What must Al accomplish to stay off the hot seat next year?

[Consigliere]

i would agree with you.. but duke's been developing those guys in the same system for 6+ years... and our class that should be seniors this year... was ranked 36th in that "power ranking" page q did... 36th! that's not good, and that's what we've been leaning on.

Here's the reality....Coaches who get hired at "established" programs and do not show an ability to make chicken salad out of chicken crap quickly...rarely ever succeed.

Look at the last 15 years at the coaches who took over for fired guys....
Saban at LSU...Year 2 10-3 SEC Champs (took over a 3 win team)
Stoops at OU....Year 2 12-0 BCS Champs (took over a team that won 12 games, previous 3 years, had no QB's on roster)
Carroll at USC...Year 2 11-2 #4
Richt at UGA...Year 2 13-1 SEC Champs
Meyer at UF....Year 2 13-1 BCS Champs
Saban at Bama....Year 2 12-0 in SECCG before losing to Tebow and then Utah
Meyer at OSU.....Year 1 12-0
Mahlzan at AU....Year 1...13-1 BCS title game loss.
Jimbo at FSU...Year 1 took a 7-6 team to 10-4 and ACCCG, 12-2 Year 3
Tressell at OSU....Year 2 went 13-0 BCS Champs

Guys like Hoke, Chizik, Weis had success early and still struggled afterward.....so early success is not a guarantee.

But give me the guy who just "met expectations" on the field for 3 years and turned them into a powerhouse?

Mack Brown still won his division and was 27-11 3 years into taking over a Texas team that had 15 straight seasons without a top 10 finish before him.
Butch only lost more than 3 games twice..and had crippling scholarship losses.

I honestly ask....who is the model that we can point to and say AL can be just like him. Who is the 22-15 guy? John Cooper?

I agree Monkey, most guys at powerhouse programs don't get a chance if they don't succeed right away. They have higher expectations and they enforce these expectations.

The only guy I can think of that some could argue just "met expectations" was John Harbaugh. Clearly Stanford was an old powerhouse and nothing special recently. It took some time but even in year 3 under Harbaugh they were still losing to teams with losing records. I think some of this was okay because Jim beat #2 USC his first year and #7 Oregon and #11 USC his third year. In addition, I think people saw dramatic changes in the quality of play.

Year 1: 4-8 (3-6) [Lost to Washington 4-9 (2-7) and Wash State 5-7 (3-6)]
Year 2: 5-7 (4-5) [Lost to UCLA 4-8 (3-6)]
Year 3: 8-5 (6-3) at this point he was 17-20 [Lost to Wake Forest 5-7 (3-5)]
Year 4: 12-1 (8-1)

 

[DaU83]

i would agree with you.. but duke's been developing those guys in the same system for 6+ years... and our class that should be seniors this year... was ranked 36th in that "power ranking" page q did... 36th! that's not good, and that's what we've been leaning on.

Here's the reality....Coaches who get hired at "established" programs and do not show an ability to make chicken salad out of chicken crap quickly...rarely ever succeed.

Look at the last 15 years at the coaches who took over for fired guys....
Saban at LSU...Year 2 10-3 SEC Champs (took over a 3 win team)
Stoops at OU....Year 2 12-0 BCS Champs (took over a team that won 12 games, previous 3 years, had no QB's on roster)
Carroll at USC...Year 2 11-2 #4
Richt at UGA...Year 2 13-1 SEC Champs
Meyer at UF....Year 2 13-1 BCS Champs
Saban at Bama....Year 2 12-0 in SECCG before losing to Tebow and then Utah
Meyer at OSU.....Year 1 12-0
Mahlzan at AU....Year 1...13-1 BCS title game loss.
Jimbo at FSU...Year 1 took a 7-6 team to 10-4 and ACCCG, 12-2 Year 3
Tressell at OSU....Year 2 went 13-0 BCS Champs

Guys like Hoke, Chizik, Weis had success early and still struggled afterward.....so early success is not a guarantee.

But give me the guy who just "met expectations" on the field for 3 years and turned them into a powerhouse?

