless TikTok. TikTok in general provide hella false, better yet, misleading info. Lol. I can literally do a compilation of the 2016 NBA Finals Game 7 4th quarter of Steph bricking 3 point shot after 3 point shot in the clutch & LBJ smoking lay ups.
4th Qtr in NBA Finals Game 7 2016:
Cavs: 18 points on 31% shooting. GSW: 13 points on 26% shooting.

Seeeeee; this proves today’s generation just chuck up shots. lol

****, I can do a funny comp of LBJ flopping, getting turned around on Def where Kuzma had to push him in the right direction. Lol. Seeeeee, this proves today’s NBA is soft. Lol

These “Done w the 90’s” clips are hilarious off GP, but they’re hella chopped & screwed to show lowlights. Lol. What’s crazy is KG, Pierce, Allen, Kobe, Shaq, Nash, A.I, Dirk, T-Mac, VC, Kidd were all 90’s babies, & yet they thrived in the 2000’s & 2010’s. ****, Dirk and Kidd got their chip in the 2010’s against LBJ. Lol. A washed up MJ at 39 before his injury avg. more points than T-Mac (25.1 ppg vs. 24.3 ppg), avg. more assist than T-Mac (5.3 apg v. 4.8 apg), & avg. steals than T-Mac (1.5 spg v. 1.3 spg) in the 2000’s & T-Mac was in his prime! Lol

Also, this notion that 80’s-90’s ball didn’t play zone like today is bull ****. Illegal defense was called as often as travel and carry in today’s NBA; yes, there was a rule, but it was rarely enforced. The “Jordan Rule” was zone, w Lambeer & or Rodman camped in the paint, waiting to either hard double or collapse on Jordan. There was no 3 sec rule, so a defender can stay in paint all day long.
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Man you went to hard on my boy T-mac. He was my favorite player growing up. Just could never get past the first round lol. Bought the shoes and loved them so much if I got in trouble at school my mom would take them away for two weeks as punishment haha.
 
TOcane said:
Man you went to hard on my boy T-mac. He was my favorite player growing up. Just could never get past the first round lol. Bought the shoes and loved them so much if I got in trouble at school my mom would take them away for two weeks as punishment haha.
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No, no my man; that wasn’t my point. Lol. I was doing a comparison to debunk this notion that 90’s b-ball was trash showing how MJ, the face of the 90’s, enters the 2000’s washed up & was still getting buckets, so I used T-Mac (who, imo, should’ve been on the Top 75 list) as a guideline to show how underrated MJ’s Wizards years were b4 the injury. That was no shade to young Tracy. Dude is a hog, but he ain’t never had a team like that around him. Maybe he & VC could’ve built something special.
 
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TOcane said:
Drive by the T-mac stadium in Auburndale to go to a customers office every now and then. I did not realize he was from there until I saw that a couple months ago.
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There's an article written a long time ago by an author who thinks that he was sich a natural that it things came too easily for him.

If I find it I'll link it.
 
He's a talent acquirer not a good coach. I don't think the draft will tell us anything. If we get players drafted or if they succeed in the league it will just be another example over the decades of how we should have been better. If not then it's an example of **** poor development and acquisition. That's not really a positive to be gained until we start winning.

Hope things go well for the guys that left.
 
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DMoney said:

There’s no hiding when it comes to the NFL Draft. If you’ve been struggling with talent evaluation and acquisition, the Draft will expose you. If you’re recruiting guys with subpar measurables, the Combine will expose them. It’s an unforgiving and unsentimental process.

The Miami Hurricanes had a rough time at last weekend’s combine, with Leonard Taylor, James Williams and Kam Kinchens all performing below expectations. Javion Cohen elected not to run his forty and faced questions about his departure from Alabama. Matt Lee had a tremendous workout, but has long-term durability concerns.
All told, it’s possible that no Hurricane goes on Days 1 and 2. This is what Mario Cristobal was brought in to fix. Here’s the good news: as many as six players signed by Mario Cristobal could go in the Top 100: OC Jackson Powers-Johnson, WR Troy Franklin, OT Kingsley Suamataia, DL Brandon Dorlus, RB Trey Benson and CB DJ James. Two of those players left Oregon after Mario came to Miami, and another left to BYU when he got homesick. But all were evaluated, recruited and signed by Mario Cristobal.
I joined Peter Ariz to talk about this and other Hurricane-related draft topics on the CanesInSight Daily Podcast. First, we broke down the combine numbers for each set of players. It quickly became clear that Cristobal was recruiting a higher level of measurables than Miami from 2019-2021:

