We keep talking Lb’s

[InCaneiac]

I finally just quit arguing about Nesta being meh. There’s guys on here that overrate dudes and play favorites . Just like pope , he’s another one the same people defend for no reason.

Nesta has one move, the bull rush. If an O-line can neutralize his bull rush, he disappears.

 

[fedupcane]

I've said the exact same thing in several other threads, including a response to DMoney, and did as well throughout the year in gameday threads.

This Dline plays without a cohesive plan, without gap integrity, without proper fundamentals like hand usage and body positioning and care only about their own stats. It looks like half the time they are doing their own thing, picking whichever gap they want to attack and allowing the OL to easily push aside. Back side pursuit is garbage for most as well. I do give Nesta credit for this bc he chases. He has other flaws but he chases.

The coaches don't help though running DT stunts on 1st and 10. I laugh when i see a 300 pounder standing straight up at the snap and looking sideways while the 2 OGs and C open up a hole so big Tom Brady could run through it for 15 yards.

For as great as Phillips can be at times, has 3 incredibly bad habits:
- he ducks inside far too often, sometimes with his head down, easily giving up the edge
- he rushes upfield out of control and runs right past the play when he should be following the down block and splitting the difference between the ball and LOS.
- he rushes upfield and turns his shoulder to take on the lead blocker, completely eliminating himself from the play. whoever taught him that technique should be fired.

How many times does it need to be said they are taught to play DL this way???

The “bad habits” Phillips does are schematic. Do you not understand how plays are called at all?

 

[Cribby]

We have a gimmick defense that is all about causing chaos and letting the dl get up field with no discipline. Yet we don’t have one dl who can do that while playing in this gimmick defense. That tells you everything about the quality of players inside.

 

[Cribby]

How many times does it need to be said they are taught to play DL this way???

The “bad habits” Phillips does are schematic. Do you not understand how plays are called at all?

To be fair not setting the edge all those times was on Philips, he was playing selfish and for more sacks. But you’re right for the most part, this scheme throws discipline out the window for splash / loss plays. Feast or famine.

 

[skyman]

To be fair not setting the edge all those times was on Philips, he was playing selfish and for more sacks. But you’re right for the most part, this scheme throws discipline out the window for splash / loss plays. Feast or famine.

He wasnt playing selfish, he was doing what he is coached to do, all diaz talks about is getting up field and his instincts are set.. UNC just used that against him to perfection, over and over and over and over and over and over.. Its what he is designed and coached to do, might call it selfish but that is the scheme.

 

[PSU Cane]

How many times does it need to be said they are taught to play DL this way???

The “bad habits” Phillips does are schematic. Do you not understand how plays are called at all?

I don't agree. You see little differences in tendency and fundamentals from Kul to Simpson to Stroud.

Yes, the overall scheme does cause further issues with stunts and 1-gap shooting but i'm talking specific individual tendencies. What Phillips does is different than what Garvin did years back and what even Patchan did last year on early downs.

 

[yuhot]

We should of put 5 lineman yesterday

 

[Cribby]

He wasnt playing selfish, he was doing what he is coached to do, all diaz talks about is getting up field and his instincts are set.. UNC just used that against him to perfection, over and over and over and over and over and over.. Its what he is designed and coached to do, might call it selfish but that is the scheme.

We still set the edge dude, that’s why patchan played as much as he did. Yes we don’t play disciplined and we slant a lot but you always set the edge. That’s why Philips blew that play up in the backfield against duke. He set the edge.

 

[1LuvCane]

My boy @Coach Macho been preachin about this wack scheme for a minute. Gimmicky af!!

Work on your references. Career long hs coaches to carry to much clout...

 

[fedupcane]

To be fair not setting the edge all those times was on Philips, he was playing selfish and for more sacks. But you’re right for the most part, this scheme throws discipline out the window for splash / loss plays. Feast or famine.

Please look up my posts from the Clemson game showing that BOTH DEs do the same thing. It’s a chuck amato concept called the Jet technique. THEY ARE TOLD TO DO THIS. They do it every game. They did is last year and the year before. It is in attempt to get TFL, which Manny is convinced needs to be achieved at the expense of everything else.

 

[fedupcane]

I don't agree. You see little differences in tendency and fundamentals from Kul to Simpson to Stroud.

Yes, the overall scheme does cause further issues with stunts and 1-gap shooting but i'm talking specific individual tendencies. What Phillips does is different than what Garvin did years back and what even Patchan did last year on early downs.

Then why does the DE opposite of Phillips do the same thing on every play?

 

[TexasCane90]

The game reminded me of the WF game where they went with the wide splits and absolutely destroyed Doritos mind on how to counter it

lmfao NC allowed our own defense to get itself out of the way and simply ran the EXACT SAME TWO PLAYS over and over until we stopped it..... spoiler we never did

 

[Derrick Griffin]

UNC pulled their guards every play. I’ve always been taught to chase the pulling guard, they will lead you to the ball... didn’t see a single DT chase a pulling guard.

 

[UMinati]

Holding our D line is in every opponent’s game plan... seriously.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

The problem is obviously at the top , “the administration”. The majority of this board lost their **** when he was hired ( myself included). That’s why I stay away from killing manny or the dc. I go after Blake and people above him.

But fact is manny is here and obviously won’t be fired even though everything says there’s problems. From scheme , lack of of game changers ( recruiting ) , players quitting , no discipline and obviously no respect for the coach. Just go back to Hill last year , dude walked away from manny mid sentence while he was “ disciplining “ him.

The scheme is more a representation of the coach , who’s a representation of Blake James who’s a representation of who hired him.

We’re here because there’s no leadership in the program , they just like that acc tv money.

