What must Al accomplish to stay off the hot seat next year?

[DaU83]

If we win 8-10 games next season, the seat won't even be warm.. now if we win 5-7 games and the defense is still deplorable, then i think they'll turn up the heat.. That said, i don't think duke's success is sustainable long term.. and who knows what VT is going to trot out there on Offense.. i think UNC will be a tough out next year.

 

[JimiGerman]

It's simple...

DO NOT GET EMBARRASSED ON NATIONAL TV FOR THE 4TH CONSECUTIVE YEAR.

Just compete, win the 8 or 9 games that this team is talented enough to win and don't lose any by more than 10 points.

As for Onofrio, that D better be Top 50 (generous) or his useless *** can kick rocks.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I'll aim fairly low: Get our defense back to a competent level allowing 5.0 yards per play. Heck, I'll settle for 5.10. That still wouldn't be any good. We'd be surrendering a yard per play to the premier defensive teams. Florida State most likely will threaten the 4.0 range again. But at 5.0 at least we'd be back to top 40 or 50.

Prior to the Golden/D'Onofrio era, 5.0 was weak for the Canes. But during the past three seasons the best we have managed is 5.48 and the average is just below 5.80. That's ridiculous.

 

[SmokeyRone]

Win the Coastal. No excuses.

 

[Hurricane5Champs]

I know this is a touchy subject but what do you feel are the benchmarks for next year?

Think we need to win 10 games, win the Coastal, and the defense has to be greatly improved, its year 4 and the 3rd year with his players. We have two true elite playmakers in Coley and Duke, and this will be the most talented defense we have had since 2011(yeah I know, shortest midget......) 9 wins might work if we are al least competitive and improved but 8 wins would be a disaster and would surely make the recruiting class fall apart. It really is put up or shut up for Al, I know he still has that last card of firing Dorito if need be but next year will be the year that ultimately determines his future, even though I realize unless he completely tanks would not get fire.

Everyone keeps saying 3rd year with his players. He has not been able to get "his" players until this year because of the NCAA nonsense. Once again, this time last year we were all still wondering if we would have additional penalties. Now we expect one good class to turn us around. Al Golden is not going anywhere. Give him a chance to build this program.

 

[poncho0091]

real hot seat? or our fans with 0 perspective hot seat?

Are there fans that overreact? Sure. Are there fans who blindly follow and would positively follow regardless of how bad the truth might actually be? Yes.

What you need to understand is at this point, we MIGHT be somewhere in the middle, but we are progressively trending downward (I know contrary to wins). We are not showing that we are any better on the field and our schedule got significantly easier this year. All of the usual challenging teams on our schedule were in down years except FSU (they still only count as 1 game). Wins don't tell the entire story. I don't have to be a pro scout to see that what we were doing on defense this year (or the last 3 for that matter) was not working. I'm on the lean that Golden will not succeed, because he's not willing to make the necessary adjustments. You cannot succeed when you give up the first 5-8 yards for free every play.

People want to keep talking about our talent. Most of us understand we do not have championship talent, but we don't have sun belt talent either. We have enough talent to not be an embarrassment against scrub teams (Notice I did not say elite FSU level teams).

You can defend Golden and believe in the staff, but please quit deflecting the blame and making excuses for this staff. At some point, people have to realize it all falls back on the coaches. Even with the cloud, we have recruited well enough that with proper player development and coaching, we should not look this bad against teams like Wake Forest.

we're trending upward, technically.. by all measurable categories, btw. I'm not sure why our 3 star talent should be automatically better than anyone elses 3 star talent.. especially when we've had 2 consecutive HC's and staffs that have not proven to be able to accomplish anything. It's really not about deflecting blame and excuses. It's about seeing our reality, people act like our staff is having our studs under perform.. when they might just be getting the most out of what we had.

The problem for me is our classes of 25+ 3, 4, and 5 star talent guys should be better than Duke's classes of 20 2-3 star guys.

