Off-Topic Personal Health & Fitness HELP Thread

[OriginalGatorHater]

I never said “calories don’t matter.” What I said was that, with this approach, you don’t need to count calories.

Which is wrong.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

I’m not an expert, but I’ve had experience with a lot that’s being mentioned here.

There is more than one way to skin this cat, but I keep going back to the most important thing being, as far as I’m concerned, cardiovascular fitness.

The bottom line being that if you have good cardiovascular fitness, you’re not going to be at a bad weight, by definition.

I like lifting weights because I like the results, and I used to be into it in a big way, but it’s more important for me nowadays to run, or row, or hit the bag, or use the elliptical, or do something that engages my cardiovascular system and pushes it, just about every single day.

That’s why I keep stressing having a medical check up including all the parameters/tests that I mentioned prior to this post, and also including obviously an EKG, which you are going to get in any general check up.

Getting a picture of your overall cardiovascular condition is extremely important for any man or woman, I’m just stressing men here because they have a higher incidence of heart disease.

Not trying to scare you but 70 years ago when they were doing autopsies on dead soldiers in Korea, men mostly in their 20s and 30s, they were finding significant heart disease. same thing in Vietnam, although the numbers weren’t as high. Independent studies have been done since then which shows a huge incidence of arthrosclerosis in young men.

Manifestations of coronary atherosclerosis in young trauma victims--an autopsy study - PubMed

The overall prevalence of coronary atherosclerosis in a young, predominantly male study group was comparable with that noted after the Korean War. Left main or significant two- and three-vessel involvement was noted in 20% of the group studied and emphasizes the need for aggressive risk factor...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

If you read through these citations it’ll scare you straight.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

I’m not an expert, but I’ve had experience with a lot that’s being mentioned here.

There is more than one way to skin this cat, but I keep going back to the most important thing being, as far as I’m concerned, cardiovascular fitness.

The bottom line being that if you have good cardiovascular fitness, you’re not going to be at a bad weight, by definition.

I like lifting weights because I like the results, and I used to be into it in a big way, but it’s more important for me nowadays to run, or row, or hit the bag, or use the elliptical, or do something that engages my cardiovascular system and pushes it, just about every single day.

That’s why I keep stressing having a medical check up including all the parameters/tests that I mentioned prior to this post, and also including obviously an EKG, which you are going to get in any general check up.

Getting a picture of your overall cardiovascular condition is extremely important for any man or woman, I’m just stressing men here because they have a higher incidence of heart disease.

Not trying to scare you but 70 years ago when they were doing autopsies on dead soldiers in Korea, men mostly in their 20s and 30s, they were finding significant heart disease. same thing in Vietnam, although the numbers weren’t as high. Independent studies have been done since then which shows a huge incidence of arthrosclerosis in young men.

Manifestations of coronary atherosclerosis in young trauma victims--an autopsy study - PubMed

The overall prevalence of coronary atherosclerosis in a young, predominantly male study group was comparable with that noted after the Korean War. Left main or significant two- and three-vessel involvement was noted in 20% of the group studied and emphasizes the need for aggressive risk factor...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

If you read through these citations it’ll scare you straight.

This post right is 100% correct.

 

[mr.h]

If you’re hungry enough to eat an apple, then eat an apple.

 

[Bender]

I am gonna make a lengthy post in a minute because I am still waiting in line for a car wash, but I lost 20 kg in a year and I want to share what I did and how I did it. But gimme some time lol

 

[Empirical Cane]

I know we have multiple people who are professionals in this area, dozens more who are knowledgeable, and probably a majority who are like me: looking for better results. I’ve been kicking around the idea of submitting my situation, seeing if it sparks a greater conversation, and hopefully helping some people improve their body and life.

Here goes nothing.

Im in the 35-45 year old range. For most of my life I’ve had a pretty light build and have been in and out of gyms on and off throughout adulthood. During my 30-35 years I let myself go, took on a lot of fat and decreased muscle mass, coinciding with the expected drop in metabolism.

In the last 2 years I’ve changed several things to counteract this trend. 1) Intermittent fasting for 16 hours a day (I’ll come back to this in a second). 2) Diet changes (same) 3) Workout consistency. On the whole these changes have produced real results, which has been wonderful, but I’ve hit a wall and that’s where I need helpful direction. My current irritation is that build is the best it’s been in years, it’s just hiding under a layer of fat around my sides and gut that is smaller but still not gone entirely or moving in that direction.

