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This reminds me of Coker in 2006

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Butch was hungry and Richt was washed up. I think Richt doesn't do a **** thing and challenges the school to fire him. James gave him the golden ticket.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Second, you keep trying to contend our shortcomings are as simple as bad coaching hires.
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It is that simple. Alabama hired four failed coaches between Stallings and Saban. They were under .500 for that decade. Did they stop caring about football?

Think of all the misfires Texas and Texas A&M have made over the past forty years. Do they not care about football in Texas?

Hiring coaches is a crapshoot. We had a really hot streak followed by a cold streak. All four coaches were different and failed for different reasons. We had two presidents and four ADs over this period, so it wasn’t one bad decision maker.

The consistent trend, which I noted in the OP, is that we aren’t hiring innovators. That is the lesson for me.
 
DMoney said:
It is that simple. Alabama hired four failed coaches between Stallings and Saban. They were under .500 for that decade. Did they stop caring about football?

Think of all the misfires Texas and Texas A&M have made over the past forty years. Do they not care about football in Texas?

Hiring coaches is a crapshoot. We had a really hot streak followed by a cold streak. All four coaches were different and failed for different reasons. We had two presidents and four ADs over this period, so it wasn’t one bad decision maker.

The consistent trend, which I noted in the OP, is that we aren’t hiring innovators. That is the lesson for me.
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I generally agree but Alabama hired Saban and he is clearly on a different level. Miami was pretty lucky to get guys like Schnelly, Jimmy, Dennis, and Butch consecutively. I doubt we will ever be that lucky, we need to hire a $6m coach or else we are rolling dice.
 
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DMoney said:
It is that simple. Alabama hired four failed coaches between Stallings and Saban. They were under .500 for that decade. Did they stop caring about football?

Think of all the misfires Texas and Texas A&M have made over the past forty years. Do they not care about football in Texas?

Hiring coaches is a crapshoot. We had a really hot streak followed by a cold streak. All four coaches were different and failed for different reasons. We had two presidents and four ADs over this period, so it wasn’t one bad decision maker.

The consistent trend, which I noted in the OP, is that we aren’t hiring innovators. That is the lesson for me.
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I disagree. You are missing a lot in your assessment. You are refusing to acknowledge a lot of our program deficiencies and are looking for comforting analogies elsewhere to simplify the problem.

First, we didn’t just hire four bad coaches. We hired four clearly incompetent idiots, for the wrong reasons. Coker had never been a hc before, wasn’t therefore a ‘ceo’ theory guy, wasn’t dynamic, wasn’t schematically innovative, wasn’t a good recruiter, wasn’t a good talent assessor. He was just there. And Ed Reed. Whatever. Dumb decision. Shannon was a triple down on stupidity. No real search. Classic example of the administration delusionally believing that anyone with shoes and a hat can win big at UM. No rationale to that hire at all. Gluten was a terrible fit, culturally, schematically, brought nothing to the table, wasn’t a proven ceo, wasn’t an innovative schematic guy, and didn’t want to be in Miami anyhow. He was another idiotic hire. And then Richt, who had proven he couldn’t succeed, proven he wasn’t capable of being his own OC, proven he couldn’t be a ceo because he had to be forced to hire an OC at UGA, wasn’t schmatically innovative, wasn’t a dynamic kind of person, and had been fired by a program with far greater resources than we have. And he frickin told us he wanted to be his own OC, which meant he told us he was invested in pursuing something he clearly wasn’t capable of being good at, and which would undermine the things we need a HC to do. But he went to the U, so Bo Schembechler or something like that. This wasn’t bad luck. This was getting what we deserved. We didn’t try to hire talented coaches. We delusionally hired incompetents because we were not remotely serious about winning and did not assess our program or needs even modestly accurately. The hiring decisions our AD has made are not unfortunate. They’re grossly negligent.

Second, you keep overlooking resources and commitment to winning, and what goes with it. It’s not worth cont8nuing to debate it. We can just disagree.
 
Tetragrammaton Cane said:
Those stats are misleading.

