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Scratch everything we thought: New mock draft for the Fins

DMoney said:
He had ups and downs with a terrible offense around him. The evaluation is incomplete. We need to improve the talent on that side of the ball.
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If year 2 he’s a bust what QBs will be there in the draft. This QB draft class is pretty good as a collective. Not should what 2022 will be like. Sam Howell??
 
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Sigma_Cane_7 said:
So you believe in Tua? I think we all felt to trade down but man Tua looks putrid. Fitzmagic can’t save you every week.
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We had a worse record with Fitz starting. He's like a microwave combo guard. The more he plays, the worse he looks.

The jury is out on Tua, but it's not like he had a Josh Rosen or Dwayne Haskins rookie year. He was 65%, 11/5 TD/INT ratio and a 6-3 record. I want to see what he looks like with a real offense around him. And if he's not the guy, the trade-down will give us an extra 2022 first rounder to play with.
 
DMoney said:
He had ups and downs with a terrible offense around him. The evaluation is incomplete. We need to improve the talent on that side of the ball.
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I just dont see it...and having the #3 pick is a gift. Tua is a west coast QB in a spread offense world. He would have been fine in the 90s. Modern QBs need to be able to see the entire field and he is basically a 1 or 2 read QB.

Gailey and the lack of talent on offense didn’t do him any favors but it also revealed his limitations. His arm strength is average at best. He is listed at 6’0 and is a below average athlete (the narrative about him being dual threat is a fallacy). He doesn’t read through progressions.

The only skills that I would rate at above average to good are his accuracy and his ability to operate RPO. The problem? He needs everything perfect in order to show his accuracy as his footwork is poor. He is alarmingly limited in his ability to make off schedule and off balance throws. And his height limits his ability to work the short middle which then limits the ability to call RPOs.

The Dolphins quit yesterday because they had seen Tua go out the first few possessions and look the same way he has in games and in practice. These guys gave everything they had this year and had to sit there with no hope because they didn’t even have the potential for being saved on offense by Fitzpatrick.

I will be shocked if Miami doesn’t move on. There would really be no explanation for keeping Tua as starter when it was beyond clear he was not their best option at QB. They wanted to see what he had-sink or swim. He sank.

And as much as I am a Fitz fan, for the almighty Tua to be unable to outplay him by the end of his rookie yr...regardless of COVID and the lack of practice, says all that needs to be said. He is another QB bust but Miami has an ace in the hole by way of the #3 pick. If QBs go 1 and 2, take whomever is remaining of Fields/Wilson. Unless they fall in love with Lance but he looks like a project.
 
Love all this spend the first 5 picks on offense to give Tua a chance talk. As if emptying your load like that wouldn’t help and prop up 99% of the QBs in the league. The reality is that a top 5 pick is supposed to achieve the inverse of that — prop up a team on his own.

Miami can move off Tua and bring talent to the offense all in this one draft. Tua was nothing more than the product of defined reads always getting open at Alabama. That fans didn’t see that is understandable, but the fact that scouts or front offices didn’t see that is absurd.
 
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NateDogg said:
I just dont see it...and having the #3 pick is a gift. Tua is a west coast QB in a spread offense world. He would have been fine in the 90s. Modern QBs need to be able to see the entire field and he is basically a 1 or 2 read QB.

Gailey and the lack of talent on offense didn’t do him any favors but it also revealed his limitations. His arm strength is average at best. He is listed at 6’0 and is a below average athlete (the narrative about him being dual threat is a fallacy). He doesn’t read through progressions.

The only skills that I would rate at above average to good are his accuracy and his ability to operate RPO. The problem? He needs everything perfect in order to show his accuracy as his footwork is poor. He is alarmingly limited in his ability to make off schedule and off balance throws. And his height limits his ability to work the short middle which then limits the ability to call RPOs.

The Dolphins quit yesterday because they had seen Tua go out the first few possessions and look the same way he has in games and in practice. These guys gave everything they had this year and had to sit there with no hope because they didn’t even have the potential for being saved on offense by Fitzpatrick.

