We keep talking Lb’s

[pacusmc]

Without rj McIntosh and gwillis this defense has disappeared.
just get us one or two dudes that cans do what those guys did and the rest should be easily fixed unless your willing to coo ok tongue to play dudes that can’t play the backer position at a high level.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

Just watched the video. I get it if no one wants to sit through 57 minutes to relive the Clemson game; however, this is a great breakdown of all the problems everyone has pointed out multiple times.

In particular, it shows how bad this scheme truly is the majority of the time

It's not so much the scheme if you have the guys to play in it. You can't run this scheme without having speedy LBs that diagnos plays quickly. I believe we have that in the younger players, but they need more time to develop.

It was really remarkable that Baker and Diaz never adjusted. You bring 8 in the box if that what it takes to stop the run because if you can't stop the run, you can't stop the pass either. Look how many times the LBs and safeties bit on the RPO fakes. That's what we try to do to oue opponents.

Just watched the video. I get it if no one wants to sit through 57 minutes to relive the Clemson game; however, this is a great breakdown of all the problems everyone has pointed out multiple times.

In particular, it shows how bad this scheme truly is the majority of the time

The scheme is not a problem if you have the players to execute it. The defensive scheme requires elite edge rushers, at least 1 dominant DT, and speedy LBs that can diagnose plays quickly. I believe we have that in the younger LBs, but they need time to develop.

The biggest issue yesterday, besides the lack of effort, was that neither Baker or Manny made any adjustments on the defense. Not once outside of goal line did I see them play 8 defenders in the box. You do anything you need to to stop the run because if you can't stop the run, you can't stop their RPO passing game. Our LBs and safeties were basically eliminated from the game. They were always in no man's land which is why the UNC RBs averaged 12 yards before contact. A real failure by Diaz and Baker not making any significant adjustments.

 

[Paranos]

Please look up my posts from the Clemson game showing that BOTH DEs do the same thing. It’s a chuck amato concept called the Jet technique. THEY ARE TOLD TO DO THIS. They do it every game. They did is last year and the year before. It is in attempt to get TFL, which Manny is convinced needs to be achieved at the expense of everything else.

@Cribby

Mickey Andrew's Jet Technique

I have had the privilege these past two seasons to coach using this technique and I thought I would share some of the pros and con's of...

footballislifeblog.blogspot.com

Go Canes

 

[CanadianCane]

It's not so much the scheme if you have the guys to play in it. You can't run this scheme without having speedy LBs that diagnos plays quickly. I believe we have that in the younger players, but they need more time to develop.

It was really remarkable that Baker and Diaz never adjusted. You bring 8 in the box if that what it takes to stop the run because if you can't stop the run, you can't stop the pass either. Look how many times the LBs and safeties bit on the RPO fakes. That's what we try to do to oue opponents.

The scheme is not a problem if you have the players to execute it. The defensive scheme requires elite edge rushers, at least 1 dominant DT, and speedy LBs that can diagnose plays quickly. I believe we have that in the younger LBs, but they need time to develop.

The biggest issue yesterday, besides the lack of effort, was that neither Baker or Manny made any adjustments on the defensive. Not once outside of goaline did I see them play 8 defenders in the box. You do anything you need to to stop the run because if uou can't stop the run, you can't stop their RPO passing game. Our LBs and safeties were basically eliminated from the game. They were always in norman's land which is why the UNC RBs averaged 12 yards before contact. A real failure by Diaz and Baker not making any significant adjustments.

For the most part I agree.

Where I have issue is when you do stupid sh&t like line up the 3-tech on the short side of the field, thus putting the NT/1-tech on the strong side REPEATEDLY and teams feast on it REPEATEDLY. Especially when as the designer of this defense, the former DC and now HC, you insist on running it when you do not have the players to execute it.

The problem is outlined above; The failure by Diaz and Baker to not make any adjustments. Then says in his post game presser

“We will have to put the film on and say for sure before I make any proclamations one way or another. They didn’t run any plays that we hadn’t practiced against or didn’t expect to see. When you are not there—and this was on both sides of the ball, it just materializes on defense in one way and another way on offense—when you are not playing your best, that is what it looks like and especially against a really explosive offensive football team. I will be able to say more next week after I watch the film. Our enthusiasm and energy was lacking everything becomes difficult when that is not there"

Utter nonsense above. You apparently know what they are going to run and allow them to continue to do it without making adjustments??

 

[Cribby]

@Cribby

Mickey Andrew's Jet Technique

I have had the privilege these past two seasons to coach using this technique and I thought I would share some of the pros and con's of...

footballislifeblog.blogspot.com

Go Canes

What’s the point of this?

I’m not sure if this is in reference to setting the edge since I’ve seen multiple people mention it. But I’ve heard manny mention setting the edge or guys not doing it countless times. Patchan playing being one time , he said he sets the edge with the run better than other guys is why he was starting.

