This reminds me of Coker in 2006

Usually, the talent isn’t that good if a coach is being fired. That’s nothing out of the ordinary.

I am a bit skeptical of Miami’s ability to rebuild after a long down period. For all people like to talk about USC before Carroll or Alabama before Saban, those are programs with a lot more football tradition than Miami.
This is not an easy rebuild at all. The expectations are high and atmosphere impatient and turns sour fast. @franchise noted how quickly things can turn in the social media era.

The current generation of kids grew up with Um sucking, and we’ve become a joke of a program. We need a coach who can both evaluate and sell well, and scheme and teach well. Very hard to find.
 
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Dude you are a homer. If you want to believe that a coach making 3k per year and a staff of volunteers develops players better than an HC, OC, and DC that make $350k then I won't change your mind.

Your argument is that South Florida players come into college unprepared to play. You have no evidence to support that because you are wrong. South Florida kids play early, everywhere, at every level.

I've given you examples of South Florida high schools beating big-name Georgia teams because it happens every year. You respond that those teams aren't state champs.

When was the last time a Florida state champ played a Georgia state champ? Was it Central beating Stephenson on the road in 2014? What about Booker T going to Norcross and destroying them 55-0? We can do this all day.
 
There is nothing wrong with so fla kids. Andrew was leaning in on our lack of coaching and S&C deficiencies by arguing our local kids need teaching and S&C more than local kids in some other areas. Maybe, maybe not. Doesn’t really matter. Every other major program out there is fishing for kids in our back yard. Our local WRs do just fine at Alabama, and early in their careers. It’s not a RB issue. Our DBs do fine. LB and DL and OL are positions that take some development. The bigger issue for us is we’ve underrecruited and undercoached the posititions for ages, and have lost so many guys early that we almost never have proper depth and maturity at these spots. You cannot win in CFB with that. Without Willis back for a 5th year, this year could have been a true disaster.

Exactly, I am not arguing that SFLA kids are overrated or undeserving, just that they are underdeveloped and further from their ceiling. A lot of fans have always suggested that we can win with good coaches because of the talent but the evidence points to us needing great coaches.

Skill is not equal to talent it is instead (talent * development). The kids of SFLA have high ceilings because that were not developed as well as other kids. In fact, this fits DMoney's opinion that SFLA players are underrated why our UDFA make rosters.
 
The kids of SFLA have high ceilings because that were not developed as well as other kids.

They are further from their ceilings (particularly in terms of S&C), which makes them better prospects.

But they are also more ready to play because they have played a more competitive level of football since age 6. That's why their high school teams are better and why they play early at colleges across the country.
 
Your argument is that South Florida players come into college unprepared to play. You have no evidence to support that because you are wrong. South Florida kids play early, everywhere, at every level.

I've given you examples of South Florida high schools beating big-name Georgia teams because it happens every year. You respond that those teams aren't state champs.

When was the last time a Florida state champ played a Georgia state champ? Was it Central beating Stephenson on the road in 2014? What about Booker T going to Norcross and destroying them 55-0? We can do this all day.

Stepheson lost in the second round in 2014. The actually lost to 3 mediocre GA teams that year.

Could be the Grayson team that beat Central 35 - 3. Too bad Grayson lost in the second round that year and Central won the state championship.
 
This is not an easy rebuild at all. The expectations are high and atmosphere impatient and turns sour fast. @franchise noted how quickly things can turn in the social media era.

The current generation of kids grew up with Um sucking, and we’ve become a joke of a program. We need a coach who can both evaluate and sell well, and scheme and teach well. Very hard to find.

We've been irrelevant for too long. As a program without the institutional support and resources of the big money programs, we could not afford to fail this badly and for this long.

We have too much ground to make up now. It would be no small miracle if we became relevant again any time soon.
 
They are further from their ceilings (particularly in terms of S&C), which makes them better prospects.

But they are also more ready to play because they have played a more competitive level of football since age 6. That's why their high school teams are better and why they play early at colleges across the country.

You can have whatever opinion you want on who is better but football is pretty comparable across the south. Top players tend to play on top tends in any state. Kids from SFLA are competitive, but so are kids in Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Mississippi, California, and New Jersey. I just happen to think those kids were better coached during their high school years.

If you don't think high school coaching matters then I probably won't change your opinion.
 
At what age do they start


Milton seemed to have no issue blowing out Cardinal Gibbons. Not sure what the FL/GA Showcase is.

That varies but there are 2 and 3 year old programs that I have seen before. I’d say the majority start by 4 or 5 years of age though. I personally don’t think they should start until they show interest but not all parents feel that way.
 
