Potential Defense Depth Chart: 3-4 (Glenn Schumann and others)

[Ericsoncane]

We don’t have the horses for a 3-4 if that’s our base alignment in 90% of 1st and 2nd downs. Not enough talent and speed at Lber and much better served using what speed we do have on the D line in a 4-3. I don’t see one guy we have at end with enough speed and strength to consistently do what needs to be done. IMO LT is the only guy who could make it work.

There’s a reason Bama and UGA make it look great. They have the guys. And plenty of them. I’m all for it when we have the right personnel though.

If you watch Alabama or Georgia they're rarely in a 3-4 defense. They run 4-25 or 3-3-5 more than a 3-4. It's more of a multiple defense than anything. A few years ago I saw an article that said Alabama ran a 3-4 on 20% of their plays.

 

[Maskoff407]

Thomas Davis plays DE bro…

Thomas Davis is barely 6’0 230’s. He was a DE for Manny. But I guarantee you he’s not for any other staff.

 

[Zbrod95]

Thomas Davis is barely 6’0 230’s. He was a DE for Manny. But I guarantee you he’s not for any other staff.

I know. That’s why I put him at on the edge in a 3-4…

 

[Invalid Username]

Ah, the good ole CIS coaches who know more than an actual defensive coach…how I’ve missed you! Doritos really messed with peoples heads about the 3-4 lol

 

[sstcane]

I’m not sure you should use Al golden as a reference for how to run a good defense…

There is a bunch of literature out there about why the classic 3-4 is not a good defense for most to run. ( and bama and Georgia run a very “classic” 3-4, not a 3-3-5 one gap) The guys you need to run it are in short supply. The NT, the big fast strong ILB… and now you are asking guys like jafari Harvey to drop into coverage….

We have Zero NTs and Zero LBs that are a good fit for the 3-4.

There absolutely is a talent deficiency on the front 7 of the defense, but the talent you do have LT, Hunte, cam Williams, jafari, are much more suited for a 4-3…

The current defense is 3 or 4 players on the whole defense( DE, 2x LB and a CB) away from being good enough.

But in a 3-4, only LT, maybe hunte at an end fit the defense

Someone attached a good article regarding the way that Kirby and Schumann have changed up their D.

Using smaller/faster DL and LB. Use their ends in 4i technique which covers up the backers and allows them to flow to the ball. LT amd JHH would fit the bill. Georgia has had backers 6’0-6’1 220-230 back there, not like Alabama from 5-10 years ago. Even the NT was 305. They had Davis this year, but had smaller guys before him.

 

[dukemv]

The problem at DL is our attrition has been spectacular, and not in a good way. Cam, Quentin, Holley, Blissette, etc. Manny patched it up with makeshift projects that somehow panned out like injury prone Jaelan Phillips, Roche, Johnson, and McCloud.

But now the chickens are coming home to roost. Four defensive ends and none has truly proven himself (do we know if Davis or Ishmael can even play a snap at the Division 1 level?). Two portal kids and Kelly and Stewart are must haves, biggest need on the team right now.

Defensive tackle is in a slightly better spot, we have two talented guys to start and two experienced guys to back them up. We need to find two more contributors from Haye or the portal or an instant impact freshman to give us a legit three deep.

Linebacker is actually better off than DE, which is crazy. We have experienced backups like Steed, Flagg and Brooks, one known starter in Keontra, and two who can blow up in Chase and Cave. Still time for guys like Huff, Troutman, and Johnson to contribute.

said it last year, a lot of talent in LB & striker room that has been criminally underutilized. Honestly would like to see Davis at LB and Roberts stay at DE.

 

[dukemv]

Y'all always get caught up in this 4-3 versus 3-4 versus 4-2-5 ****.

ANY MODERN DEFENSE RUNS SOME VARIATION OF ALL!
You have to be multiple.

Even if a team considers themself a 3-4 defense, ultimately offensive personnel will dictate who they put out there. If the opponents offense utilizes a lot of 10 personnel (spread), you're most likely not going to see a true 3-4 defense. You'll see a 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 look.

Furthermore, stop getting caught up in the position names. A 3-4 Outside Linebacker is not really a traditional Linebacker. He's basically a DE. So take Sam Brooks out of that spot. He ain't never setting the edge versus OT's and TE's. He's way too small.

When converting a 4-3 to a 3-4...
Basic rule of thumb is...
Light DE's move to Outside Linebacker
Light DT's move to Defensive End
Heavy 1-tech DT's move to Nose Tackle.

The amount of versatility that a 3-4 provides cannot be duplicated by any other scheme. It can easily adapt to any front you want by a simple slide one way or another.

