OT - Game of Thrones S8

JHallCanes

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I can’t buy the “foreshadowing Dany as going mad queen angle from long ago.” I don’t care that we got this point. But I care how we got to this point. This is a character that overwhelmingly went out of her way to spare the downtrodden. Yes she burned ppl and places but go back every single one of those acts was in retaliation/self defense. (Aside from the burning of the tarlys). So now all of sudden she is full blown mad-queen and doesn’t care about the ppl she is trying to rule?

I find it disappointing how forced and fake it feels. Just compare her progression to that of Jamie Lannister and Sansa’s characters that have done 180s you see them develop into those ppl they are on the show and it was done masterfully and each of those was primarily done over the course of one season. this was just sloppy, I get that they are rushed but idk.

And what’s with Varys all of a sudden forgetting how to play the game? Dude has stayed alive all these years only to get caught up by the lease cunning ppl he’s ever been around.
I would say Varys is underrated the most unbelievable part of the entire deal. You’re exactly right.

I don’t completely agree with what you’re saying about Dany but only because I’m interpreting a bit differently I think.

Still an episode to go with her. But yeah Varys? Insane really. Dude made it this far by being smarter than everyone else.
 

QuatroCane

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Two things kept popping up in my head as I watched this episode. How TF did anyone find their way around KL, that place was cramped and overbuilt, second how much of that exploding fire do the drangon(s) have, does it ever run out?

Thanks in advance for the help.
 

S.O.M.

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I would say Varys is underrated the most unbelievable part of the entire deal. You’re exactly right.

I don’t completely agree with what you’re saying about Dany but only because I’m interpreting a bit differently I think.

Still an episode to go with her. But yeah Varys? Insane really. Dude made it this far by being smarter than everyone else.
I thought the same w/ Varys initially, but it makes sense when you look at it from the perspective that he knew she was burning KL down in a couple of days, and he didn't have time to plot and play games. His whole "for the realm" bit forced his hand, and he knew it could/would cost him his life if Jon and T didn't go along.
 

dhouze

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Two things kept popping up in my head as I watched this episode. How TF did anyone find their way around KL, that place was cramped and overbuilt, second how much of that exploding fire do the drangon(s) have, does it ever run out?

Thanks in advance for the help.
Dragons are magic so the applicable rules are hard to discern. This ambiguity also applies to Uncle Benjen's fire mace killing white walkers with ease but Dothraki magic flaming araks being totally worthless. It's the price one pays for watching "Fantasy" programs.
 

BoxingRobes

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I can’t buy the “foreshadowing Dany as going mad queen angle from long ago.” I don’t care that we got this point. But I care how we got to this point. This is a character that overwhelmingly went out of her way to spare the downtrodden. Yes she burned ppl and places but go back every single one of those acts was in retaliation/self defense. (Aside from the burning of the tarlys). So now all of sudden she is full blown mad-queen and doesn’t care about the ppl she is trying to rule?

I find it disappointing how forced and fake it feels. Just compare her progression to that of Jamie Lannister and Sansa’s characters that have done 180s you see them develop into those ppl they are on the show and it was done masterfully and each of those was primarily done over the course of one season. this was just sloppy, I get that they are rushed but idk.

And what’s with Varys all of a sudden forgetting how to play the game? Dude has stayed alive all these years only to get caught up by the lease cunning ppl he’s ever been around.
I think a lot of what is happening with Dany is now just retcon'ing and trying to make the square peg fit the round hole. Her destroying the scorpions, Iron Fleet, Golden Company, Kings Landing Guard...all perfectly fine. Inch-by-inch destroying Kings Landing and all of its innocent civilians flies in the face of her character for the entire series up to that point where she says fvck it and makes a move on the Red Keep. Her killing treasonists, masters, and dissenters has a place in this universe...the innocent...you're right, it doesn't make a ton of sense.

The end of Varys seems very silly and was a microcosm of the plot issues the writers face. Varys is a nuanced character driven by dialogue...you don't really get that by the end.
 

HarrietTubmanCane

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Danys progression into a murderous maniac makes perfect sense to me and was brought about diligently by the writers. Her character has been shown to be unforgiving and ruthless on several occasions (burning the witch, locking dude and the girl in that tomb, killing the slave masters etc). Then there is the Targaryen bloodline that is littered with incest, and incest blood leading to the psychotic breaks of her other Targaryen predecessors.

Then there’s the theme that everyone who has pursued the throne has or will embark on some injustice during their pursuit.

My wife is a licensed family/marriage/children counselor and therapist. One day she came home and told me that one of her colleagues had previously referred her nephew for employment as a therapist and that he was hired today. When he came into a social room/lunch break room where the therapist hang out during a break for one of his trainings, he was so excited that he came up to his aunt and told her that he accepted an offer (he said the number) that was 15k-20k more than any of his women colleagues on the therapist team including his 20 year veteran therapist aunt. The nephew was a white male who had just received his masters degree and passed the licensure exam. He had zero experience as a therapist, but my wife had 12 years experience and the other women had at least 5 years and up. They also attended better schools than he did according to his aunt. Ironically, every professional who contributed to his hiring and the process of establishing and approving his salary was a woman. All women who would be honored to be called a feminist. They all pursued power and influence in their careers supposedly to balance the scales and help establish equality for their demographic, but when they reached these positions, functionally they became they same tyrants (men) they claimed to want to usurp. What Dany did was a proxy and microcosm for what many do every single day.

I also know several women that if their best friend and most trusted confidant was beheaded in front of them, and their prospective husband chose his family/truth over them and their relationship, would burn an entire city to the ground in rage.
 