Here’s a more in depth breakdown of each of the three changes I’ve made:

Fasting: I’m keeping to this at least 5 days a week, eating only between 12pm-8pm. The benefits of this is it definitely took fat off and gave me a “consistent maximum” to where I am. It also had multiple side benefits, i have virtually no reflux or gas, and I sleep much better because my stomach isn’t working all night long. However, after 2 years I feel as though it has reached its maximum output for change. I will probably keep it up for the rest of my life because the benefits are so good.

Diet: I have never enjoyed sodas, sweet teas or energy drinks. I like water, coffee alternatives, occasional red wine, tea, and maybe orange juice a couple glasses a month. I don’t often eat sweets, I’ve cut out all “Starbucks drinks”, started eating almonds instead of chips and snacks, etc. One area I can improve on is fast food, it’s a side effect of my profession being on the road nearly every day. Bread I eat probably 3-5 times a week, starches like noodles maybe a little less often.

Workout: I stopped going to the gym but I do a lot of stuff at home. I like body workouts more than weights, so I’m daily doing squats, various push-ups, sit ups, dips, planks, and so forth. My body has responded very well to this regimen, even better than a weight training program I was on prior.

I am not trying to become Mr. Universe. I am a middle aged dad who wants to shave off the last tire around his belly and continue to work hard at keeping myself in good shape into the next phase of my life. Any strategy or thoughts to improve any or all of these areas would help me (and I assume others) tremendously.

Thanks to anyone who reads and responds!

- Get an air fryer
- Read and embrace both of these

If you follow, has the real potential at changing the course of your, and your family's, health journey for life.


Big tobacco/big alchohol's impacts on our societies pale in comparison to what Big Food has done.

The well intended, but now proven foolish, drive at "low-fat" x, y, and z that started in the 60s has led to poor qualities of life/death for millions of people around the globe.

 

[MedleyCane]

A few simple suggestions, Inday.

Tighten up your feeding window. The next logical step is a 6 hour window. Are you training during your feeding window? If not, you "should" be.

Introduce a kettlebell routine to supplement what I assume is bodyweight work. It'll be a minimal investment. A few hundred bucks will get you enough to last you a long time (most kettlebell guys recommend starting with 16kg and 24kg...I'd add in a 30kg too, you'll find that you'll want one sooner rather than later) Start with turkish getups, swings, and adding them to your squats and as you get more comfortable with the form and technique, you can add snatches, cleans, etc. These will help you focus on long-term gainz and focus less on the short term because...

...because, you know you gotta tighten up on the diet and that is probably one of the reasons you've plateau'd a bit.

Random...but don't be afraid to add some yoga to your routine, too. Not every day, but a few times a week. Start with like 30 minutes and over time you'll get to 45...60.

Overall, start thinking long term with the training and not the short term. As you get older diversify and work on mobility, flexibility, functional strength and the rest will take care of itself.

Good call on the Kettlebells.
Just make sure you did the basic exercises like the swings in correct form. There is a guy named Pavel Tsatsouline who is one of the experts in this field and he has videos on YouTube. I would recommend. Kettlebells can get a little pricey, but are worth it...I found a place in the Orlando area where you can buy them by the pound. As for other KB exercises and how to do them in combination, I would recommend Chandler Marchman's youtube channel. He has all kinds of complexes incorporating TUT, HIIT, etc concepts.

 

[AlexCane]

Man, back on the old Grassy site we had a thread that probably ended up 1000+ pages with loads of useful info. Me, @JHallCanes and @AUcane were frequent contributors. So was (was it) jcanes19 or something like that? Good times.

Let me weigh in on what @OriginalGatorHater posted concerning grains. I've read about this for years. There is indeed a lot of science and studies that calories matter more than food and that your body can't distinguish between 1 calorie of bread vs. 1 calorie of tuna.

But for someone who's tried this out personally over many years and has read loads of anecdotes over the years, I don't find that's accurate in practice. IMO, the caliber and quality of calories matters more than quantity. Quite frankly, I dare you to find any professional bodybuilders or fitness models eating bread, pasta, grain, milk products, etc. pre-contest or pre-shoot (edit, haha, other than Layne).

