I knew I wasnt going crazy. I knew someone said this incident happened and saw it with their own eyes.
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Tirek Austin-Cave up to 233
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franchiseboi
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Ties to the gradual decline of his defense. Shaq, Pink, RJ, Kendrick, Willis, Chad, MJack, Jaquan, Sheldrick, Joe Jackson, Trent Harris, Dee Delaney etc. In hindsight those initial 2-3 years had some very talented guys on defense who have hung around the league for a while, and the defense performed well for the most part.
It became a mess when those guys gave way to the Gurvan Hall, Bradley Jennings, Flagg, DJ Ivey, Jon Ford, Deandre Johnson, Jordan Millers etc.
Brotha man..I was Flaggs biggest defender. Check the history. I defended him week after week. But the kid is just limited. We honestly would have to have Cortez Kennedy and Russell Maryland at DT like in 1989 for him to do what you are saying he can do. Maybe JHH and LT can be that for us. But I dont know.
But can you at least agree that there were games where it did look like he just wasnt up to snuff. Nobody is perfect. But we need an upgrade at the MLB spot. He can be a solid backup. There is a place on this team for guys like Mike Smith who was a VERY solid MLB backup his Sr year. Just isnt a starter. Flagg has role in the rotation. I believe that. Just not as a starter.
OrangeBowlMagic
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AKA recruiting. Correct.
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Canezum5
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How can you hate Manny and also hate the players he put in a bad position? You can't have both.
We saw this same **** with Donofrio. Then Manny took those same players and made them look a little better. Then yall had to eat crow.
This weirdo questioned why Flagg was starting when he's clearly our best tackler and most instinctive linebacker. Like who tf gonna start over him?
If not forced to do **** he ain't good at Then yall wouldn't even be dogging Flagg like that. But rest assure he will be starting come fall and imma make yall eat some major crow too.
We saw this same **** with Donofrio. Then Manny took those same players and made them look a little better. Then yall had to eat crow.
This weirdo questioned why Flagg was starting when he's clearly our best tackler and most instinctive linebacker. Like who tf gonna start over him?
If not forced to do **** he ain't good at Then yall wouldn't even be dogging Flagg like that. But rest assure he will be starting come fall and imma make yall eat some major crow too.
franchiseboi
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Which leads to a thought I try to never say aloud in fear i'll be committed: Al Golden was sneaky good evaluator of those mid-3 star, low-4 star players on defense. He just had no idea how to use them
Canezum5
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Yea.. those games Manny got too cute doing his tired *** DE/DT STUNTS leaving Flagg in a position he should never be in.
Can't show me a game where the Dline played assignment football and Flagg just got abused all game within the tackle box.
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He's suffering Mannyitis.... Curable but it takes some time...
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WestGA'Cane
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Agree, to a certain extent the the talent did diminish. Development too, in part, including fundamentals.
** I think too that Manny's D is comparable to Paul Johnson's O. After a few years the league caught on.
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Bad coaches and bad players are not mutually exclusive. Flagg got torched because of his lack of speed and also made multiple bad reads last season. It’s not like we don’t have a comparable, just look at Shaq’s performance under the same DC. Night an day.
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We need a portal MLB desperately. It’s a bigger hole than any other including RT and CB. I’d rather have Ivey or Blades at CB than either Flagg or Cave at MLB.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Cave has all the potential in the world. But there’s a reason he saw virtually zero snaps last year and it can’t all be Manny’s stupidity or favoritism. Even Chase started to see the field more and more as the season went on. Cave not so much.
Hope for the best with Cave but plan for the worst with a quality transfer in.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Cave has all the potential in the world. But there’s a reason he saw virtually zero snaps last year and it can’t all be Manny’s stupidity or favoritism. Even Chase started to see the field more and more as the season went on. Cave not so much.
Hope for the best with Cave but plan for the worst with a quality transfer in.
Maybe your right, but are you saying we should scheme our defense around Flagg because he has limitations?
Any competent OC and playcaller (we got one on Sept 20th in Jimbo Fisher) is going to look at Flagg and not go right at him but run circles around him and make him prove hes an athlete. Which hes not. If he has to go sideline to sideline or chase a running QB or chase wheel routes because Chase and Keontra are preoccupied with covering the TE seam or slot WR.... we are screwed.
I am hoping you are right about him. He will have every chance to prove you are right. Because ill be willing to bet even Gattis will test him in Spring. Test him big time.
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He really isn't. He ran a 4.78 at the Miami pro day which is right about average for an NFL ILB.
Perryman is limited in coverage which isn't really a speed issue per se as much as it's an agility/foot quickness issue. He is not agile or bendy etc -- he is great in a straight line running downhill. I think anyone who watched both of them knows that Perryman is much faster than Flagg and hits with more authority. I think if you just took the first 10 yards of the 40 from the both of them it wouldn't be very close at all. I don't think anyone needs to show film to understand that one guy is was quicker to the ball and hit with more authority when they got there.
