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Pac 12 Players Asking for 50% of revenue to play this year

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OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
This is likely not going anywhere.

I’m 100% in favor of increased player compensation, comprehensive health insurance, to include a limited amount of time post career (like a subsidized extended Cobra), as well as enriching the current likeness compensation deal.

But these west coast goofballs started from such an extreme position, they set themselves up for failure.

Some of you guys are talking about negotiations 101. Here’s one maxim: you don’t start from such an extreme position that you’re not taken seriously.

It‘s like offering 50 g’s for a new Porsche Turbo S at the lot. The salesman will just walk away from you.
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This was my thought when I initially read it. To call it a "demand" was a poor choice of words. They could have been just as demanding and let the powers that be know just how serious they are, without using the particular language they did. As another poster said, either they had poor legal counsel, legal counsel that had ulterior motives (non-revenue sports), or no legal counsel.

That said, the kids hold all the cards. Without doing any research, Fox Sports would be ****ed. The schools would get no TV money. Sure, that is mostly used to fund athletics, but is USC still USC without football? I'd think enrollment would go way down.

Depending on the language of the contracts, the coaches might not get paid. If they do, it'll come from the general fund rather than AD revenues. Again putting huge financial strains on universities.

I read an article last week where there was a conference call with the SEC student-athlete leadership committee (I made up that name) and the doctors, the SEC commish, and university reps. The call was supposed to be private but leaked. The kids were asking the exact same questions: how can you promise to keep us safe? I wouldn't be surprised if kids in other conferences follow suit.

These kids turn on the NBA and see "Say her name" on the back of the jerseys. The current climate in the country is not ideal for elitist university presidents and coaches making millions per year off mostly young, black athletes. This could potentially change the US higher education system forever. The schools are gonna have to make a deal.

And the real kicker: fall camp is supposed to start in a week or two. Negotiations of this magnitude would normally take months, if not years. The Pac-12 now has a few weeks, maybe a month if they push back the season more. The Pac-12 is fuct.
 
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scrantoncane said:
This was my thought when I initially read it. To call it a "demand" was a poor choice of words. They could have been just as demanding and let the powers that be know just how serious they are, without using the particular language they did. As another poster said, either they had poor legal counsel, legal counsel that had ulterior motives (non-revenue sports), or no legal counsel.

That said, the kids hold all the cards. Without doing any research, Fox Sports would be ****ed. The schools would get no TV money. Sure, that is mostly used to fund athletics, but is USC still USC without football? I'd think enrollment would go way down.

Depending on the language of the contracts, the coaches might not get paid. If they do, it'll come from the general fund rather than AD revenues. Again putting huge financial strains on universities.

I read an article last week where there was a conference call with the SEC student-athlete leadership committee (I made up that name) and the doctors, the SEC commish, and university reps. The call was supposed to be private but leaked. The kids were asking the exact same questions: how can you promise to keep us safe? I wouldn't be surprised if kids in other conferences follow suit.

These kids turn on the NBA and see "Say her name" on the back of the jerseys. The current climate in the country is not ideal for elitist university presidents and coaches making millions per year off mostly young, black athletes. This could potentially change the US higher education system forever. The schools are gonna have to make a deal.

And the real kicker: fall camp is supposed to start in a week or two. Negotiations of this magnitude would normally take months, if not years. The Pac-12 now has a few weeks, maybe a month if they push back the season more. The Pac-12 is fuct.
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Presents a real moonshot opportunity for HBCUs doesnt it?

Get the biggest names in athletics and entertainment, college football could look very different in a few years...

Imagine HBCUs breaking off, or carving out, their own niche under NCAA big top circus.

Now, do the big money folks put their dollars where their mouths are????

Robert Smith sure did.
 
scrantoncane said:
This was my thought when I initially read it. To call it a "demand" was a poor choice of words. They could have been just as demanding and let the powers that be know just how serious they are, without using the particular language they did. As another poster said, either they had poor legal counsel, legal counsel that had ulterior motives (non-revenue sports), or no legal counsel.

That said, the kids hold all the cards. Without doing any research, Fox Sports would be ****ed. The schools would get no TV money. Sure, that is mostly used to fund athletics, but is USC still USC without football? I'd think enrollment would go way down.

Depending on the language of the contracts, the coaches might not get paid. If they do, it'll come from the general fund rather than AD revenues. Again putting huge financial strains on universities.

I read an article last week where there was a conference call with the SEC student-athlete leadership committee (I made up that name) and the doctors, the SEC commish, and university reps. The call was supposed to be private but leaked. The kids were asking the exact same questions: how can you promise to keep us safe? I wouldn't be surprised if kids in other conferences follow suit.

These kids turn on the NBA and see "Say her name" on the back of the jerseys. The current climate in the country is not ideal for elitist university presidents and coaches making millions per year off mostly young, black athletes. This could potentially change the US higher education system forever. The schools are gonna have to make a deal.