 

[pb5cane]

Well said.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

The problem for me is our classes of 25+ 3, 4, and 5 star talent guys should be better than Duke's classes of 20 2-3 star guys.

It doesn't necessarily work this way. Ask FSU about WF's 2-3 star kids that beat them in 2011. Ask them about the 2-3 star NC State kids that beat them. And the talent discrepancy between FSU and both those teams were greater than ours vs Duke's, if any at all.

 

[dolpterry]

Win the games we are favored in and at least compete and have a chance in the rest.

 

[poncho0091]

The problem for me is our classes of 25+ 3, 4, and 5 star talent guys should be better than Duke's classes of 20 2-3 star guys.

It doesn't necessarily work this way. Ask FSU about WF's 2-3 star kids that beat them in 2011. Ask them about the 2-3 star NC State kids that beat them. And the talent discrepancy between FSU and both those teams were greater than ours vs Duke's, if any at all.

Did WF embarrass FSU on the field, or did they pull off a crazy upset special? That is the point. Duke did not pull of some kind of upset on us, and I'm not even mad about the loss. I felt like Duke was a good team. The problem to me is that those 2-3 star kids from Duke looked like they were the team that was always on top and we looked like the scrub team that wishes they could pull off the upset.

If coaching ability between Al and Cutcliffe were even close to equal, we would have wiped the floor with them. Despite the cloud, we have still out-recruited Duke, and that is including all of the players we have had leave. Duke regularly only signs about 20 guys to any class, while 2 of the last 3 years we are around 30 and had around 20 last year. Of their 20 guys, most are 2 stars. Of our 20-30 guys, most are 3 star or better. Yes this is all on paper, but if we hit on even half of those guys, we are easily better.

The Duke game to me was not important because we lost. It was important to me because it showed how outclassed Al is as a coach imo.

 

[monkey1371]

The problem for me is our classes of 25+ 3, 4, and 5 star talent guys should be better than Duke's classes of 20 2-3 star guys.

It doesn't necessarily work this way. Ask FSU about WF's 2-3 star kids that beat them in 2011. Ask them about the 2-3 star NC State kids that beat them. And the talent discrepancy between FSU and both those teams were greater than ours vs Duke's, if any at all.

That really isn't a valid analogy.....1 or 2 game sample sizes will always produce anomalies....ULM beat Saban and Bama,

The issue is.....Why are our 75 3,4,5* guys producing the worst defense in the ACC against the run over the last 3 years? Not whether we lost to a Duke team having a once in a generation season in a single game. Its the fact that 10 other teams in the ACC with much less "paper talent" are performing much better than our defense every single week.

 

[DaU83]

real hot seat? or our fans with 0 perspective hot seat?

Are there fans that overreact? Sure. Are there fans who blindly follow and would positively follow regardless of how bad the truth might actually be? Yes.

What you need to understand is at this point, we MIGHT be somewhere in the middle, but we are progressively trending downward (I know contrary to wins). We are not showing that we are any better on the field and our schedule got significantly easier this year. All of the usual challenging teams on our schedule were in down years except FSU (they still only count as 1 game). Wins don't tell the entire story. I don't have to be a pro scout to see that what we were doing on defense this year (or the last 3 for that matter) was not working. I'm on the lean that Golden will not succeed, because he's not willing to make the necessary adjustments. You cannot succeed when you give up the first 5-8 yards for free every play.

People want to keep talking about our talent. Most of us understand we do not have championship talent, but we don't have sun belt talent either. We have enough talent to not be an embarrassment against scrub teams (Notice I did not say elite FSU level teams).

You can defend Golden and believe in the staff, but please quit deflecting the blame and making excuses for this staff. At some point, people have to realize it all falls back on the coaches. Even with the cloud, we have recruited well enough that with proper player development and coaching, we should not look this bad against teams like Wake Forest.

we're trending upward, technically.. by all measurable categories, btw. I'm not sure why our 3 star talent should be automatically better than anyone elses 3 star talent.. especially when we've had 2 consecutive HC's and staffs that have not proven to be able to accomplish anything. It's really not about deflecting blame and excuses. It's about seeing our reality, people act like our staff is having our studs under perform.. when they might just be getting the most out of what we had.