You can have whatever opinion you want on who is better but football is pretty comparable across the south.

It's not my opinion. It's the facts.

The NFL data speaks for itself. The gap keeps getting larger, both statewide and in the cities. You take shots at South Florida players all the time because of a Georgia inferiority complex. I can only respond with the numbers.

Georgia's flagship program has not won a championship since 1980. Florida teams have won 11 titles since then. It’s 12 if you count UCF.

Our problem is college coaching. We have hired three guys who had no career after they got fired from Miami. The market confirmed they are bums. Compare that to Will Muschamp, who failed at Florida and bounced back with an SEC job. Richt is the first quality coach we hired and he is on the decline. If he fails here, he's done.

It's very simple. Our saving grace is that we are located in football heaven. But that won't matter without a coach.
 
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It's not my opinion. It's the facts.

The NFL data speaks for itself. The gap keeps getting larger, both statewide and in the cities. You take shots at South Florida players all the time because of a Georgia inferiority complex. I can only respond with the numbers.

Georgia's flagship program has not won a championship since 1980. Florida teams have won 11 titles since then. 12 if you count UCF, of course.

Our problem is college coaching. We have hired three guys who had no career after they got fired from Miami. The market confirmed they are bums. Compare that to Will Muschamp, who failed at Florida and bounced back with an SEC job. Richt is the first quality coach we hired and he is on the decline. If he fails here, he's done.

It's very simple. Our saving grace is that we are located in football heaven. But that won't matter without a coach.
2 points,

First, as to your discussion with Andrew, you are both making good points but not engaging each other effectively. His argument is not refuted by your data. There are other obvious reasons why your data and his argument can coexist fine, talent being the simplest one and you both agree on it. The simple question he is posing is whether Hs coaching matters, and if so, whether So Fla kids get the same degree of coaching as top kids in other areas. The obvious response is yes, it matters, and ‘some do, sone don’t’ in So Fla. Enough said.

Second, you keep trying to contend our shortcomings are as simple as bad coaching hires. I think you are confusing symptom and disease to an extent. Yes, we have hired awful coaches. Richt included. (You should ask why we did so.) but we do not have the resources or culture or institutional or booster or fan support to compete with top programs. Frankly, the U doesn’t give a ****. It wants a football program that is above average and doesn’t embarrass it. Unfortunately, it’s seeking a unicorn in that regard, given its history and location and community interest in the sport.

The outflow of top tallent from So Fla has gone from the exception to the rule. People talk about FSU plucking guys forever, but we would get most of who we wanted. We get almost none of our top priorities any longer. In our own dang backyard.

Seriously, what responsible parent would send his son to play football at the U if he could choose to go to a better program instead? He’ll get better coaching and S&C training elsewhere, more better coeds to bed, better facilities, dorms, locker rooms, rec rooms, etc., better competition on the roster to make him better, better gameday atmosphere, and if he makes a mistake, he’ll have a better chance that it’s dealt with effectively and he isn’t tossed to the curb. At the U, he’ll get hyped by a bunch of old guys who remember watching Bernie Kosar play college football.

All you need to know about our program at this point is that first rounders choose to return to Clemson for their senior years, while 7th rounders choose to gtfo of UM before their senior years. The message is clear from our local Hs kids and our college players. Our program is a mess.
 
It's not my opinion. It's the facts.

The NFL data speaks for itself. The gap keeps getting larger, both statewide and in the cities. You take shots at South Florida players all the time because of a Georgia inferiority complex. I can only respond with the numbers.

Georgia's flagship program has not won a championship since 1980. Florida teams have won 11 titles since then. It’s 12 if you count UCF.

Our problem is college coaching. We have hired three guys who had no career after they got fired from Miami. The market confirmed they are bums. Compare that to Will Muschamp, who failed at Florida and bounced back with an SEC job. Richt is the first quality coach we hired and he is on the decline. If he fails here, he's done.

It's very simple. Our saving grace is that we are located in football heaven. But that won't matter without a coach.

We haven't won a title since 2001 and before then it was 1991. We can't lean on that anymore. Regardless we aren't winning a championship again. On the bright side, a coaching fire and search is good for traffic. We will be doing this every 4 or 5 years.
 
We haven't won a title since 2001 and before then it was 1991. We can't lean on that anymore. Regardless we aren't winning a championship again. On the bright side, a coaching fire and search is good for traffic. We will be doing this every 4 or 5 years.
We are close to one title in 30 years, and guys are still banging their chests about Da U. If butch davis coached UGA, he could have assembled a title team there, also. Georgia produces plenty of talent. We don’t get credit because their AD stuck with Richt so long. It’s a bitter irony that we signed up to eat their discarded **** and call it dinner.
 