Nearly as many boys play football in Georgia as in Florida so the greater population of retirees doesn’t give a fair comparison.
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This is not true...

Here are some stats from the NCAA.

Top 3 states:
Florida 9.9%
Georgia 8.6%
Louisiana 8.1%

edit: to clarify these stats on a percent of high school football players recruited by D1 schools. Since Florida produces more D1 athletes then they have to have a larger pool since the percentages are within a half of a percent. I do expect the participation rate is probably higher in GA but if anything this dilutes the percent of GA players being recruited by D1 schools.

 
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this is the biggest indictment of the Richtanic - it has people debating the talent/merit of South Florida players...

Again, more scapegoating and excuse making for an out-of-touch, out-dated, overmatched coach
 
Completely different coker wouldnt neeed to hire a bunch of yes men, ny biggest concern was when coach kool left he was the only adequate hire richt made and he bolted fast the only person on staff who wasnt a yes man
 
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DMoney said:
It is that simple. Alabama hired four failed coaches between Stallings and Saban. They were under .500 for that decade. Did they stop caring about football?

Think of all the misfires Texas and Texas A&M have made over the past forty years. Do they not care about football in Texas?

Hiring coaches is a crapshoot. We had a really hot streak followed by a cold streak. All four coaches were different and failed for different reasons. We had two presidents and four ADs over this period, so it wasn’t one bad decision maker.

The consistent trend, which I noted in the OP, is that we aren’t hiring innovators. That is the lesson for me.
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You hit the nail on the head.
 
The Franchise said:
It would be a very attractive job to the right type of candidates. We need to get more realistic about the program. Stop with the retreads and the pie-in-the-sky guys like Chris Peterson and Gary Patterson and focus on the young hungry OC who aspires to be an NFL HC one day.
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Wouldn't hiring the type of HC you describe put us right back in the same situation after a few years when said coach bolts for the NFL? If said HC is successful, it could make the U HC job more attractive. But what are the chances of finding another? Temple comes to mind. Gary Patterson has been fairly successful and has been at the same place for 18 years.

The "standard" seems to be stability with a proven HC that only has aspirations to win NC's at the college level; ie Sabag and Dablo. Although Sabag tried his hand in the NFL and was arguably a bust.
 
Tetragrammaton Cane said:
You’ve made some really good points in this thread … but you do realize that the point you are now making doesn’t address my post. I wasn’t talking about “recruited players” (or even blue-chippers) I was talking about the number of players. At 9.9 of a number 2x GA, FL would have more than 2x as many players on the college level and we both know we don’t.

Again, GA has near7as many HS football players as FL.
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The percent is based on the population of players. Florida produces more D1 players with a similar percentage of success. This is only possible if they have more players overall.

Was actually able to find the numbers
http://www.nfhs.org/ParticipationStatics/ParticipationStatics.aspx/

Florida has 26% more football players.
 
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DMoney said:
Muschamp got four years. McElwain clashed with the administration which is why he got the early boot.



We can fantasize about that but it's not realistic. Four years is the realistic number.
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So he's a dead man walking next season? That would kill recruiting and if we're talking about 4 mill for 1 year's salary, with a known endpoint, you might as well just move on now for the good of the program...and i'm talking about both parties.
 
Miami should always hire a coach with NFL aspirations. Kids from sfl want to be in the league, and a “NFL guy” is perfect for it.
 
The university of Miami isn’t a destination job it’s a stepping stone to the NFL for players & coaches.
 
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MirabalCane said:
Butch was hungry and Richt was washed up. I think Richt doesn't do a **** thing and challenges the school to fire him. James gave him the golden ticket.
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Richt reminds me of freeloading Grandpa Joe who laid in bed for years.
 
Our talent was good enough this year to field the 2nd best defense in the ACC. I don't know why we shouldn't be able to recruit talent good enough to field the 2nd best offense. And imagine if UM had been able to field the 2nd raked offense to go along with our 2nd ranked defense.