The problem for me is our classes of 25+ 3, 4, and 5 star talent guys should be better than Duke's classes of 20 2-3 star guys.

i would agree with you.. but duke's been developing those guys in the same system for 6+ years... and our class that should be seniors this year... was ranked 36th in that "power ranking" page q did... 36th! that's not good, and that's what we've been leaning on.

 

[CanesVan]

Doesn't matter. Won't happen next year. Let's accept mediocrity for a little while longer.

 

[monkey1371]

i would agree with you.. but duke's been developing those guys in the same system for 6+ years... and our class that should be seniors this year... was ranked 36th in that "power ranking" page q did... 36th! that's not good, and that's what we've been leaning on.

Here's the reality....Coaches who get hired at "established" programs and do not show an ability to make chicken salad out of chicken crap quickly...rarely ever succeed.

Look at the last 15 years at the coaches who took over for fired guys....
Saban at LSU...Year 2 10-3 SEC Champs (took over a 3 win team)
Stoops at OU....Year 2 12-0 BCS Champs (took over a team that won 12 games, previous 3 years, had no QB's on roster)
Carroll at USC...Year 2 11-2 #4
Richt at UGA...Year 2 13-1 SEC Champs
Meyer at UF....Year 2 13-1 BCS Champs
Saban at Bama....Year 2 12-0 in SECCG before losing to Tebow and then Utah
Meyer at OSU.....Year 1 12-0
Mahlzan at AU....Year 1...13-1 BCS title game loss.
Jimbo at FSU...Year 1 took a 7-6 team to 10-4 and ACCCG, 12-2 Year 3
Tressell at OSU....Year 2 went 13-0 BCS Champs

Guys like Hoke, Chizik, Weis had success early and still struggled afterward.....so early success is not a guarantee.

But give me the guy who just "met expectations" on the field for 3 years and turned them into a powerhouse?

Mack Brown still won his division and was 27-11 3 years into taking over a Texas team that had 15 straight seasons without a top 10 finish before him.
Butch only lost more than 3 games twice..and had crippling scholarship losses.

I honestly ask....who is the model that we can point to and say AL can be just like him. Who is the 22-15 guy? John Cooper?

 

[TedHendricksOffspring]

I know this is a touchy subject but what do you feel are the benchmarks for next year?

Think we need to win 10 games, win the Coastal, and the defense has to be greatly improved, its year 4 and the 3rd year with his players. We have two true elite playmakers in Coley and Duke, and this will be the most talented defense we have had since 2011(yeah I know, shortest midget......) 9 wins might work if we are al least competitive and improved but 8 wins would be a disaster and would surely make the recruiting class fall apart. It really is put up or shut up for Al, I know he still has that last card of firing Dorito if need be but next year will be the year that ultimately determines his future, even though I realize unless he completely tanks would not get fire.

Everyone keeps saying 3rd year with his players. He has not been able to get "his" players until this year because of the NCAA nonsense. Once again, this time last year we were all still wondering if we would have additional penalties. Now we expect one good class to turn us around. Al Golden is not going anywhere. Give him a chance to build this program.

He has gotten more than enough quality talent for the team to perform better than it has been.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

The problem for me is our classes of 25+ 3, 4, and 5 star talent guys should be better than Duke's classes of 20 2-3 star guys.

It doesn't necessarily work this way. Ask FSU about WF's 2-3 star kids that beat them in 2011. Ask them about the 2-3 star NC State kids that beat them. And the talent discrepancy between FSU and both those teams were greater than ours vs Duke's, if any at all.