So yeah , scheme is more a symptom.


What?

Unc’s ol was on the second level with our dl nowhere to be found. I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

Let me spell it out for you. You have 5 offensive linemen and 1 TE. That's 6 guys across the offensive line. You have 2 DTs and 2 DE. We don't play a scheme where our DTs take on 2 blockers that you're trying to make the case that the DL didn't do. We DON'T play that type of scheme. So, it's 6 vs 4 leaving 2 UNC blockers to get to the 2nd level to block the LBs. Our LBs started the game sitting back slowly diagnosing the plays and getting blocked. Herbstreit pointed it out. Go back and watch the 1st quarter. The adjustment the LBs made was the same as what they did against Clemson. When the ball was hiked, they just ran to a spot where they guessed the play was going which is absolutely pathetic. Good LBs diagnose the plays quickly where the Offensive lineman can't even get to them. That's how we're designed. The guys that are starting are not capable of playing in our scheme. They're too slow at diagnosing plays and lack speed for the position. You can't be slow at diagnosing plays and slow of foot. That's the problem.

Do you remember how Clemson and Virginia LBs were diagnosing the plays, shooting the gaps, and making tackles in the backfield? That's how the position is supposed to be played. Shaq and Pinkney did that.

We're designed to play upfield and make tackles for loss. We get around or thru the blocks. We don't stay engaged with the offensive linemen. Our DEs were a problem as well. We don't play a scheme where our DEs hold the edge and react. Because of our style of playing upfield and the backside DE crashing down, it left gaps on the edge that our LBs couldn't get to. So we were getting gashed on the outside and inside. We couldn't stop anything.

Our starting LBs are the weakest link that caused the dominos to fall. The biggest domino was when the team quit.

 

[Cribby]

I don't agree. You see little differences in tendency and fundamentals from Kul to Simpson to Stroud.

Yes, the overall scheme does cause further issues with stunts and 1-gap shooting but i'm talking specific individual tendencies. What Phillips does is different than what Garvin did years back and what even Patchan did last year on early downs.

Bingo

 

[Cajuncane]

but wait KrazyKane said Nesta was the best DT in the country?

Hence the Krazy part...

 

[Cribby]

Let me spell it out for you. You have 5 offensive linemen and 1 TE. That's 6 guys across the offensive line. You have 2 DTs and 2 DE. We don't play a scheme where our DTs take on 2 blockers that you're trying to make the case that the DL didn't do. We DON'T play that type of scheme. So, it's 6 vs 4 leaving 2 UNC blockers to get to the 2nd level to block the LBs. Our LBs started the game sitting back slowly diagnosing the plays and getting blocked. Herbstreit pointed it out. Go back and watch the 1st quarter. The adjustment the LBs made was the same as what they did against Clemson. When the ball was hiked, they just ran to a spot where they guessed the play was going which is absolutely pathetic. Good LBs diagnose the plays quickly where the Offensive lineman can't even get to them. That's how we're designed. The guys that are starting are not capable of playing in our scheme. That's the problem.

Do you remember how Clemson and Virginia LBs were diagnosing the plays, shooting the gaps, and making tackles in the backfield? That's how the position is supposed to be played. Shaq and Pinkney did that.

Our LBs are the weakest link that caused the dominos to fall. The biggest domino was when the team quit.

Shaq and Pink also had our best dl’s three of their four years. Ironic they took a step back last year , why’s that? Everyone kept asking why they didn’t have better years? Well the position is alot easier when you have Norton , McIntosh and Willis inside causing chaos. Go compare those dl’s stats to these guys lol.

Our defense was at its best not because of lb’s, but when we had dl shooting gaps and blowing plays up in the middle. Our dl is mediocre at best , shaq and Pink would be ****ed behind this group.

 

[LuCane]

I mean, we didn't even come out to play - wholly unprepared mentally and schematically - but I think part of that mirrors what we also saw on the field.

The "on the field" part all goes back to the original discussions about what Manny would bring here. We would be disruptive against certain teams, but poorly leveraged against other teams.

This conversation is probably similar to the arguments Greg Robinson (@ Texas) had with Diaz. With a completely wildass front, you need magic in the Back 7. And, when you either don't have those players OR the other team is well-suited to exert pressure, you sometimes get bad results (i think last night it goes beyond "bad"). Examples of being well-suited include: having a badass running QB, two pro RBs, and/or a coach who probably sat in on the arguments about the philosophy's weaknesses.

A long time ago, when he came here as DC, I cautiously supported Manny and conceded his wildass fronts would get us more TFLs but also get us gashed at times. There were some posters who hated him and were completely against him. I understood the gripes and hoped we'd improve and he'd evolve. I think we're at the stage where we have to address whether, with this approach, we can consistently win meaningful games. Because this isn't specific to LBs, or Safeties, or even UNC's two pro RBs. If you pop in tape of Javian Haskins earlier this year and specifically look for counter plays (which I'm sure UNC's staff did), you get some flashbacks to last night.

Manny gave us most of the defensive improvement his philosophy was going to give us. Getting better LBs and Safeties will marginally improve that, sure. If we want more, Manny's philosophy, whether through himself or a hire, will have to evolve...again. And, that's the same question many of us asked at the beginning of his tenure. While some people were vehemently against his style, I guess some of us optimistically conceded its holes and hoped he'd add/evolve.

Here we are. Another crossroads.

 

[miamimike305]

What’s demoralizing is watching our DLine have no discipline. If you see that the Oline is letting you go where you are going you gotta engage that Oline. That Oline had the easiest night. Mack Brown basically told them let them go past you and push them out the way than engage the linebackers.