I will be shocked if Miami doesn’t move on. There would really be no explanation for keeping Tua as starter when it was beyond clear he was not their best option at QB. They wanted to see what he had-sink or swim. He sank.

And as much as I am a Fitz fan, for the almighty Tua to be unable to outplay him by the end of his rookie yr...regardless of COVID and the lack of practice, says all that needs to be said. He is another QB bust but Miami has an ace in the hole by way of the #3 pick. If QBs go 1 and 2, take whomever is remaining of Fields/Wilson. Unless they fall in love with Lance but he looks like a project.
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I said this in another thread, but I always viewed his traits on the spectrum of Drew Brees and Baker Mayfield. He has quick feet, a quick mind and a quick arm. But he is not going to overwhelm you with physicality. Those guys started making explosive plays once they got explosive players around them.

streetja said:
Love all this spend the first 5 picks on offense to give Tua a chance talk. As if emptying your load like that wouldn’t help and prop up 99% of the QBs in the league.
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All the more reason to do it. If Tua is not the guy, you'll have an extra first next year to get your QB.
 
DMoney said:
I said this in another thread, but I always viewed his traits on the spectrum of Drew Brees and Baker Mayfield. He has quick feet, a quick mind and a quick arm. But he is not going to overwhelm you with physicality. Those guys started making explosive plays once they got explosive players around them.


All the more reason to do it. If Tua is not the guy, you'll have an extra first next year to get your QB.
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If you’re the browns would you have stuck with Baker Mayfield when you could get Justin Fields or Zach Wilson the next year from 1 out of your 5 picks in the first 3 rounds?

Why so desperate to stick with mediocrity (best case scenario) at QB?
 
streetja said:
If you’re the browns would you have stuck with Baker Mayfield when you could get Justin Fields or Zach Wilson the next year from 1 out of your 5 picks in the first 3 rounds?

Why so desperate to stick with mediocrity (best case scenario) at QB?
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I don't know if he's mediocre or not. I know even less about Fields and Wilson.

I do know for sure we need to improve our offensive talent. Trade down, draft a bunch of good players and keep yourself flexible going forward.
 
DMoney said:
Trade down. We are in a perfect spot to swap with a QB-hungry team.

Dolphins have the worst offensive personnel in the league after the Jets. This team started three rookie OL and that was the least of their problems.
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We’ve drafted just three wide receivers in the first or second round since 1997 (Chambers in 01, Landry in 14, Parker in 15). We’ve drafted one running back in the first or second round since 2005 (Daniel Thomas).

Miami has overrdrafted for two decades on offensive linemen and defensive linemen. As a franchise, they have placed minimal value on skill position players over the last 15 years. Those that were good (Landry, Miller), were allowed to leave. I can go on and on about the catastrophic drafting that led to two decades of futility (spending a second round draft choice on a QB five out of six years, spending a first round draft choice on a running back three out of four years), but hopefully they’ll use this draft and go heavy on WR and take a RB as well.
 
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DMoney said:
I said this in another thread, but I always viewed his traits on the spectrum of Drew Brees and Baker Mayfield. He has quick feet, a quick mind and a quick arm. But he is not going to overwhelm you with physicality. Those guys started making explosive plays once they got explosive players around them.


All the more reason to do it. If Tua is not the guy, you'll have an extra first next year to get your QB.
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Next year’s class is being headlined by Sam Howell. Looks absolutely putrid. The more I rewatch Tua’s film, the more I’m convinced we should move on and I’ve been a Tua defender all season. Before the draft, I did not want him because of his injury history. But I wasn’t high on Herbert either (though higher than Tua). I did not expect him to be this good.

I think his hip is affecting him more than we think. And he absolutely struggles to read NFL defenses. I’m now clearly seeing that Tua is holding back the playcalling and not the other way around like most have said all season.

My opinion is this. A franchise QB should work with what he has and elevate what he has. If you need to put all of these conditions and what ifs for him to become good, he’s not it.

I’m just now looking at Fields and Wilson because I never thought moving on from Tua would have been a conversation.
 
