We keep talking Lb’s

[fedupcane]

I mean, we didn't even come out to play - wholly unprepared mentally and schematically - but I think part of that mirrors what we also saw on the field.

The "on the field" part all goes back to the original discussions about what Manny would bring here. We would be disruptive against certain teams, but poorly leveraged against other teams.

This conversation is probably similar to the arguments Greg Robinson (@ Texas) had with Diaz. With a completely wildass front, you need magic in the Back 7. And, when you either don't have those players OR the other team is well-suited to exert pressure, you sometimes get bad results (i think last night it goes beyond "bad"). Examples of being well-suited include: having a badass running QB, two pro RBs, and/or a coach who probably sat in on the arguments about the philosophy's weaknesses.

A long time ago, when he came here as DC, I cautiously supported Manny and conceded his wildass fronts would get us more TFLs but also get us gashed at times. There were some posters who hated him and were completely against him. I understood the gripes and hoped we'd improve and he'd evolve. I think we're at the stage where we have to address whether, with this approach, we can consistently win meaningful games. Because this isn't specific to LBs, or Safeties, or even UNC's two pro RBs. If you pop in tape of Javian Haskins earlier this year and specifically look for counter plays (which I'm sure UNC's staff did), you get some flashbacks to last night.

Manny gave us most of the defensive improvement his philosophy was going to give us. Getting better LBs and Safeties will marginally improve that, sure. If we want more, Manny's philosophy, whether through himself or a hire, will have to evolve...again. And, that's the same question many of us asked at the beginning of his tenure. While some people were vehemently against his style, I guess some of us optimistically conceded its holes and hoped he'd add/evolve.

Here we are. Another crossroads.

Standing ovation for this post!

The very thing that makes this defense look good against hapless teams is what crushes it against the LSUs, Wisconsins (2x), Clemsons (2x), UNCs, etc etc.

 

[miamimike305]

UNC pulled their guards every play. I’ve always been taught to chase the pulling guard, they will lead you to the ball... didn’t see a single DT chase a pulling guard.

Either that or just go down the line if you can’t get behind the back of the pulling guard. Don’t just run up field and take yourself completely out of the play.

 

[fedupcane]

What’s demoralizing is watching our DLine have no discipline. If you see that the Oline is letting you go where you are going you gotta engage that Oline. That Oline had the easiest night. Mack Brown basically told them let them go past you and push them out the way than engage the linebackers.

This happens in literally every game. Most teams don’t have the talent to make us pay for it. Clemson and UNC do and you see the result.

 

[Cribby]

I mean, we didn't even come out to play - wholly unprepared mentally and schematically - but I think part of that mirrors what we also saw on the field.

The "on the field" part all goes back to the original discussions about what Manny would bring here. We would be disruptive against certain teams, but poorly leveraged against other teams.

This conversation is probably similar to the arguments Greg Robinson (@ Texas) had with Diaz. With a completely wildass front, you need magic in the Back 7. And, when you either don't have those players OR the other team is well-suited to exert pressure, you sometimes get bad results (i think last night it goes beyond "bad"). Examples of being well-suited include: having a badass running QB, two pro RBs, and/or a coach who probably sat in on the arguments about the philosophy's weaknesses.

A long time ago, when he came here as DC, I cautiously supported Manny and conceded his wildass fronts would get us more TFLs but also get us gashed at times. There were some posters who hated him and were completely against him. I understood the gripes and hoped we'd improve and he'd evolve. I think we're at the stage where we have to address whether, with this approach, we can consistently win meaningful games. Because this isn't specific to LBs, or Safeties, or even UNC's two pro RBs. If you pop in tape of Javian Haskins earlier this year and specifically look for counter plays (which I'm sure UNC's staff did), you get some flashbacks to last night.

Manny gave us most of the defensive improvement his philosophy was going to give us. Getting better LBs and Safeties will marginally improve that, sure. If we want more, Manny's philosophy, whether through himself or a hire, will have to evolve...again. And, that's the same question many of us asked at the beginning of his tenure. While some people were vehemently against his style, I guess some of us optimistically conceded its holes and hoped he'd add/evolve.

Here we are. Another crossroads.

Kinda like the defense version of chip kelly. You either evolve over time or you’re fired. Chip hasn’t evolved his scheme , which is funny because he’s the og of all these offenses.

 

[miamimike305]

This happens in literally every game. Most teams don’t have the talent to make us pay for it. Clemson and UNC do and you see the result.

This game should’ve been the one where you engage the Oline and look at the backfield. See where the play is going. Don’t let the Oline seal you off the running lane.

 

[Cribby]

This happens in literally every game. Most teams don’t have the talent to make us pay for it. Clemson and UNC do and you see the result.

Anyone with a pulse normally will. Hence the problem. Anyone physical , patient and having pretty good players will expose this. Luckily we play a **** schedule or it would be exposed more.

Its time to evolve

 

[Cribby]

This game should’ve been the one where you engage the Oline and look at the backfield. See where the play is going. Don’t let the Oline seal you off the running lane.