And the real kicker: fall camp is supposed to start in a week or two. Negotiations of this magnitude would normally take months, if not years. The Pac-12 now has a few weeks, maybe a month if they push back the season more. The Pac-12 is fuct.
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You think enrollment would go way down at a school with a 16% acceptance rate? You obviously dont realize that most students don’t give a crap about the sports teams. These kids have no leverage if it is only one conference and a handful of players. Almost everyone would have to sit out for it to make a difference. And in case you or these athletes don’t realize, no one can promise safety in this situation, only precautions can be taken. They are adults and can make their decisions
 
scrantoncane said:
This was my thought when I initially read it. To call it a "demand" was a poor choice of words. They could have been just as demanding and let the powers that be know just how serious they are, without using the particular language they did. As another poster said, either they had poor legal counsel, legal counsel that had ulterior motives (non-revenue sports), or no legal counsel.

That said, the kids hold all the cards. Without doing any research, Fox Sports would be ****ed. The schools would get no TV money. Sure, that is mostly used to fund athletics, but is USC still USC without football? I'd think enrollment would go way down.

Depending on the language of the contracts, the coaches might not get paid. If they do, it'll come from the general fund rather than AD revenues. Again putting huge financial strains on universities.

I read an article last week where there was a conference call with the SEC student-athlete leadership committee (I made up that name) and the doctors, the SEC commish, and university reps. The call was supposed to be private but leaked. The kids were asking the exact same questions: how can you promise to keep us safe? I wouldn't be surprised if kids in other conferences follow suit.

These kids turn on the NBA and see "Say her name" on the back of the jerseys. The current climate in the country is not ideal for elitist university presidents and coaches making millions per year off mostly young, black athletes. This could potentially change the US higher education system forever. The schools are gonna have to make a deal.

And the real kicker: fall camp is supposed to start in a week or two. Negotiations of this magnitude would normally take months, if not years. The Pac-12 now has a few weeks, maybe a month if they push back the season more. The Pac-12 is fuct.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I think you are 100% correct that they have been poorly advised.

But nothing changes the fact that their initial position was so poorly presented and thought out, that it likely creates an environment that is not conducive to further good faith negotiations.

I have a different view on their position of leverage, though. I don’t think they hold all the cards at all, because my understanding is that many, if not the majority, of players want to and will play. Remember this initial statement of position is only representative of a fraction of the PAC players.

As far as other conference players, for example the SEC as you mentioned, expressing concern? That’s only to be expected. I think it’s a quantum leap from that, to what the PAC players followed through with. I don’t think one necessarily follows the other.

In the end, time will tell. In fact, the timeline is very short here, we are literally talking a few short weeks.
 
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***-e-skr said:
There are plenty of kids out there who would gladly take that scholarship and play. These kids aren’t irreplaceable.
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Do you want to watch Clayton Kershaw, or the AA guy that gets called up to replace him?
Miami[]_[]Smoke said:
You think enrollment would go way down at a school with a 16% acceptance rate? You obviously dont realize that most students don’t give a crap about the sports teams. These kids have no leverage if it is only one conference and a handful of players. Almost everyone would have to sit out for it to make a difference. And in case you or these athletes don’t realize, no one can promise safety in this situation, only precautions can be taken. They are adults and can make their decisions
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I agree that it would take a large number of kids to get it done. And it can't just be the walkons, there needs to be some big names (keep in mind, the 1st round CB from VT is already sitting out).

But to say they have no leverage is simply untrue. Part of the leverage will come from Fox/Espn, as I said. Money talks. And maybe USC was a bad example. Here's a quick google on Alabama during the Saban era:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvan...everyone-wants-to-go-to-alabama/#3c71d5f5393a

If you dont think sports play a part in a universities enrollment, then I don't know what to say.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I think you are 100% correct that they have been poorly advised.

But nothing changes the fact that their initial position was so poorly presented and thought out, that it likely creates an environment that is not conducive to further good faith negotiations.

I have a different view on their position of leverage, though. I don’t think they hold all the cards at all, because my understanding is that many, if not the majority, of players want to and will play. Remember this initial statement of position is only representative of a fraction of the PAC players.

As far as other conference players, for example the SEC as you mentioned, expressing concern? That’s only to be expected. I think it’s a quantum leap from that, to what the PAC players followed through with. I don’t think one necessarily follows the other.

In the end, time will tell. In fact, the timeline is very short here, we are literally talking a few short weeks.
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I'd like to get your thoughts. Please click on the link in post #90.

A bigger overall point that I am failing to make is the overall integrity of the US higher education system during Covid and combined with BLM. Enrollment was already down nationwide before the pandemic, and now with online classes only, it is way down. The system needs to be saved, and sports is a big part of doing so.