Mack Brown still won his division and was 27-11 3 years into taking over a Texas team that had 15 straight seasons without a top 10 finish before him.
Butch only lost more than 3 games twice..and had crippling scholarship losses.

I honestly ask....who is the model that we can point to and say AL can be just like him. Who is the 22-15 guy? John Cooper?

You may be right, and I don't have the time to go through each individual example and see how it compares to what al golden got.. If any of those programs were mired in mediocrity for 8 plus seasons, then had a huge NCAA investigation (that affects recruiting) at the beginning of the tenure of any of those coaches.. then you're absolutely right.

 

[monkey1371]

You may be right, and I don't have the time to go through each individual example and see how it compares to what al golden got.. If any of those programs were mired in mediocrity for 8 plus seasons, then had a huge NCAA investigation (that affects recruiting) at the beginning of the tenure of any of those coaches.. then you're absolutely right.

I get a kick out of it because you guys want to talk out of both sides of your mouths.......For example.

2013....Al was depending on a senior class that was ranked 36th....hence the reason for the uneven play. On the flipside though.....In 2011 and 2012.....Al had a senior class that was ranked #5 and #15....So why the worse record then?

As I addressed in my last post....The NCAA cloud affected on the field for the first 6 games in 2011 because of suspensions...Legit Reason. Not a reason for losing to a 4-8 BC at home in the last game that season.

But how much it affected recruiting....which shows 2-3 years down the road....is very debatable. If it is such a black & white, Yes it did.

Why is the 2014 class(with no clouds) not much different than the 2013 and 2012 classes that had clouds?

All those guys made chicken salad out of the chicken crap with what they were left.....and that is the rule. The exception is the guy who needs 4 years to get his own guys and clear out all the old junk(Harbaugh & Crickets).

Those are the simple facts.....the odds right now are very long that Al turns into what we hope him to be....history of the sport shows that.

 

[Consigliere]

I get a kick out of it because you guys want to talk out of both sides of your mouths.......For example.

2013....Al was depending on a senior class that was ranked 36th....hence the reason for the uneven play. On the flipside though.....In 2011 and 2012.....Al had a senior class that was ranked #5 and #15....So why the worse record then?

As I addressed in my last post....The NCAA cloud affected on the field for the first 6 games in 2011 because of suspensions...Legit Reason. Not a reason for losing to a 4-8 BC at home in the last game that season.

But how much it affected recruiting....which shows 2-3 years down the road....is very debatable. If it is such a black & white, Yes it did.

Why is the 2014 class(with no clouds) not much different than the 2013 and 2012 classes that had clouds?

All those guys made chicken salad out of the chicken crap with what they were left.....and that is the rule. The exception is the guy who needs 4 years to get his own guys and clear out all the old junk(Harbaugh & Crickets).

Those are the simple facts.....the odds right now are very long that Al turns into what we hope him to be....history of the sport shows that.

I agree. The odds are really stacked against him too because he is reluctant to make the necessary changes (i.e. Jethro, Kehoe and Coach D).

We went 9-3 during the regular season and 5-3 in the ACC. We had 3 losses in the ACC, our defense allowed 120+ points combined.

I expect similar results from our defense in 2014.

 

[Miami82]

The seat is starting to get warm. The media has started questioning him, especially about the defense and the tone of conversations are starting to change.

The schedule is much tougher this year and Al has not shown any ability to out coach anyone yet. This team starts out 2-3 or 3-4 which is very possible with this defense.....Stands are going to be ghost towns in this apathetic fanbase. When you see only 20-25k going to games late in a season(aka Randy year 4).....that seat is going to get really, really hot....despite the huge extension.

If he doesn't get to the ACCCG game (unless he goes 9-3+ with big wins and VT or someone else turns out to be an 11-1 type team).....He will lose the vast majority of the fanbase and talk radio will just rip him non stop.

If he has 6-7-8 wins....Won't get fired, but admin will put huge pressure on him and staff changes will be made.

Under 6 wins.....Firing is a strong possibility and probably likely. As you are looking at 1997 like attendance of 15-20k a game if you bring him back.