Instead of going back-and-forth on this, try it yourself. Get rid of bread, pasta, oats, grains, milk products, etc. for 2-3 weeks. Replace it with better options. See what happens. Post your daily diet and let me give you some suggestions for your "trial phase."

Anecdotally, when "gluten" became a bad word and paleo made a lot of noise, out of curiosity I switched from SAD (standard American diet) to a more paleo type approach and went from 10-12% BF to 7-8%. That grains, pasta, bread made such a huge difference in my physique was shocking to me because I was already quite lean.

Also:

Fast food sucks and you already know that.

You are plateauing because you haven't introduced any new stimuli to your body. It's content. Short of trying something new diet-wise (see above) or a new exercise routine, your body will stay the same. If you want to introduce change, bodyweight stuff won't cut it. A kettlebell is an awesome idea (I own 4) but even if you purchase 1 or 2, you'll likely plateau in a couple months. I'm not sure there is a whole lot of dispute that the best way to approach body composition is weight training, not cardio. Not sure where you are but hit up a trainer you like who'll motivate you.

 

[AlexCane]

1 more thing!

The most empowering thing you can do for your health is to learn to cook. Anyone who thinks that eating "healthy" is steamed broccoli and canned tuna is an idiot. If you learn to cook well, you can eat well and healthy. Then pack meals. With some practice, you can cook better than most places.

Think about it this way--even if you exercise 4 days a week at 1.5 hours, that's 6 hours. Conversely, how much time do you spend eating week-long? Lot more than that. Nutrition is 80-90% of the equation. And since it seems you're not particularly enthused about exercise (which is fine, not everyone is) nutrition becomes even more key.

 

[ddann]

Let me weigh in on what @OriginalGatorHater posted concerning grains. I've read about this for years. There is indeed a lot of science and studies that calories matter more than food and that your body can't distinguish between 1 calorie of bread vs. 1 calorie of tuna.

But for someone who's tried this out personally over many years and has read loads of anecdotes over the years, I don't find that's accurate in practice. IMO, the caliber and quality of calories matters more than quantity. Quite frankly, I dare you to find any professional bodybuilders or fitness models eating bread, pasta, grain, milk products, etc. pre-contest or pre-shoot (edit, haha, other than Layne).

Instead of going back-and-forth on this, try it yourself. Get rid of bread, pasta, oats, grains, milk products, etc. for 2-3 weeks. Replace it with better options. See what happens. Post your daily diet and let me give you some suggestions for your "trial phase."

Anecdotally, when "gluten" became a bad word and paleo made a lot of noise, out of curiosity I switched from SAD (standard American diet) to a more paleo type approach and went from 10-12% BF to 7-8%. That grains, pasta, bread made such a huge difference in my physique was shocking to me because I was already quite lean.

^This.

Thanks, @AlexCane

 

[ddann]

Think about it this way--even if you exercise 4 days a week at 1.5 hours, that's 6 hours. Conversely, how much time do you spend eating week-long? Lot more than that. Nutrition is 80-90% of the equation. And since it seems you're not particularly enthused about exercise (which is fine, not everyone is) nutrition becomes even more key.

Right.

Lowering body fat % (getting rid of that stubborn belly fat) is 80 to 90% a function of diet rather than the result of slogging through hours and hours of cardio exercise.

But that message doesn’t sell as many thighmasters, treadmills, and gym memberships.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

Man, back on the old Grassy site we had a thread that probably ended up 1000+ pages with loads of useful info. Me, @JHallCanes and @AUcane were frequent contributors. So was (was it) jcanes19 or something like that? Good times.

Let me weigh in on what @OriginalGatorHater posted concerning grains. I've read about this for years. There is indeed a lot of science and studies that calories matter more than food and that your body can't distinguish between 1 calorie of bread vs. 1 calorie of tuna.

But for someone who's tried this out personally over many years and has read loads of anecdotes over the years, I don't find that's accurate in practice. IMO, the caliber and quality of calories matters more than quantity. Quite frankly, I dare you to find any professional bodybuilders or fitness models eating bread, pasta, grain, milk products, etc. pre-contest or pre-shoot (edit, haha, other than Layne).

Instead of going back-and-forth on this, try it yourself. Get rid of bread, pasta, oats, grains, milk products, etc. for 2-3 weeks. Replace it with better options. See what happens. Post your daily diet and let me give you some suggestions for your "trial phase."