How many black kids don't go pro but get an education via sports scholarship? Are we gonna just hang them out to dry because they arent a 1st round pick? In today's environment? What would the long term implications be, wealth gap and the like? I just don't see it happening.

Are we gonna just let the G5 schools go under? How many jobs in academia will be lost if those schools go under?

I think the "next man up, we don't need the Pac-12" argument is naive. Fox needs the Pac-12. ESPN needs to make sure the SEC student-athletes don't follow suit. The colleges need sports, not the XFL to become the minor leagues. The leverage lies therein, somewhere.
 
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Problem2 said:


Not just some scrubs and JAGS in that group
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Still grasping....
tenor.gif
 
scrantoncane said:
Do you want to watch Clayton Kershaw, or the AA guy that gets called up to replace him?

I agree that it would take a large number of kids to get it done. And it can't just be the walkons, there needs to be some big names (keep in mind, the 1st round CB from VT is already sitting out).

But to say they have no leverage is simply untrue. Part of the leverage will come from Fox/Espn, as I said. Money talks. And maybe USC was a bad example. Here's a quick google on Alabama during the Saban era:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvan...everyone-wants-to-go-to-alabama/#3c71d5f5393a

If you dont think sports play a part in a universities enrollment, then I don't know what to say.
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These kids can be replaced by others who can step in and fill the void. These kids are going to learn a valuable life lesson with their demands, in particular the financial aspect.

Their only wild card is that they play in a liberal wonder world that has no spine.
 
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scrantoncane said:
I'd like to get your thoughts. Please click on the link in post #90.

A bigger overall point that I am failing to make is the overall integrity of the US higher education system during Covid and combined with BLM. Enrollment was already down nationwide before the pandemic, and now with online classes only, it is way down. The system needs to be saved, and sports is a big part of doing so.

How many black kids don't go pro but get an education via sports scholarship? Are we gonna just hang them out to dry because they arent a 1st round pick? In today's environment? What would the long term implications be, wealth gap and the like? I just don't see it happening.

Are we gonna just let the G5 schools go under? How many jobs in academia will be lost if those schools go under?

I think the "next man up, we don't need the Pac-12" argument is naive. Fox needs the Pac-12. ESPN needs to make sure the SEC student-athletes don't follow suit. The colleges need sports, not the XFL to become the minor leagues. The leverage lies therein, somewhere.
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I understand your arguments, but I don’t think they’re going to have an impact on this particular situation and its negotiation.

My comments were related specifically to this situation, not the bigger picture topics you’ve brought up.

As an aside, I completely agree with the importance of education via sports scholarship. Especially since the majority football players will not make significant income from professional football. But I believe this is just as much of an issue of athlete acceptance of the importance of education as it is an issue with educational administration.

You and I both know what the typical attitude is in high school, and going into college, regarding the importance of applying oneself to an education. Let’s not dance around the issue: way too many athletes, maybe even most, assign no value to their education and therefore pay it minimal attention, and give it minimal effort. We would be well served to continually try to impress upon young people the importance of the work they need to put in for their education, as regards to their future, and to try to help them eschew the peer pressure they get to not study (“don’t be a *****, drop the books, let’s hang out”), - focus on their education
 
scrantoncane said:
Asking the kids to sign Covid waivers so that the schools can collect the television revenue was a slap in the face. Good for these kids for standing up for themselves.
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People are asked to sign waivers for everything from youth sports to pro sports.

It's almost impossible to see any college playing sports without covid-language in a waiver, because you could be on the hook for billions in a future class action. Hopefully the new stimulus bill includes the liability shield like the Senate wants. Without it, not just college sports but much of our economy will never be able to re-open.

Also, 50% of the REVENUE is a joke. College athletes aren't the most intelligent people out there but not understanding the difference between profit and revenue is sad. Miami and almost every other school would be finished with athletics if they had to pay out 50% of the revenue
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
I understand your arguments, but I don’t think they’re going to have an impact on this particular situation and its negotiation.

My comments were related specifically to this situation, not the bigger picture topics you’ve brought up.

As an aside, I completely agree with the importance of education via sports scholarship. Especially since the majority football players will not make significant income from professional football. But I believe this is just as much of an issue of athlete acceptance of the importance of education as it is an issue with educational administration.

You and I both know what the typical attitude is in high school, and going into college, regarding the importance of applying oneself to an education. Let’s not dance around the issue: way too many athletes, maybe even most, assign no value to their education and therefore pay it minimal attention, and give it minimal effort. We would be well served to continually try to impress upon young people the importance of the work they need to put in for their education, as regards to their future, and to try to help them eschew the peer pressure they get to not study (“don’t be a *****, drop the books, let’s hang out”), - focus on their education
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Amen. Just look at the attitudes around here. People think of them as future NFL players who happen to play on a team with a school's name instead of college students who use football to pay for their education.
 
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