While I acknowledge our defense wasn't as good as their national ranking would indicate, it was still a very good defense...one we could build upon and recruit to. The obvious failure was with the offense. That's what killed us in 2018, and will continue to kill us in 2019 and with recruiting. We have nothing to build upon with the offense and we have nothing to sell recruits on that side of the ball. And the failure on offense has now overtaken the entire program because if you only have half a football team, you have no football team ... as our on-field performance has proven.

Consider if we had an ACC 2nd ranked offense this season to go along with our ACC 2nd ranked defense? We'd be in a drastically different place right now and we'd be having very different conversations. And again, if we can field talent good enough for the 2nd ranked ACC defense, why shouldn't we be able to do it on offense? Syracuse had the ACC 2nd ranked offense. What if we had that offense this year? And does Syracuse's offense contain a talent level beyond the aspirations of UM? I don't think so.

So to me it comes down to coaching moreso than talent. And we had good enough coaching on the defensive side, so it's really a matter of coaching on the offensive side of the ball. Why shouldn't UM have been able to field an offense as good as Syracuse's offense? No reason outside of coaching. We should certainly be able to put as much offensive talent on the filed as Syracuse.

Under Golden we had a decent offense. Unfortunately we had the worst DC in UM history, and consequently we historically sucked on that side of the ball, which brought down the entire team. And now we have a really good defense, but we suck on the offensive side of the ball, which has brought down the entire team. So in terms of resurrecting the program, it would seem that a good first step would be to avoid any more historically bad coordinators so we no longer suck on one side of the ball. That alone would do wonders for the program.

Right now a very achievable near-term goal would be to field an offense and defense better than every ACC program besides Clemson (and maybe FSU depending on how things with that program play out). Simply fielding the 2nd/3rd best ACC offense and defense in the same season would do wonders for our program. With both the 2nd/3rd best ACC offense and defense we'd be a top 20 team, the current stench of death surrounding the program would dissipate, we'd be able to recruit, and we'd have something to build upon in order to take the next step toward top-5/10 team goals.

No matter what anyone thinks of SoFl talent and the current state of SoFl recruiting we still should possess better talent than any ACC team other than Clemson and possibly FSU. And so with a talent advantage, the only way our offense or defense should perform worse than NC, NC State, GT, Pitt, Cuse, etc. is if we have worse coordinators/coaches than those teams. And unfortunately that's been the case. D'Onofrio was the worst DC in the ACC. And now with Mark Richt we have the worst OC in the ACC. It's not even like we've had average coordinators. We've had atrocious coordinators. That's what needs to be fixed.
 
Wisconsin bowl shows us cmrs isn't changing anything on offense.same qb situation can't run can't pass can't punt.only sure thing was our defense now that's gone.spring practice will be stagnant and this team will be lucky to have a .500 season next year.choice is do something now or be like those who like to wait and see later.
 
DMoney said:
That's how this feels. Same age (58), same record. We have an offensive coach with a boring, ineffective offense. Our only hope is hiring an OC to do the coach's job for him. We are trying to make Richt a CEO, even though his big-picture judgment this year would get him fired by any board. The defense is good but overworked and flawed. The quarterback play is the worst it's been since Kyle and Kirby.

It's been twelve years since Coker got fired and we are in the same place. This sucks.

The reality is you can't fire Richt after three years. No AD in America would do that. I think there's enough pressure on him that he will hire an OC. But the question is: will he be bold, or will he make a "safe" choice that really changes nothing? History would suggest the latter.

Whatever he does, this needs to be the year. And if we don't make that leap into the Top 10, we need to move on and rethink our approach. Coker, Shannon, Golden and Richt all had one thing in common: they weren't innovators. They were supposed "CEOs" who believed in winning with simple schemes and better athletes. The past sixteen years have proven that won't work here. This is a program built on innovation. We need to get back to that.

Miami is a more attractive place than it was in 2006. We have a great stadium and modern facilities. Guys like Leach and Mullen were begging for the job. Someone like Dino Babers would kill for this opportunity. We saw in 2017 how quickly momentum can shift for the better. But we're getting old. And this season looked way too familiar.
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Good leadership @D Money
 
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