 

[scrantoncane]

It's not so much the scheme if you have the guys to play in it. You can't run this scheme without having speedy LBs that diagnos plays quickly. I believe we have that in the younger players, but they need more time to develop.

It was really remarkable that Baker and Diaz never adjusted. You bring 8 in the box if that what it takes to stop the run because if you can't stop the run, you can't stop the pass either. Look how many times the LBs and safeties bit on the RPO fakes. That's what we try to do to oue opponents.

The scheme is not a problem if you have the players to execute it. The defensive scheme requires elite edge rushers, at least 1 dominant DT, and speedy LBs that can diagnose plays quickly. I believe we have that in the younger LBs, but they need time to develop.

The biggest issue yesterday, besides the lack of effort, was that neither Baker or Manny made any adjustments on the defensive. Not once outside of goaline did I see them play 8 defenders in the box. You do anything you need to to stop the run because if uou can't stop the run, you can't stop their RPO passing game. Our LBs and safeties were basically eliminated from the game. They were always in norman's land which is why the UNC RBs averaged 12 yards before contact. A real failure by Diaz and Baker not making any significant adjustments.

Good luck putting 8 in the box against Howell.

 

[Mico Jones]

I said without RJ and Willis it was over for this scheme

Neither one has done shot in the NFL so it goes to show that the scheme made them look better than they actually were too.

It’s all smoke and mirrors

 

[The Franchise]

For the most part I agree.

Where I have issue is when you do stupid sh&t like line up the 3-tech on the short side of the field, thus putting the NT/1-tech on the strong side REPEATEDLY and teams feast on it REPEATEDLY. Especially when as the designer of this defense, the former DC and now HC, you insist on running it when you do not have the players to execute it.

The problem is outlined above; The failure by Diaz and Baker to not make any adjustments. Then says in his post game presser

“We will have to put the film on and say for sure before I make any proclamations one way or another. They didn’t run any plays that we hadn’t practiced against or didn’t expect to see. When you are not there—and this was on both sides of the ball, it just materializes on defense in one way and another way on offense—when you are not playing your best, that is what it looks like and especially against a really explosive offensive football team. I will be able to say more next week after I watch the film. Our enthusiasm and energy was lacking everything becomes difficult when that is not there"

Utter nonsense above. You apparently know what they are going to run and allow them to continue to do it without making adjustments??

You can adjust till you're blue in the face, but if your team doesn't give a fck (and we didn't), then nothing matters. The problem was the week leading up to the game, not the adjustments that are way overrated. Manure is a failure, and the players couldn't give a fck what he says and have zero respect for him.

 

[scrantoncane]

I mean, we didn't even come out to play - wholly unprepared mentally and schematically - but I think part of that mirrors what we also saw on the field.

The "on the field" part all goes back to the original discussions about what Manny would bring here. We would be disruptive against certain teams, but poorly leveraged against other teams.

This conversation is probably similar to the arguments Greg Robinson (@ Texas) had with Diaz. With a completely wildass front, you need magic in the Back 7. And, when you either don't have those players OR the other team is well-suited to exert pressure, you sometimes get bad results (i think last night it goes beyond "bad"). Examples of being well-suited include: having a badass running QB, two pro RBs, and/or a coach who probably sat in on the arguments about the philosophy's weaknesses.

A long time ago, when he came here as DC, I cautiously supported Manny and conceded his wildass fronts would get us more TFLs but also get us gashed at times. There were some posters who hated him and were completely against him. I understood the gripes and hoped we'd improve and he'd evolve. I think we're at the stage where we have to address whether, with this approach, we can consistently win meaningful games. Because this isn't specific to LBs, or Safeties, or even UNC's two pro RBs. If you pop in tape of Javian Haskins earlier this year and specifically look for counter plays (which I'm sure UNC's staff did), you get some flashbacks to last night.

Manny gave us most of the defensive improvement his philosophy was going to give us. Getting better LBs and Safeties will marginally improve that, sure. If we want more, Manny's philosophy, whether through himself or a hire, will have to evolve...again. And, that's the same question many of us asked at the beginning of his tenure. While some people were vehemently against his style, I guess some of us optimistically conceded its holes and hoped he'd add/evolve.

Here we are. Another crossroads.

My question is why can’t he adjust his scheme for certain opponents?

You and I chatted about this before Clemson. I questioned if we were going to let our DEs get upfield, when TLaw was so good at getting the ball out quick and he and Etienne could gash us on the ground.

We saw the Clemson results. UNC’s personnel posed the same concerns, yet no adjustments were made.

Thing is, idk what those adjustments would even be. I think the scheme just doesn’t work. And if we are gonna bring in a new DC to run his own scheme, then I don’t really want Manny as my HC. His evals, recruiting and player development are all suspect. He should be our marketing director or something like that.