Perryman had 6.5 TFL his sophomore season in a scheme where no one on the team was ever making plays behind the line. He would've routinely been putting up 14+ TFL seasons in Manny's scheme, which is completely geared towards TFL, the way that Shaq and Pinckney were. Flagg put up 7.0 last year.
it's also worth pointing out that Perryman was a second round pick. Shaq was a fourth round pick. I'm not a Flagg hater honestly but I dunno how you could watch those three guys play football, purely from an athleticism perspective, and think that Flagg could be taken anywhere near that high in the draft.
Perryman had 6.5 TFL his sophomore season in a scheme where no one on the team was ever making plays behind the line. He would've routinely been putting up 14+ TFL seasons in Manny's scheme, which is completely geared towards TFL, the way that Shaq and Pinckney were. Flagg put up 7.0 last year.
it's also worth pointing out that Perryman was a second round pick. Shaq was a fourth round pick. I'm not a Flagg hater honestly but I dunno how you could watch those three guys play football, purely from an athleticism perspective, and think that Flagg could be taken anywhere near that high in the draft.
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if you're talking about the LB's specifically, i agree. it might have been the most undercoached position group on the team. safeties probably next.
although on the other side of the ball, i do like what likens and lashlee did with WR's and QB.
but on defense, you're right. Simpson was mostly solid, but everyone else had some issues. for all the hype around T-Rob, his guys were not always clicking on all cylinders
True, but that may not be saying much.
Manny's grades:
Coaching: C-
Recruiting: D+
Its Mannys room and he got very unlucky, evaluated poorly and didnt know how to operate in life after Shaq and Pinck left. So I have no issue saying this is his fault.
I also have no problem saying that when Flagg was on TV in HS..alot of posters were very impressed with him at LB. So lets not all be fake either. We can pull up the thread in the Recruiting Board as proof. Flagg had like 20 tackles in that game. But he did have alot of room to roam and had a stout DL in front of him to protect him.
As far as TAC, its been said, he will have his chance. May the best man win especially if Mikel Jones gets onboard.
I also have no problem saying that when Flagg was on TV in HS..alot of posters were very impressed with him at LB. So lets not all be fake either. We can pull up the thread in the Recruiting Board as proof. Flagg had like 20 tackles in that game. But he did have alot of room to roam and had a stout DL in front of him to protect him.
As far as TAC, its been said, he will have his chance. May the best man win especially if Mikel Jones gets onboard.
look, I don't think it's very hard to understand why Flagg would play more than TAC at this point in their careers. and I don't think you need any coach speak about assignments and trust to explain why.
Flagg played at a school that finished No. 4 in the entire nation per MaxPreps his senior year there. he saw a lot of meaningful snaps against the highest level of competition in Texas, and given the way Texas high school football is played, probably saw more snaps in total than all but a handful of LBs in that year's class across the country. TAC by comparison played for a school that finished ranked outside the top 30 in NJ alone. TAC put up real stats for that team but the level of competition (and, in all likelihood, level of coaching) was not really comparable.
now, TAC was a higher rated recruit than Flagg because the ceiling given his speed/athleticism is much higher, and the fact that Flagg was playing at the highest level of football in Texas and not being recruited by any major programs should have given Manny pause, a point that people on this board were making at the time. but it only takes a basic understanding of context and the concept of one player being better presently but maxed out in terms of potential vs a guy having more potential but being a step behind in the present to understand why Flagg would be playing earlier compared to TAC.
also, in terms of throwing TAC out there to get reps and improve, I agree 100% with everyone saying that. but keep in mind that Manny was desperately trying to keep his job, and so his entire focus was winning the next week's game. whether TAC was getting enough reps to be better in the middle of the 2022 season was probably not at the top of his priority list. and, btw, when you get in that situation with a coach, you probably need to fire him, and I'm glad we did.
Flagg played at a school that finished No. 4 in the entire nation per MaxPreps his senior year there. he saw a lot of meaningful snaps against the highest level of competition in Texas, and given the way Texas high school football is played, probably saw more snaps in total than all but a handful of LBs in that year's class across the country. TAC by comparison played for a school that finished ranked outside the top 30 in NJ alone. TAC put up real stats for that team but the level of competition (and, in all likelihood, level of coaching) was not really comparable.
now, TAC was a higher rated recruit than Flagg because the ceiling given his speed/athleticism is much higher, and the fact that Flagg was playing at the highest level of football in Texas and not being recruited by any major programs should have given Manny pause, a point that people on this board were making at the time. but it only takes a basic understanding of context and the concept of one player being better presently but maxed out in terms of potential vs a guy having more potential but being a step behind in the present to understand why Flagg would be playing earlier compared to TAC.
also, in terms of throwing TAC out there to get reps and improve, I agree 100% with everyone saying that. but keep in mind that Manny was desperately trying to keep his job, and so his entire focus was winning the next week's game. whether TAC was getting enough reps to be better in the middle of the 2022 season was probably not at the top of his priority list. and, btw, when you get in that situation with a coach, you probably need to fire him, and I'm glad we did.
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