Anecdotally, when "gluten" became a bad word and paleo made a lot of noise, out of curiosity I switched from SAD (standard American diet) to a more paleo type approach and went from 10-12% BF to 7-8%. That grains, pasta, bread made such a huge difference in my physique was shocking to me because I was already quite lean.

Also:

Fast food sucks and you already know that.

You are plateauing because you haven't introduced any new stimuli to your body. It's content. Short of trying something new diet-wise (see above) or a new exercise routine, your body will stay the same. If you want to introduce change, bodyweight stuff won't cut it. A kettlebell is an awesome idea (I own 4) but even if you purchase 1 or 2, you'll likely plateau in a couple months. I'm not sure there is a whole lot of dispute that the best way to approach body composition is weight training, not cardio. Not sure where you are but hit up a trainer you like who'll motivate you.

I’m not responding to the entire post, I still think the thermodynamic aspect, that is calories in versus calories expended is the strongest foundation for losing weight and fat..

But having said that, reducing carbohydrates is an excellent idea. In fact if you keep your carbohydrate intake whether you’re on a Paleo type diet or not, under 100 g a day, that’s excellent, if you want to do a more extreme version of this then you go under 25 which is really hard for most people to keep up for an extended period of time.

This is important because of the insulin/blood glucose aspects. I’ve seen relatives and friends reduce their A1C‘s just by going on a low carb diet, but a good part of that is the fact that they lost weight along with that.

To me the most important aspect of carbohydrate reduction is the health benefits as they relate to diabetes or pre-diabetes and metabolic syndrome.

Obesity and diabetes are raging epidemic in this country, mainly because we are high industrialized, highly advanced, and overly well fed population.

 

[AlexCane]

I’m not responding to the entire post, I still think the thermodynamic aspect, that is calories in versus calories expended is the strongest foundation for losing weight and fat..

God bless anyone who can sustain calorie counting. I couldn't. I'm a hardgainer and have always been lean so I've never had to, but I can't fathom how anyone can stick to that to lose weight. Too tedious. Too much guesswork. Eating should be fun not some task to crunch numbers. IMO, that type of practice will lead to failure. I think if the focus is on eating good food, most would be ok.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

God bless anyone who can sustain calorie counting. I couldn't. I'm a hardgainer and have always been lean so I've never had to, but I can't fathom how anyone can stick to that to lose weight. Too tedious. Too much guesswork. Eating should be fun not some task to crunch numbers. IMO, that type of practice will lead to failure. I think if the focus is on eating good food, most would be ok.

Well people don’t really have to count calories. In fact, not too many do that I know of. Some super meticulous people do it.

The average person that wants to lose weight goes on meal plans, i’m not talking about Weight Watchers, or some commercial programs, but they go on diet plans, or just portion control type of diets.You don’t really need to meticulously count calories if you want to lose weight, you just eat reasonable meals with reasonable portions.

When I was trying to get as cut and ripped as possible I used to do it, I used to do all kinds of crazy things, until I realized the most important thing was to have cardiovascular fitness. I don’t lift weights like I used to, I still do it but just to maintain weight and definition, not to try to see if I could be the guy that put the most plates on. I can still kill it on the leg press though

 

[JHallCanes]

God bless anyone who can sustain calorie counting. I couldn't. I'm a hardgainer and have always been lean so I've never had to, but I can't fathom how anyone can stick to that to lose weight. Too tedious. Too much guesswork. Eating should be fun not some task to crunch numbers. IMO, that type of practice will lead to failure. I think if the focus is on eating good food, most would be ok.

My man!

It’s amazing how the health and fitness information industry has spiraled out of control just in a few years since we were chopping it up every day haha

How many more ways can you tell people to eat a bit less and move a bit more?

But I’m with you, I stopped tracking macros a long time ago. Granted if I had a specific goal I would go back to it but it’s just way too time consuming

But at this point I think we just kinda memorize the macros we normally ingest anyway so technically we are always “tracking”

A few years back I actually developed an app that teaches people the scientific story on dietary supplements and it turned into an entirely new business and direction in my life. Those days with you guys, JCanes (what a gem that dude was lol) definitely pushed me to get more involved

Now basically we consult supplement companies (a lot of amazon stuff) and fitness influencers. Not a bad gig

Never thought I would be on social media but turned Instagram into basically calling out all the bull**** I see haha

 

[TemplarCane]

Good call on the Kettlebells.
Just make sure you did the basic exercises like the swings in correct form. There is a guy named Pavel Tsatsouline who is one of the experts in this field and he has videos on YouTube. I would recommend. Kettlebells can get a little pricey, but are worth it...I found a place in the Orlando area where you can buy them by the pound. As for other KB exercises and how to do them in combination, I would recommend Chandler Marchman's youtube channel. He has all kinds of complexes incorporating TUT, HIIT, etc concepts.