That really isn't a valid analogy.....1 or 2 game sample sizes will always produce anomalies....ULM beat Saban and Bama,

The issue is.....Why are our 75 3,4,5* guys producing the worst defense in the ACC against the run over the last 3 years? Not whether we lost to a Duke team having a once in a generation season in a single game. Its the fact that 10 other teams in the ACC with much less "paper talent" are performing much better than our defense every single week.

Ok, so you just shifted the conversation from winning and losing to comparing defenses in the ACC.
My analogy was valid. Sometimes more talented teams lose to less talented teams. And I wouldn't necessarily calls us any more talented than Duke or VT.

As for the defense, it's more 2-3 star kids than 4-5 star kids so let's not stretch the truth here in order to validate your argument. Truth is the defense is full of jags. Half of Dukes defense would start here.

 

[CaneAlmighty]

i would agree with you.. but duke's been developing those guys in the same system for 6+ years... and our class that should be seniors this year... was ranked 36th in that "power ranking" page q did... 36th! that's not good, and that's what we've been leaning on.

Here's the reality....Coaches who get hired at "established" programs and do not show an ability to make chicken salad out of chicken crap quickly...rarely ever succeed.

Look at the last 15 years at the coaches who took over for fired guys....
Saban at LSU...Year 2 10-3 SEC Champs (took over a 3 win team)
Stoops at OU....Year 2 12-0 BCS Champs (took over a team that won 12 games, previous 3 years, had no QB's on roster)
Carroll at USC...Year 2 11-2 #4
Richt at UGA...Year 2 13-1 SEC Champs
Meyer at UF....Year 2 13-1 BCS Champs
Saban at Bama....Year 2 12-0 in SECCG before losing to Tebow and then Utah
Meyer at OSU.....Year 1 12-0
Mahlzan at AU....Year 1...13-1 BCS title game loss.
Jimbo at FSU...Year 1 took a 7-6 team to 10-4 and ACCCG, 12-2 Year 3
Tressell at OSU....Year 2 went 13-0 BCS Champs

Guys like Hoke, Chizik, Weis had success early and still struggled afterward.....so early success is not a guarantee.

But give me the guy who just "met expectations" on the field for 3 years and turned them into a powerhouse?

Mack Brown still won his division and was 27-11 3 years into taking over a Texas team that had 15 straight seasons without a top 10 finish before him.
Butch only lost more than 3 games twice..and had crippling scholarship losses.

I honestly ask....who is the model that we can point to and say AL can be just like him. Who is the 22-15 guy? John Cooper?

A few things wrong with your comparison.. Most of the programs you listed are powerhouse programs with 10x's the resources Miami has..
They also didn't have to deal with a 3 year long bull**** NCAA investigation that hindered their talent grab.

And guys like Meyer took over built programs. Tressell was 1 year removed from when Meyer took over. Spare me the one 6 game season as evidence of them being down. They were far from it.
Jimbo has been at FSU 6 years. He had a hand in recruiting the players he inherited when he took over as full time HC. Quite different than coming in clean inheriting a swiss cheese roster like Golden inherited.
Malzhan was also at Auburn previously. and Auburns recruiting classes were top 10 for 4 straight years prior to this season. Chicken crap my ***.. LOL

 

[MIA42178]

For me, acccg win bowl game top 30 defense and offense

For admin, 6 wins

 

[Tee_louwee_91]

It's simple really....make it to the ACC Championship game and win the bowl game.

 

[monkey1371]

i would agree with you.. but duke's been developing those guys in the same system for 6+ years... and our class that should be seniors this year... was ranked 36th in that "power ranking" page q did... 36th! that's not good, and that's what we've been leaning on.

Here's the reality....Coaches who get hired at "established" programs and do not show an ability to make chicken salad out of chicken crap quickly...rarely ever succeed.