  • Kam Kinchens: 5’11, 203, 4.65, 35-inch vert, 9’2 broad
  • James Williams: 6’4, 231, 4.65, 30-inch vert, 9’9 broad
  • Leonard Taylor: 6’3, 303, 5.12 (1.76 split), 30-inch vert, 9’1 broad, 7.81 3 cone
  • Javion Cohen: 6’4, 324, 26’5-inch vert, 8’8 broad
  • Matt Lee: 6’4, 301, 5.03 forty (1.76 split) 31-inch vert, 9’3 broad
Compare those numbers to Cristobal’s signees:

  • Jackson Powers-Johnson: 6’3, 328, 32-inch vert, 8’8 broad, 30 bench reps
  • Troy Franklin: 6’2, 174, 4.41, 39-inch vert, 10’4 broad jump
  • Kingsley Suamataia: 6’5, 326, 5.04 forty (1.74), 28-inch vert, 9’2 broad, 31 bench reps
  • Brandon Dorlus: 6’3, 283, 4.85 (1.68 split), 30.5-inch vert, 9’3 broad
  • Trey Benson: 6’0, 216, 4.39, 33.5-inch vert, 10’2 broad
  • DJ James: 6’0, 175, 4.41
The most frustrating evaluation is Dorlus, a Deerfield Beach grad who outperformed every single player in Miami’s class that year. He was underrated, but not a secret– myself, Coach Macho and other board regulars promoted him as one of the year’s top sleepers. Cristobal identified him, came across the country and stole him from under Manny Diaz’s nose.

Will Cristobal be able to recreate his success as an evaluator at Oregon in Miami? That remains to be seen. But the NFL Draft will tell us a lot, and there are some encouraging signs this year.

Later in the Podcast, Peter Ariz polled some of his NFL scouting sources to get a feel for the draft range of Miami’s top prospects. Here is what he found:

Kam Kinchens: “Second to third round range was always more likely because there was an understanding that the physical testing may not be his strong suit. Obviously, he didn't put up good numbers at all. But scouts know that he went out there and ran on an ankle that was not 100%. Most of the time guys are looking for any excuse not to run. A lot of the feedback I've gotten is that it confirms who Kam is character-wise and as a football player. So I think third round is probably where Kam goes off the board. He blew the interview process out of the water and has another opportunity to to test at Pro Day. Hopefully, he’s 100%.”

James Williams: “By the numbers in his safety group, he did not stack up well testing-wise. But you understand his NFL role is going to be as more of a linebacker. Here’s the question for the scouts: they want to project him at linebacker because his skill set could be really, really dangerous there. But they haven't seen that on film. They haven't seen the consistent physicality, the consistency as a tackler or as a striker. So the film needs to match what they want him to be. I think probably fifth to seventh round, someone will take a chance on his skill set. It's going to take a scheme-specific team that takes him and really thinks they can put him in a role.”

Javion Cohen: “He’s a very interesting one. Went to the Senior Bowl and had a good week. Did not run at the combine but did a field workout, and I’m told he did a good job there. I think the question is, he's at Alabama and was All-Conference. Why do you leave Alabama to go to Miami? Team are digging into his background.”

Leonard Taylor: “Leonard Taylor did not have a productive year on the field. Before the season, I talked to people who told me he does stuff as an interior pass rusher and he has ability as an interior pass rusher that is hard to find. Does he give it a hundred percent every play? Does he have that motor? Those are the questions these scouts have tried to figure out. He did not test well. And that was something he was supposed to have in his back pocket because the production was not there. Someone will take him fifth, sixth, seventh round. Probably closer to six or seventh round for him.”