Bottom line....His teams should be better than they are, not Bama, FSU better....but better. Ed Reed, Jerome Brown, Dan Morgan, Warren Sapp are needed to be a Bama, but they are not playing on teams like Marshall, ECU, Syracuse that can shutdown bad offenses like WF and VT. At some point you have to start winning and overachieve instead of consistently barely meeting expectations.

Do you think he is meeting expectations?

 

[DaU83]

You may be right, and I don't have the time to go through each individual example and see how it compares to what al golden got.. If any of those programs were mired in mediocrity for 8 plus seasons, then had a huge NCAA investigation (that affects recruiting) at the beginning of the tenure of any of those coaches.. then you're absolutely right.

I get a kick out of it because you guys want to talk out of both sides of your mouths.......For example.

2013....Al was depending on a senior class that was ranked 36th....hence the reason for the uneven play. On the flipside though.....In 2011 and 2012.....Al had a senior class that was ranked #5 and #15....So why the worse record then?

As I addressed in my last post....The NCAA cloud affected on the field for the first 6 games in 2011 because of suspensions...Legit Reason. Not a reason for losing to a 4-8 BC at home in the last game that season.

But how much it affected recruiting....which shows 2-3 years down the road....is very debatable. If it is such a black & white, Yes it did.

Why is the 2014 class(with no clouds) not much different than the 2013 and 2012 classes that had clouds?

All those guys made chicken salad out of the chicken crap with what they were left.....and that is the rule. The exception is the guy who needs 4 years to get his own guys and clear out all the old junk(Harbaugh & Crickets).

Those are the simple facts.....the odds right now are very long that Al turns into what we hope him to be....history of the sport shows that.

But those guys weren't that good, either because they didn't have the talent.. or because they weren't developed by Randy's staff.... maybe al golden is not the guy. But we have seen nothing as of yet that makes that definitive.. the only thing definitive is that he took temple from the dregs to respectable and since he's left they've gone back to the dregs.

 

[WhatTheHell]

But we have seen nothing as of yet that makes that definitive..

Stats say otherwise.

 

[monkey1371]

The seat is starting to get warm. The media has started questioning him, especially about the defense and the tone of conversations are starting to change.

The schedule is much tougher this year and Al has not shown any ability to out coach anyone yet. This team starts out 2-3 or 3-4 which is very possible with this defense.....Stands are going to be ghost towns in this apathetic fanbase. When you see only 20-25k going to games late in a season(aka Randy year 4).....that seat is going to get really, really hot....despite the huge extension.

If he doesn't get to the ACCCG game (unless he goes 9-3+ with big wins and VT or someone else turns out to be an 11-1 type team).....He will lose the vast majority of the fanbase and talk radio will just rip him non stop.

If he has 6-7-8 wins....Won't get fired, but admin will put huge pressure on him and staff changes will be made.

Under 6 wins.....Firing is a strong possibility and probably likely. As you are looking at 1997 like attendance of 15-20k a game if you bring him back.

Bottom line....His teams should be better than they are, not Bama, FSU better....but better. Ed Reed, Jerome Brown, Dan Morgan, Warren Sapp are needed to be a Bama, but they are not playing on teams like Marshall, ECU, Syracuse that can shutdown bad offenses like WF and VT. At some point you have to start winning and overachieve instead of consistently barely meeting expectations.

Do you think he is meeting expectations?

He is doing "just enough" not to be on the hot seat, nothing more. So I guess, he is meeting expectations. People look at at 6,7,9 on the surface and say he is improving what else do you want. The die-hards saw through that same thing with Randy as he was going 5,7,9.
- Certain improvements are not happening fast enough just like Randy.
- We see through the easy schedule they had last year that inflated the teams record. What a wasted opportunity last year was.
- We see the 1-22 career record against teams with fewer than 5 losses. (Beat a 10-4 Navy while at Temple)

Here is what I ask anyone who is debating me....What have you seen in 3 years to say...."That was special", "I can see the light at the end of the tunnel", "I know this is definitely going to work because of...."