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HurricaneHauk

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She killed the witch who killed her husband
She killed the leader of Qarth and his side ho because they betrayed her
She killed slave masters to Fred the slaves
She killed the Tarly father and son AFTER they refused to bend the knee
She killed Varys because he was committing treason

Let me know when you justify her killing hundreds of thousands of innocents because it was the “norm” for her
 

HarrietTubmanCane

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She killed the witch who killed her husband
She killed the leader of Qarth and his side ho because they betrayed her
She killed slave masters to Fred the slaves
She killed the Tarly father and son AFTER they refused to bend the knee
She killed Varys because he was committing treason

Let me know when you justify her killing hundreds of thousands of innocents because it was the “norm” for her
I just did. She killed hundreds of thousands “AFTER” everything I just mentioned. It’s the “norm” for her bloodline.

I don’t have to justify anything, what she did made sense to me after what has been presented over the last almost decade of this show. And I’m not alone.
 

Dan E. Dangerously

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She killed the witch who killed her husband
She killed the leader of Qarth and his side ho because they betrayed her
She killed slave masters to Fred the slaves
She killed the Tarly father and son AFTER they refused to bend the knee
She killed Varys because he was committing treason

Let me know when you justify her killing hundreds of thousands of innocents because it was the “norm” for her
-Jon took revenge on a dude by chopping off his head, as the guy begged for mercy.
-He also hung an 11 year old boy from a noose for betraying him.
-By the show's logic, as a Targaryen, Jon is one case of blue balls from slaughtering millions of innocent people.
 

HarrietTubmanCane

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Jon has been shown to not be a child produced of incest.

Also, Jon has been nurtured to care for innocence and truth. He just recently came into the knowledge of his nature (bloodline), so how could such a switch be flipped so fast.

What Jon did in the past is Westerosi norms in response to betrayal, even done and modeled by his honorable father at the time. None of the things that Dany did were modeled or part of her nurture early on.
 

moshated305

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I just did. She killed hundreds of thousands “AFTER” everything I just mentioned. It’s the “norm” for her bloodline.

I don’t have to justify anything, what she did made sense to me after what has been presented over the last almost decade of this show. And I’m not alone.
So like I said the main reasoning behind her doing what she did is she's Targaryen and they are crazy. That's just lazy. The series made it seem like she will have to come to decision to give in to the madness but they never showed her actually go full on rage whore the way they did that episode and their take is it's because she saw the red keep like the ***** didn't know the red keep was going to be there and that Cersei would be in it. They could have had her just attack the keep if that was the case.
 

moshated305

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Jon has been shown to not be a child produced of incest.

Also, Jon has been nurtured to care for innocence and truth. He just recently came into the knowledge of his nature (bloodline), so how could such a switch be flipped so fast.

What Jon did in the past is Westerosi norms in response to betrayal, even done and modeled by his honorable father at the time. None of the things that Dany did were modeled or part of her nurture early on.
People died for treason and betrayal all over. Not just in Westeros. The Dothraki killed people who disobeyed their laws. Even killed Danny's brother in front of her. Nothing is did was against the norm. Killing the witch who showed no remorse for what she did and would probably have done it again if he could was the right thing to do. Leaving that guy from Qarth and the chick who betrayed her in the tomb was right. They basically sold her and her dragons into slavery. The only kill that can be questioned is the Tarlys and even Tyrion knew it had to be done, he just didn't want her to use the dragon to do it. And the idiot son didn't even listen to his own father and bend the knee for the sake of his house.
 

HarrietTubmanCane

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So like I said the main reasoning behind her doing what she did is she's Targaryen and they are crazy. That's just lazy. The series made it seem like she will have to come to decision to give in to the madness but they never showed her actually go full on rage whore the way they did that episode and their take is it's because she saw the red keep like the ***** didn't know the red keep was going to be there and that Cersei would be in it. They could have had her just attack the keep if that was the case.
I didn’t see what you previously said, but when I saw Dany’s face and the way she almost fell stumbling as she turned to walk away after her most loyal friend and confidant Missandei did not receive mercy and was instead beheaded in front of her as she yelled, “burn this bi$%h down”, I knew she had snapped. When she was shown to not be eating nor accepting visitors, I knew she had snapped. And when Dany stepped to Jon offering up some arse, which would’ve signified they’re continued relationship and love interest was rebuffed, as she stepped back and stared at him, I knew she had snapped. When she threatened Tyrion for the last time, I knew she was gonna snap.

This season the show went out of its way to hammer forth the importance of old relationships and having family. So much time was spent on connections between people (the Mountain even disobeyed Cersei and Qyburn to settle a long time feud with his brother Hound), but was also shown was Dany’s lack of familial connection and loved ones. They showed the impacts on her of Sir Jorah, Missandei, and her last bastion of hope of a connection with Jon all die out.

I knew she’d snap.
 

HarrietTubmanCane

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People died for treason and betrayal all over. Not just in Westeros. The Dothraki killed people who disobeyed their laws. Even killed Danny's brother in front of her. Nothing is did was against the norm. Killing the witch who showed no remorse for what she did and would probably have done it again if he could was the right thing to do. Leaving that guy from Qarth and the chick who betrayed her in the tomb was right. They basically sold her and her dragons into slavery. The only kill that can be questioned is the Tarlys and even Tyrion knew it had to be done, he just didn't want her to use the dragon to do it. And the idiot son didn't even listen to his own father and bend the knee for the sake of his house.
Ok, none of that conflicts with my points. People are saying that what Dany did came out of nowhere and that the writers pulled a fast one on her previously portrayed good natured character. I’m just saying that I wasn’t shocked and I believe the writers did more than hint at her going postal.

Her nature and nurture is postal.
 

CaneLife93

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I remember the episode where Dany is talking about breaking the wheel and being different. Does her actions make her another stoke on the wheel?
 
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