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DMoney said:
I don't know if he's mediocre or not. I know even less about Fields and Wilson.

I do know for sure we need to improve our offensive talent. Trade down, draft a bunch of good players and keep yourself flexible going forward.
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Even if you can place a potential franchise OT to protect him?
 
JeddTheFisch said:
We have a #3 pick and I'd trade it plus another for #1 and draft Big Trev. Seriously, there is no reason not to try to get better at the position.
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Your gunna need to come off that #3..likely another 1st rd also..idk if I’d do that. Cause if I’m at that number 1 spot I’m taxing heavy on any offers for sunshine. If I was Miami I wouldn’t be so quick to give up on Tua who is on a rookie deal. Id invest in my secondary and offensive line. Get some speed at WR and into year 2 of Tua
 
GojiraCane said:
Trade Tua and both first rounders to Jacksonville, draft Trevor Lawrence.
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Live look at Jacksonville after that’s bs offer

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Sigma_Cane_7 said:
So you believe in Tua? I think we all felt to trade down but man Tua looks putrid. Fitzmagic can’t save you every week.
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He shouldn’t have put in that position this year. Y’all all types off *** on the LOS and the skill spots. I would not come off Tua yet at all. If y’all mortgage your future for Trevor then your looking at a Matt stafford/ Watson situation. Good QBs in terrible situations. All franchise QBs who worked out and won had competent pieces surrounding them early..there’s no way to justify making that move. U keep Tua under that rookie deal and build your roster
 
I didn't think Tua was the guy when he was still in college. He never had to worry because he hada stellar supporting cast. But if we can't trade for Trevor, then we have get him a stellar supporting cast. I like Najee Harris and I like Davonta Smith as options.

Or...grab Trey Lance and trade Tua for a few picks.
 
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y'all are crazy for punting on Tua already.

The Dolphins started 3 rookies on the OL and have a bunch of replacement level slop littered throughout the skill positions.

Even if you stay at 3, taking Sewell or a WR like Chase or Smith is a nice, ridiculous piece to add to the offense. But, D$ is probably right, that #3 pick in a QB market like this would probably net you a bit of a haul, too.
 
305to954 said:
Your gunna need to come off that #3..likely another 1st rd also..idk if I’d do that. Cause if I’m at that number 1 spot I’m taxing heavy on any offers for sunshine. If I was Miami I wouldn’t be so quick to give up on Tua who is on a rookie deal. Id invest in my secondary and offensive line. Get some speed at WR and into year 2 of Tua
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Of course. I don't know if I can stomach letting go of multiple 1rd picks. We can get better at virtually every other position. I'm going to be grappling with this all offseason.
 
DMoney said:
I don't know if he's mediocre or not. I know even less about Fields and Wilson.

I do know for sure we need to improve our offensive talent. Trade down, draft a bunch of good players and keep yourself flexible going forward.
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I mean, with 5 picks in the first 3 rounds you're almost reaching a point of diminishing returns by continuing to trade down. Most of the value added in a trade down would be for later drafts. Miami can significantly improve the offense in this draft by leaving their picks untouched.

I was never high on Tua but I agreed the Dolphins should've taken him at 5 last year. The egg on our faces would've been too bitter to handle if somehow the media was correct about him. But in the back of my mind I considered it a win-win because of exactly the situation we find ourselves in -- test Tua and if the flaws about him are correct (average arm, inability to move off first read, poor pocket presence, tendency to force the ball) you can move off him knowing the likelihood of having a high draft pick this year (either by having a poor season or packaging ours and the Texans picks).

It wouldn't surprise me if this the FO's thinking as well. This is not your typical mortgaging the future/eggs in one basket type scenario that would set a franchise way back if they decided to move off their #1 draft pick. Miami can afford to do it with no sweat off their backs.

If Fields or Wilson grade higher than Tua you don't hesitate.
 
It’s incredible to watch the knee jerk reactions to Tua on here.

Sunday at morning 1:00 it’s all Gailey’s fault snd you’re a ****** if you don’t see Tua as the second coming. Sunday at 4 o’clock it’s time to move on.

Lmao.
 
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