The defense is so, so bad it is mind boggling. I never thought I would see a unit as bad as the Nix offenses at Miami(Marshall, GT, NC State and UVA all holding Miami under 100 yards passing at home in the same season). But the defense the last 2 seasons is just as bad if not worse. Randy at least canned Nix after 2 years, despite improvement in year 2. Al has not taken that step.

That is why I am down on him, I know he has had to deal with a lot of crap, some of which is his own doing, but most he was handed......but I have seen nothing special. At this point he has been just another guy. And a JAG will not win big at Miami.

 

[Dan E. Dangerously]

Win at least 10 games and win the sorry *** Coastal.

This is all I care about.

It really should be WTACCOGTFO, but I know we're not gonna do that.

Yea. WTACCOGTFO is my mantra for the simple fact that he's keeping D'Onofrio. He chose him over making a change so he has to win with him, and the defense has to perform next year.

But since I know that's not going to happen, if he...

wins 9 games,
wins the coastal,
and wins the bowl game,

everyone (vast majority) will see it as an improvement. And I'd have a hard time arguing against it.

Just wanted to add he needs to stop saying the word "cloud". That **** is beyond annoying. Come up with a different buzzword, or a different talking point. Something. Just change it up for me. I get a nervous tick every time he says it.

 

[monkey1371]

Just wanted to add he needs to stop saying the word "cloud". That **** is beyond annoying. Come up with a different buzzword, or a different talking point. Something. Just change it up for me. I get a nervous tick every time he says it.

Agree....Also enough of the **** talking point about how it is the offenses fault that his buddies defense can't hold the #83, #89, #97, #101, #113, #118 and #121 ranked offenses in CFB under 500 yards.

Stop with that....such an insult to our intelligence.

 

[WhatTheHell]

Al uses The Cloud more than any rival ever has.

 

[Dghustla]

The ppl who are still blindly defending Golden need to just stop already. I still like AL but let's get somethings ironed out.

1) As a coach he has not gotten better since his arrival at UM. Not saying he won't but he hasn't yet. Gameday coaching and adjustments are non-exsitent. excuse are now piling up. Coach refuses to change his scheme for the sake of winning. He should talk to coach L.

2) recruiting Als strong suit. Quit frankly the last 2 years Al's got his *** kicked cloud or no cloud. He hasn't closed the deal on more than 1 key premiere player the last 2 cycles. 1 elite DT, where are the LBs, 1 elite WR and 1 Elite Hb (coley really)....

3)NOT firing D'Onfrio....accepting mediocrity plan and simple. if you think this didn't cost us recruits you're in denial. Coach D is the new cloud as Dmoney put it.

4) Penn State: Al begged for this job on his hands and knees and was flat out turned downed. He was emotionally devastated and everyone who heard those interviews after his statement on sunday know its true. Bottom line is Penn State saw that he wasn't able to win the coastal with more talent than his counter parts in the division. what the **** would he do with that abysmal Penn State Roster? barely winning 9 games and posting a defense in the 70-120 doesn't get you a new gig at BCS program Al learned this the hard way.

On the bright side the rejection by Penn State was probably an eye opener for AL. Prior to that he was a heavily sought after coach. Ppl respect what he's done with the "cloud". But admin and boosters aren't buying the fools gold when they look at the embarrassing losses and Al's refusal to address the real problem which is his best friend. Hopefully this has made Al realize that he can no longer live on his Temple resume as a "up and comer" and that he needs to actually arrive, and win something. not feaux victories "We won the coastal and gave that up"...no we didn't win the coastal. UNC won the coastal but were understand sanctions.

 

[DaU83]

But we have seen nothing as of yet that makes that definitive..

Stats say otherwise.

let's look at the simplest stat.. Won Loss record.... get back to me.

 

[WhatTheHell]

But we have seen nothing as of yet that makes that definitive..

Stats say otherwise.

let's look at the simplest stat.. Won Loss record.... get back to me.

Was this post copy pasted from Shannon's third year, or did you have to re-type it?

 

[DaU83]

But we have seen nothing as of yet that makes that definitive..

Stats say otherwise.

let's look at the simplest stat.. Won Loss record.... get back to me.