Call "3-4 Under"
The DL slides one technique to the strong side.
The OLB walks down on the LOS.
Now you're in a 4-3.

Seems like personnel caters to 3-3-5 more than 3-4. Harvey could maybe fit that 3-4 OLB role, but idk who else. Maybe Chase. What scheme do you think best fits personnel rn?

 

[supacane]

The people who claim we needed to give Diaz more time need two good slaps. Compare the front 7 Diaz inherited in 2016 to this one, its night and day and that one wasnt even all world. Mad pass rushers were here even though No D was using them wrong. Only position we are fine at is Safety, every other position lacks depth and more importantly,impact players, bar young Taylor.

Good thing about all this is you can change it quickly with the portal. Also some players have potential with better coaching and strength and conditioning. And also more demands on them and accountability. Guys like Jahfari and Chantz are good tools to work with.

 

[WestEndZone]

I’m not sure how I feel about this. It’s intellectually stimulating, but idk if we’re ready for something like this quite yet. Though, personnel-wise, it seems like it’s just a 43 under with a dude standing up. I just hope we don’t suck at everything since our front would probably need to learn a few more techniques.

That being said, if we can pull off a multiple system like this, then I love it.

 

[WestEndZone]

re: body types "we don't want heavy guys"

In this video, Kirby give a TON of credit to Todd Orlando, who served as Mario's DC at FIU. Back when I was still coaching HC ball, they hosted a clinic for us and they really impressed.

One of the DC candidates, Schumann talks at the end. Seems sharp.

**Admits that they don't get enough sacks and TFLs**

 

[DTP]

Then again, this is more a 3-3-5 or 3-2-6 personnel. This team isn't built to run the 3-4. I need the best 11 guys on the field, regardless of position.

Just like nobody runs a 4-3 with 3 true linebackers anymore, nobody runs a 3-4 in the classic sense either. 4-3 has become a 4-2-5 with a linebacker/safety hybrid. 3-4 has become a 3-3-5 with a LB/DL hybrid and a S/LB hybrid.

 

[Damiencane86]

Seems like personnel caters to 3-3-5 more than 3-4. Harvey could maybe fit that 3-4 OLB role, but idk who else. Maybe Chase. What scheme do you think best fits personnel rn?

I think our current personnel definitely favors 3-3-5 vs 3-4 right now.
As a sample 3-3-5 depth chart:
1st team DL: Chantz, LT, JHH
2nd team DL: Harvey, Miller, Roberts
1st team LB: Chase, portal MLB, TAC
2nd team LB: Bissainthe, Flagg, Brooks/Johnson
1st team corners: Rique (please God stay), Blades, Couch
2nd team corners: Dunson, Graves, Clarke
1st team safeties: J Will, Kam, Avantae
2nd team safeties: Balom, Washington, Williams

 

[Canesfan1899]

Wow thanks a great article

I never understood why some posters are always like "we need a 4-3" "as long as they run 4-3"

F the scheme, if it works it works

And here you have it, who cares as long as it works!

 

[Mnhurricane]

Like Georgia we would will end up playing quite a bit out of their “mint” package which helps limit the LB usage (thank god). We could run it decently ok minus having players I don’t like much for the Jack defender and nobody to play that overhang slot defender other than TS who left that position to play on the outside. Really only takes a year of great recruiting to have a formidable defense vs acc comp

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Like Georgia we would will end up playing quite a bit out of their “mint” package which helps limit the LB usage (thank god). We could run it decently ok minus having players I don’t like much for the Jack defender and nobody to play that overhang slot defender other than TS who left that position to play on the outside. Really only takes a year of great recruiting to have a formidable defense vs acc comp

Really only takes pulling an edge kid and a backer out of the portal to have a formidable defense against these losers.

 

[WestEndZone]

Pretty standard 425 stuff here.

 

[dodaniels]

Where’s your pass rushers? All I see are safeties that are out of position.

Yes, there's a lack of natural pass rusher, but when you bring extra pressure or play 8 in the box you won't compromise your coverage abilities.

 

[305to954]

View attachment 167122

He did what???

If you squint..I promise that’s Antrelle rolle on tape..

 

[ColdCane]

Pretty standard 425 stuff here.

So GA runs 425 sometimes to

 

[Coach Macho]

re: body types "we don't want heavy guys"

In this video, Kirby give a TON of credit to Todd Orlando, who served as Mario's DC at FIU. Back when I was still coaching HC ball, they hosted a clinic for us and they really impressed.

One of the DC candidates, Schumann talks at the end. Seems sharp.

**Admits that they don't get enough sacks and TFLs**

Love this video. I showed it to my players about 3 months ago.