Yep , we were running right out of every play lol. Like a dog chasing a car , you’re not going up catch it. At some point stop!!!!!

Yet in the second half we did the exact same thing with no adjusting.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

Shaq and Pink also had our best dl’s three of their four years. Ironic they took a step back last year , why’s that? Everyone kept asking why they didn’t have better years? Well the position is alot easier when you have Norton , McIntosh and Willis inside using chaos. Go compare those dl’s stats to these guys lol.

Our defense was at its best not because of lb’s, but when we had dl shooting gaps and blowing plays up in the middle. Our dl is mediocre at best , shaq and Pink would be ****ed behind this group.

I just explained to you that the we don't take on double teams with our defensive linemen. If you can show me where the UNC linemen blocked our linemen then released to the 2nd level to get another block on our LBs, then you have a case. I didn't see that happening.

We see the same LB play every week. Shaq and Pink are in the league. They're not there because the defensive line play was superior.

Watch the game again. I watched a film breakdown of the Clemson game from a YouTuber. It was pathetic how the LBs played. I expect this one to be even worse. The film don't lie.

 

[LuCane]

The game reminded me of the WF game where they went with the wide splits and absolutely destroyed Doritos mind on how to counter it

lmfao NC allowed our own defense to get itself out of the way and simply ran the EXACT SAME TWO PLAYS over and over until we stopped it..... spoiler we never did

That's actually a good analogy. And, if you add that UNC had the firepower to make an advantage look worse, you get a defensive performance for the record books.

 

[BoxingRobes]

The whole middle of the defense is average at best and very very slow. DT, LB, S some mid by its very definition.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

Shaq and Pink also had our best dl’s three of their four years. Ironic they took a step back last year , why’s that? Everyone kept asking why they didn’t have better years? Well the position is alot easier when you have Norton , McIntosh and Willis inside causing chaos. Go compare those dl’s stats to these guys lol.

Our defense was at its best not because of lb’s, but when we had dl shooting gaps and blowing plays up in the middle. Our dl is mediocre at best , shaq and Pink would be ****ed behind this group.

The reason why they had it easier earlier in their career is because we had at least 1 elite DT that demanded a double team, but it's not our scheme to take on 2 blockers. The offenses made a business decision to double team RJ McIntosh and Gerald Willis.

 

[OldhamA]

So I've been on the train of 'Diaz's system is flawed, but works at this level, it just needs the athletes.

Last night was my coming to Jesus moment. The exact point was (I think) during the 3rd Q when Flagg read the play beautifully and filled the hole the RB was going to. Only literally nobody else in the Front 7 filled a hole (it looked like 15 Primary school kids [Kindergarten] at mid-morning break [recess] running around), so the RB just sidestepped Flagg and broke it to the outside.

When a fundamentally sound LB does his job and is left throwing his arms up in the air because not a single teammate is doing their job (at least in terms of the basics of American Football) then you know you're ****ed.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Nesta is the fakest tough guy going. He stinks.

He got trex arms and he just bullrushes

 

[Dwinstitles]

I said without RJ and Willis it was over for this scheme

 

[yeyo]

Yep , we were running right out of every play lol. Like a dog chasing a car , you’re not going up catch it. At some point stop!!!!!

Yet in the second half we did the exact same thing with no adjusting.

A coaching failure and it should be a fireable offense.

 

[BoxingRobes]

@Cribby we still passing on a 5-star linebacker that plays high school football 10 minutes down the road from campus?

 

[NC_Canes_11]

Holding our D line is in every opponent’s game plan... seriously.

LOL If they would’ve called a couple holds, we would’ve lost 50-26. There is no excuse for what happened yesterday.

 

[Cane passion]

You do know the Dl is what keeps them clean right?

The dl has been average , especially inside. We have average dt’s that we overrated as good. Hunte is the only one who looks like a difference maker, but he’s not complete ( yet). Yeah the lb’s suck but a really good dl would keep Ol from eating them alive every play.

Philips and the rest of these guys put up smoke in mirrors stats in this scheme , that’s just facts. There’s no gap integrity or discipline to this scheme. That’s why many call it a “ gimmick”.

Just go look at all the plays we’d had a tfl but Philips and others wanted the sack to pad stats, while running by the ball carrier. Rushing the qb is something you earn when you stop the run. Well....not at Miami.

As I said other day “ I never know how good our dl is from playing in this scheme”. Yesterday was more proof.

Manny needs yo take a long , hard look in the mirror and make some difficult decisions. From his scheme on down. What’s the odds two of the worst run stoking performances I’ve ever seen are so n manny ? BYU and bow

How can you keep the offensive linemen off the backers if we are always stunting and slanting them.

 

[Cribby]

@Cribby we still passing on a 5-star linebacker that plays high school football 10 minutes down the road from campus?

He’s a take , if he doesn’t come we just missed.

 

[Cribby]

How can you keep the offensive linemen off the backers if we are always stunting and slanting them.

By not having jags at dt. The scheme flourished when we had pretty good players inside. But players are only some of the problem , the scheme is played out. It weds adjustments or a lot better players.