Matt Lee: “Awesome day of testing for him. He has a couple things going against him: number 1, being a center, there's only 32 starting centers in the league. A lot of times these backups now are hybrid guys who can play some guard as well as center. Matt Lee is pretty much only a center. He's not going to be able to play guard at the next level. And then the medical side. There might be some concerns that he's not going to be able to stay completely healthy for more than a few years. But that's not to say he can't get drafted late, get an opportunity in a camp. He has all the ability to play there. If the medical was clean, he'd be a mid-round guy. No doubt about it. But if he can get into a camp, stay healthy, teams won't have any objection to giving him a multi-year deal. I think probably late round to undrafted for him, a priority free agent. If that's the case, he'll have plenty of suitors because he can play for sure.”

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Are you saying what THIS YEARS DRAFT will tell us? Or moving forward? I'd say this year's draft shows little and doesn't apply much context for us. Maybe that's just me though.
 
DMoney said:
The video compares guys Mario signed at Oregon versus guys Mario inherited at Miami in this year's draft.
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Do you think either situation is comparable to the level he's bringing talent in at now? Oregon he was able to get some very good talent in at particular positions. Now I believe he's able to recruit every position at an elite level(not meaning that he currently IS doing that at every position, simply that moving forward nothing is off limits for him.
 
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Missed most of this thread but I'm with D$ here - development is so overrated. There is no one that takes HS nobodies and turns them into draft picks. Underrated guys? Sure. But there's always a telling sign from testing or track numbers or something that they found that made them pursue that kid. If anyone does do it.. it's the S&C program not the position coach, coordinator, or HC. Physical and mental development takes place in the weight room. Habits and work ethic are created there or already exist and separate the kids over 3-5 years in the weight room.

Outside of QB... 90% of the time... the kid is going to end up being what they end up being regardless... Especially physically. There's some fine tuning, polishing, etc. that goes into it with coaches. Some S&C programs are better than others but its very marginal - sure all of this can be the difference in a 4th rounder vs a 1st rounder or a 5th rounder and an UDFA. But no one is taking Henry Parrish and making him Benson, Brooks, or Corum. No one was taking Mike Redding and making him Marvin Harrison. Also, nobody developed Marvin Harrison, nobody developed Benson, nobody developed Malik Nabers. No one is out there turning Lou Cristobal into a 1st round monster. Texas WRs coach didn't do anything to Xavier Worthy. FSU didn't do anything to Benson or Verse except maybe put them in the lime light of the FBS (Verse) or put them in a system that they shine in (Benson). Had that not happened, Verse would have come out of Albany in the 3rd round and someone would be claiming "developing" or "finding a hidden gem" in the league. If Benson went to Mississippi State from Oregon and played in their terrible offense that was outmanned.. he'd tested into the 4th-5th round and then the same thing applies.

The biggest thing is identification and projection. Certain positions are less about physical traits projecting production.. like surprising enough speed isn't a strong indicator on WRs. But it's a nice extra layer of the evaluation process.

Much more goes into it than I can type here. Evaluating future NFL prospects when they come out of HS and signing them is a lot more important than who is coaching them. More importantly.. Mario is going to be crowned or exposed in the next 2-3-4 years when his classes that he identified, recruited, signed, coached, etc. all at Miami and all the way through. They're juniors now. I will say it doesn't look promising on that transition 2022 class but that is what it is. The 2023 class looks much stronger in that regard.
 
Brooklyndee said:
Do you think either situation is comparable to the level he's bringing talent in at now? Oregon he was able to get some very good talent in at particular positions. Now I believe he's able to recruit every position at an elite level(not meaning that he currently IS doing that at every position, simply that moving forward nothing is off limits for him.
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Agreed. This should be an even higher level.
 
ALLoverCANE said:
Jordan at his peak was better than LBJ at his peak. Here's the argument for LBJ:

-40k career points is insane
-Longevity and durability
-The talent pool was much deeper during LBJ's era, due to European players
-There was much more player movement during LBJ's era. Players teamed up to win rings while LBJ was around
-LBJ is the most versatile player of all time. If you were having an all time draft, he'd likely go #1 bc you can pick anyone at #2. You can't pick Kobe second if you pick MJ first, for example
-Losing in the finals isn't worse than losing before the finals

There's no wrong answer. It just depends what you value and how you define GOAT
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LBJ is too PASSive to be the GOAT. Jordan all day. And I was born in the early 90s so I didn’t even watch Jordan. LBJ and the new NBA is garbage
 
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