Was going to post a suggestion about Kettlebells. No need to buy many. Depending on the size of the trainee, maybe a 12K and a 16K.

Pavel is a leader in the field and a great source. I do recommend looking for a StrongFirst trainer, even if it’s for a short period so the correct form of the key exercise can be taught. If not an option, StrongFirst (Pavel’s group) has a great website, YT channel, and materials.l

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Man, back on the old Grassy site we had a thread that probably ended up 1000+ pages with loads of useful info. Me, @JHallCanes and @AUcane were frequent contributors. So was (was it) jcanes19 or something like that? Good times.

Let me weigh in on what @OriginalGatorHater posted concerning grains. I've read about this for years. There is indeed a lot of science and studies that calories matter more than food and that your body can't distinguish between 1 calorie of bread vs. 1 calorie of tuna.

But for someone who's tried this out personally over many years and has read loads of anecdotes over the years, I don't find that's accurate in practice. IMO, the caliber and quality of calories matters more than quantity. Quite frankly, I dare you to find any professional bodybuilders or fitness models eating bread, pasta, grain, milk products, etc. pre-contest or pre-shoot (edit, haha, other than Layne).

Instead of going back-and-forth on this, try it yourself. Get rid of bread, pasta, oats, grains, milk products, etc. for 2-3 weeks. Replace it with better options. See what happens. Post your daily diet and let me give you some suggestions for your "trial phase."

Anecdotally, when "gluten" became a bad word and paleo made a lot of noise, out of curiosity I switched from SAD (standard American diet) to a more paleo type approach and went from 10-12% BF to 7-8%. That grains, pasta, bread made such a huge difference in my physique was shocking to me because I was already quite lean.

Also:

Fast food sucks and you already know that.

You are plateauing because you haven't introduced any new stimuli to your body. It's content. Short of trying something new diet-wise (see above) or a new exercise routine, your body will stay the same. If you want to introduce change, bodyweight stuff won't cut it. A kettlebell is an awesome idea (I own 4) but even if you purchase 1 or 2, you'll likely plateau in a couple months. I'm not sure there is a whole lot of dispute that the best way to approach body composition is weight training, not cardio. Not sure where you are but hit up a trainer you like who'll motivate you.

First most bodybuilders eat carbs for a large portion of their cut, and only cut them out near the very end for reasons that won't make a difference for Inday. Such as retaining water and things like that. Inday isn't prepping for a show and is only interested in looking good for a single day. If that was the case, then yes he should cut carbs at the end, mess around with his sodium intake, dehydrate himself, etc. However, that is not what he is going for. A general bodybuilding cut cycle, which is where they lose the most fat, is going to have them eating carbs.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

God bless anyone who can sustain calorie counting. I couldn't. I'm a hardgainer and have always been lean so I've never had to, but I can't fathom how anyone can stick to that to lose weight. Too tedious. Too much guesswork. Eating should be fun not some task to crunch numbers. IMO, that type of practice will lead to failure. I think if the focus is on eating good food, most would be ok.

Very few people actually need to count calories for long periods of time. You count them for maybe a week or so until you can generally figure how much you are eating. Then you go from there. Unless you are a bodybuilder or fitness model or something like that.

 

[JD08]

So much for intermittent fasting.

Scientists Find No Benefit to Time-Restricted Eating (Published 2022)

In a yearlong study, participants who confined meals to certain hours lost no more weight than those who ate at any time.

www.nytimes.com

 

[AUcane]

So much for intermittent fasting.

Scientists Find No Benefit to Time-Restricted Eating (Published 2022)

In a yearlong study, participants who confined meals to certain hours lost no more weight than those who ate at any time.

www.nytimes.com

I can't read b/c of a paywall but this is interesting to me. I thought it was a foregone conclusion that intermittent fasting was beneficial. That was agreed upon by all nutrition theorists (paleo, keto, plant based, etc).