Look at the last 15 years at the coaches who took over for fired guys....
Saban at LSU...Year 2 10-3 SEC Champs (took over a 3 win team)
Stoops at OU....Year 2 12-0 BCS Champs (took over a team that won 12 games, previous 3 years, had no QB's on roster)
Carroll at USC...Year 2 11-2 #4
Richt at UGA...Year 2 13-1 SEC Champs
Meyer at UF....Year 2 13-1 BCS Champs
Saban at Bama....Year 2 12-0 in SECCG before losing to Tebow and then Utah
Meyer at OSU.....Year 1 12-0
Mahlzan at AU....Year 1...13-1 BCS title game loss.
Jimbo at FSU...Year 1 took a 7-6 team to 10-4 and ACCCG, 12-2 Year 3
Tressell at OSU....Year 2 went 13-0 BCS Champs

Guys like Hoke, Chizik, Weis had success early and still struggled afterward.....so early success is not a guarantee.

But give me the guy who just "met expectations" on the field for 3 years and turned them into a powerhouse?

Mack Brown still won his division and was 27-11 3 years into taking over a Texas team that had 15 straight seasons without a top 10 finish before him.
Butch only lost more than 3 games twice..and had crippling scholarship losses.

I honestly ask....who is the model that we can point to and say AL can be just like him. Who is the 22-15 guy? John Cooper?

A few things wrong with your comparison.. Most of the programs you listed are powerhouse programs with 10x's the resources Miami has..
They also didn't have to deal with a 3 year long bull**** NCAA investigation that hindered their talent grab.

And guys like Meyer took over built programs. Tressell was 1 year removed from when Meyer took over. Spare me the one 6 game season as evidence of them being down. They were far from it.
Jimbo has been at FSU 6 years. He had a hand in recruiting the players he inherited when he took over as full time HC. Quite different than coming in clean inheriting a swiss cheese roster like Golden inherited.
Malzhan was also at Auburn previously. and Auburns recruiting classes were top 10 for 4 straight years prior to this season. Chicken crap my ***.. LOL

It really amuses me.....Again you pointed to a few single instances of the numerous examples provided to show why they are not "Apples to Apples" comparisons....but miss the whole point in your response.

1) Every coach I listed took over because the previous guy got FIRED....Yet it is amazing how every single one of them somehow walked into a "Great Situation" with a roster full of "All Americans".....But here AL, Randy came in after a guy who "Really deserved to be fired, Unlike the other 10 examples provide".

That is really funny.

Another few examples...Kelly, Muschamp who won big early at ND, UF as well, but struggled last year....so jury is still out.

2) The boring resource argument... Michigan, Nebraska have more resources than 3/4 of the states in this USA.....but they can't get it right. Texas, UGA, OU, USC same boat but floundered for long stretches of time before just getting THE RIGHT GUY. Resources had nothing to do with it. Stoops, Richt had no previous experience and were gotten on the cheap.

Resources matter for 2 things....Money you can hire a coach and recruiting. Outside of Al's 1st class(#36), which was left in shambles by Randy......Miami has consistently had to 5-15 classes for a decade straight(2013 was #20 only because it had 18 kids, full class moves into top 15 easy).

You can get the right guy on the cheap as OU(Stoops), OSU(Tressel) and UGA(Richt) proved. Malzhan was hired at $2.3 million....less than what we paid Coker. You can spend and get the wrong guy like Rich Rod at Michigan.

3) The "NCAA Investigation Cloud".....I get it....it has hurt recruiting. Year 1, the suspensions actually affected the field.

It is a legitimate "REASON" for some of the struggles.....but does not excuse all of them on the field.

It had no effect for the late departures for this class...right? Is this class better than the previous 2 Al recruited?

I am looking forward to your breakdown of why this class "free of NCAA cloud" is so much better than the previous 2 that were affected?


4) But back to my original point....I gave 10 examples of the success stories, 3 failures and 2 "jury still out" on guys who WON early..

I'm looking for the guys who "did nothing special for 3 years on the field".....Give me those guys?

Give me the guys that were not at least 10 games over .500 after 3 years and succeeded at an already "established" program?
(I will spot you 1...Jim Harbaugh at Stanford)