 

[scrantoncane]

You can adjust till you're blue in the face, but if your team doesn't give a fck (and we didn't), then nothing matters. The problem was the week leading up to the game, not the adjustments that are way overrated. Manure is a failure, and the players couldn't give a fck what he says and have zero respect for him.

You are ****ed and spewing nonsense. It was absolutely the scheme and lack of adjustments.

We were 8-1 playing for a chance to go to a NY6 bowl. The players went through a whole covid disrupted season and had a chance to make something of it. During the week, you had King talking about foregoing the nfl, and Phillips on Twitter telling everyone to transfer to Miami. The players wanted to win.

We just got out schemed and got our asses handed to us. Yeah, they gave up when it was 21-3, but by that point it was clear we were outclassed.

 

[Southbeach44]

UNC pulled their guards every play. I’ve always been taught to chase the pulling guard, they will lead you to the ball... didn’t see a single DT chase a pulling guard.

I am sure our lbs know that. They probably tried to do that. Problem is this. If you are not 235+ and you don't run 4.5. You can't play lb here and be successful.

Our guys are slow and small. Bad combo.

 

[[]_[]nique]

Yea rushing upfield without prejudice by the DL was annoying yesterday but the angles taken by the LBs and DBs was way worse to me. Instead of meeting a back in the hole like 21 on the other team, our backers instantly over pursued before it was even a thing to pursue. It was terrible. The backers weren’t getting touched, they weren’t taking themselves out of the play.

 

[AUcane]

Yep , we were running right out of every play lol. Like a dog chasing a car , you’re not going up catch it. At some point stop!!!!!

Yet in the second half we did the exact same thing with no adjusting.

i recall several plays watching 53 literally sprint at the snap to some theoretical gap he’s supposed to fill, only to allow huge lanes with an easy cutback. For a true freshman, I can understand, but For a 5th year?!

 

[Number1CanesFan]

Good luck putting 8 in the box against Howell.

It would have stopped the run. I got news for you. There was no safety help on the deep ball completion thrown. At minimum, you have to mix up the scheme. Show 8 in the box on 1st down. Get them out of the running plays. Show 8, drop 3-4. Mix it up. Not the same **** over again that's getting you gashed.

 

[Donsnaps]

You do know the Dl is what keeps them clean right?

The dl has been average , especially inside. We have average dt’s that we overrated as good. Hunte is the only one who looks like a difference maker, but he’s not complete ( yet). Yeah the lb’s suck but a really good dl would keep Ol from eating them alive every play.

Philips and the rest of these guys put up smoke in mirrors stats in this scheme , that’s just facts. There’s no gap integrity or discipline to this scheme. That’s why many call it a “ gimmick”.

Just go look at all the plays we’d had a tfl but Philips and others wanted the sack to pad stats, while running by the ball carrier. Rushing the qb is something you earn when you stop the run. Well....not at Miami.

As I said other day “ I never know how good our dl is from playing in this scheme”. Yesterday was more proof.

Manny needs yo take a long , hard look in the mirror and make some difficult decisions. From his scheme on down. What’s the odds two of the worst run stoking performances I’ve ever seen are so n manny ? BYU and bow

Scheme is all about getting up the field on the DL and they got exposed by a rb counter all game. Manny needs to just hire a real DC

 

[Derrick Griffin]

I am sure our lbs know that. They probably tried to do that. Problem is this. If you are not 235+ and you don't run 4.5. You can't play lb here and be successful.

Our guys are slow and small. Bad combo.

I agree, I. Was speaking to the lack of ability by our interior DL.

 

[The Franchise]

You are ****ed and spewing nonsense. It was absolutely the scheme and lack of adjustments.

We were 8-1 playing for a chance to go to a NY6 bowl. The players went through a whole covid disrupted season and had a chance to make something of it. During the week, you had King talking about foregoing the nfl, and Phillips on Twitter telling everyone to transfer to Miami. The players wanted to win.

We just got out schemed and got our asses handed to us. Yeah, they gave up when it was 21-3, but by that point it was clear we were outclassed.

I am ****ed and spewing facts. Anyone with any football knowledge knows we completely no showed that game. We gave zero effort. When you give zero effort, you get worked by a good team. Same scheme last year, and we were pretty decent against UNC.

LOL at mentioning King and Phillips. Those 2 guys go hard all the time. Unfortunately, everyone else didn't.

 

[Paranos]

What’s the point of this?

I’m not sure if this is in reference to setting the edge since I’ve seen multiple people mention it. But I’ve heard manny mention setting the edge or guys not doing it countless times. Patchan playing being one time , he said he sets the edge with the run better than other guys is why he was starting.

Just sharing.

Go Canes

 

[mdpcane]

Diaz should have kept his *** at Temple .... end of story

 

[ThomasM]

What is a LB? It's been a while since I've seen one.