Was this post copy pasted from Shannon's third year, or did you have to re-type it?

The difference is Shannon had no track record of being able to get it done. We have actual proof that Al can get it done, and put together a good defense as well.

 

[WhatTheHell]

He's 1-22 in his career against teams with fewer than 5 losses.

He went 0-4 this year against the best teams on the schedule and lost by an average score of 41-19.

He's a career .500 coach

He's been a DC or HC for 13 seasons, his total defenses have averaged a ranking of 68th.

He's fielded a top 30 overall defense only 2 times in 13 seasons.

He's finished with a defenses ranking 80th or worse 6 times in 13 seasons.


I've seen all I need to see.

 

[monkey1371]

The difference is Shannon had no track record of being able to get it done. We have actual proof that Al can get it done, and put together a good defense as well.

That is wrong....we have proof that Al can get a team that has NO EXPECTATIONS to an 8-9 win season.....Like Jethro did at Vandy.

We have NO PROOF that he can get a team that is EXPECTED TO WIN to 11-12 win type seasons.
We have NO PROOF that he can beat a good team.

We have HOPE not PROOF.

 

[valid]

He's 1-22 in his career against teams with fewer than 5 losses.

He went 0-4 this year against the best teams on the schedule and lost by an average score of 41-19.

He's a career .500 coach

He's been a DC or HC for 13 seasons, his total defenses have averaged a ranking of 68th.

He's fielded a top 30 overall defense only 2 times in 13 seasons.

He's finished with a defenses ranking 80th or worse 6 times in 13 seasons.


I've seen all I need to see.

Reading this made my ***** shrivel down to the size of a baby carrot. SMFH

 

[NateDogg]

The ppl who are still blindly defending Golden need to just stop already. I still like AL but let's get somethings ironed out.

1) As a coach he has not gotten better since his arrival at UM. Not saying he won't but he hasn't yet. Gameday coaching and adjustments are non-exsitent. excuse are now piling up. Coach refuses to change his scheme for the sake of winning. He should talk to coach L.

2) recruiting Als strong suit. Quit frankly the last 2 years Al's got his *** kicked cloud or no cloud. He hasn't closed the deal on more than 1 key premiere player the last 2 cycles. 1 elite DT, where are the LBs, 1 elite WR and 1 Elite Hb (coley really)....

3)NOT firing D'Onfrio....accepting mediocrity plan and simple. if you think this didn't cost us recruits you're in denial. Coach D is the new cloud as Dmoney put it.

4) Penn State: Al begged for this job on his hands and knees and was flat out turned downed. He was emotionally devastated and everyone who heard those interviews after his statement on sunday know its true. Bottom line is Penn State saw that he wasn't able to win the coastal with more talent than his counter parts in the division. what the **** would he do with that abysmal Penn State Roster? barely winning 9 games and posting a defense in the 70-120 doesn't get you a new gig at BCS program Al learned this the hard way.

On the bright side the rejection by Penn State was probably an eye opener for AL. Prior to that he was a heavily sought after coach. Ppl respect what he's done with the "cloud". But admin and boosters aren't buying the fools gold when they look at the embarrassing losses and Al's refusal to address the real problem which is his best friend. Hopefully this has made Al realize that he can no longer live on his Temple resume as a "up and comer" and that he needs to actually arrive, and win something. not feaux victories "We won the coastal and gave that up"...no we didn't win the coastal. UNC won the coastal but were understand sanctions.

That is some real talk right there. Regardless of what side of the aisle any of us are on...every word of this is real talk. cot **** preach on!

 

[poncho0091]

But we have seen nothing as of yet that makes that definitive..

Stats say otherwise.

let's look at the simplest stat.. Won Loss record.... get back to me.

Was this post copy pasted from Shannon's third year, or did you have to re-type it?

The difference is Shannon had no track record of being able to get it done. We have actual proof that Al can get it done, and put together a good defense as well.

We don't have proof of either of those because he was playing some of the worst teams in college football. He also has yet to hit double digit wins ever in his career. If anything, Al has proven he has a track record of mediocrity.