We are close to one title in 30 years, and guys are still banging their chests about Da U. If butch davis coached UGA, he could have assembled a title team there, also. Georgia produces plenty of talent. We don’t get credit because their AD stuck with Richt so long. It’s a bitter irony that we signed up to eat their discarded **** and call it dinner.

Yeah, I am not trying to make the point on which state produces the most talented players, that is clearly Florida. I don't think it matters as much because good college programs are going to get good players. UGA recruits SFLA, but they also recruit GA, SC, AL, and other states. I don't think SFLA players are less competitive, less physical or less talented. I just think as a whole the coaching is better in every other state in the south. I think if you follow the coaching salaries you get to this opinion as well. It also worth mentioning that a coach at a big-time college like Miami should be able to develop raw talent, that is what they are paid to do. If Rush Propst coached in SFLA, whoever he coached would never lose. It wasn't a surprise to many to see Simpson appointed to AHC just 2 years removed from being an HS coach.
 
Yeah, I am not trying to make the point on which state produces the most talented players, that is clearly Florida. I don't think it matters as much because good college programs are going to get good players. UGA recruits SFLA, but they also recruit GA, SC, AL, and other states. I don't think SFLA players are less competitive, less physical or less talented. I just think as a whole the coaching is better in every other state in the south. I think if you follow the coaching salaries you get to this opinion as well. It also worth mentioning that a coach at a big-time college like Miami should be able to develop raw talent, that is what they are paid to do. If Rush Propst coached in SFLA, whoever he coached would never lose. It wasn't a surprise to many to see Simpson appointed to AHC just 2 years removed from being an HS coach.
That is a non-sequiter. Simpson getting promoted to AHC at UM is a testament to the awfulness of Richt's staff and the stubbornness of Richt. No major program would have made a guy 2 years out of HS AHC, so it doesn’t really tell us anything other than about UM, not UGA or so fla HS.
 
Brw., re Hs, Florida is slightly over 2x the population of Georgia, and 1.7x the number of nfl players. So by those numbers, Georgia outperforms Florida. The truth is probably that overall population statistics are misleading because Florida is long on retirees, who shouldn’t count. But Georgia has 123 nfl players and is fourth overall behind FL, CA and TX. It’s got plenty of talent to be a title competitor every year, and it doesn’t have two other major instate programs to fight with for that talent.
 
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That is a non-sequiter. Simpson getting promoted to AHC at UM is a testament to the awfulness of Richt's staff and the stubbornness of Richt. No major program would have made a guy 2 years out of HS AHC, so it doesn’t really tell us anything other than about UM, not UGA or so fla HS.

That’s fair, but Simpson was still the coach selected among the current staff. Simpson was also hired by the falcons right out of HS.
 
Brw., re Hs, Florida is slightly over 2x the population of Georgia, and 1.7x the number of nfl players. So by those numbers, Georgia outperforms Florida. The truth is probably that overall population statistics are misleading because Florida is long on retirees, who shouldn’t count. But Georgia has 123 nfl players and is fourth overall behind FL, CA and TX. It’s got plenty of talent to be a title competitor every year, and it doesn’t have two other major instate programs to fight with for that talent.

Clemson and FSU are pretty close to the GA border. UGA fans longed complained about FSU pulling talent out of SGA.
 
Miami’s job is not attractive. That is a real issue. It’s drama, lack of institutional support and unrealistic expectations. And the roster is thin, especially on the LOS, so you can't just win with the fomer guy’s talent.
It would be a very attractive job to the right type of candidates. We need to get more realistic about the program. Stop with the retreads and the pie-in-the-sky guys like Chris Peterson and Gary Patterson and focus on the young hungry OC who aspires to be an NFL HC one day.
 
That's the thing, you HAVE to fire him after three years. The honeymoon period is over, we've been embarrassed on a national stage three times in less than a year. Recruits are leaving in droves.

He's done. Everyone can see that - it needs the people in power to buy their way out of this mistake.
This is exactly why UM is shot. We are too paralyzed by public perception. It rules every decision we make and constantly has us behind the 8 ball trying to play catch up.

Instead of seeing the obvious problem and fixing it swiftly, we wait around until the obvious failures do irreparable harm. We are not ruthless enough to be a national power, so we might as well just accept who we are. We are UVA/GT/BC.
 
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