OT - 5 star basketball recruit chooses Howard (HBCU) over UCLA

Call me crazy, but maybe, juuust maybe if enough talented kids go to HBCUs, the major tv networks and apparel distributors, etc. will want to conduct business with those institutions???

Odds are they won't. You forget that these state flagship institutions represent an entire area, they have that name recognition. Sports are just a part of that brand. People forget that the alumni bases of these HBCUs are miserably small(and aging in a lot of respects), and that affects funding, that affects fan support, that affects the long term viability of these programs.

HBCUs serve an important societal purpose, but those institutions need to stop looking for the magic bullet, and concentrate on well managed, consistent growth. One 5 star athlete, who most likely is going to be there for 9 months isn't going to do anything. This is a great piece of PR for Howard, a **** fine school. That said, I'd be shocked if he ever played a minute for them.
 
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Great for HBCUs to have talented kids. This generates economic growth for the schools and their surrounding communities. Talented kids will make it to the pros no matter where they go, and if enough go to those schools they can compete athletically with their white counterparts(that are coincidentally lol filled with black talent) as well as financially(TV contracts, advertising, etc.). Three 5 star and 12 4 star kids going to HBCUs won't seem as crazy as a lone 5 star kid. Going to Jackson State didn't keep Walter Payton from becoming Walter Payton...

A guy being on campus for 9 months does NOTHING for the long term viability of an institution. HBCUs keep reaching for magic bullets, instead of doing the things they should have done years ago. HBCUs take their sweet time in regards to upgrading tech, they missed the online education boat. HBCUs should have been the first on that boat, as a way to bring education to those that are poorly served by the current system. A lot of HBCUs have never truly evolved a rationale for their existence outside of "Come here, you're black and we are too". HBCUs love to throw around stuff like "Walter Payton came here and it didn't hurt him". Congrats, a guy that went to college before most of us were even born, in a vastly different climate managed to overcome the odds and succeed. Think about the following: the typical incoming college freshman wasn't even born when Sweetness was alive. Yes, places like Alabama haven't evolved, but you have far more legitimate, rational options for minority student-athletes than you did when Walter went off to school.

I want to see young people consider all options, and go to the school that is best FOR THEM. An HBCU isn't a good option for every young Black kid, it isn't a great option for a significant percentage of us. That said, for a lot of youngsters, they need the things that an HBCU can provide.
 
Odds are they won't. You forget that these state flagship institutions represent an entire area, they have that name recognition. Sports are just a part of that brand. People forget that the alumni bases of these HBCUs are miserably small(and aging in a lot of respects), and that affects funding, that affects fan support, that affects the long term viability of these programs.

HBCUs serve an important societal purpose, but those institutions need to stop looking for the magic bullet, and concentrate on well managed, consistent growth. One 5 star athlete, who most likely is going to be there for 9 months isn't going to do anything. This is a great piece of PR for Howard, a **** fine school. That said, I'd be shocked if he ever played a minute for them.
I never said Maker going to Howard was a "magic bullet". I know it's illogical to say one kid making his choice has created a "seismic" shift, but it's logical to think that his choice could possibly(no matter how unlikely it presently seems) create one. I gotta disagree with you on the size of HBCU alumni bases. I'm aware of the slight decline(11%) in overall enrollment during the last decade, but I believe a spike will occur. I never spoke of the "magic bullet" and have disagreed when institutions(including my alma mater) reached for it in the past. I wholeheartedly agree with the concentration on well-managed, consistent growth in ALL facets of university affairs, but we're talking athletics so I'm keeping it there. I know it hasn't been there in the recent past(in nearly every aspect,) but **** it, I'm calling for them to start today. That, along with a consistent stream of talent, can turn their athletic departments around. I'm aware of the challenges faced by HBCUs on all fronts, but are we supposed to pack it in or make an effort to improve our institutions. Everyone knows the positive effects that a healthy athletic department can have on an institution. I never said it was a quick or an easy fix, but it is fixable. I'm curious, did you attend an HBCU?
 
A guy being on campus for 9 months does NOTHING for the long term viability of an institution. HBCUs keep reaching for magic bullets, instead of doing the things they should have done years ago. HBCUs take their sweet time in regards to upgrading tech, they missed the online education boat. HBCUs should have been the first on that boat, as a way to bring education to those that are poorly served by the current system. A lot of HBCUs have never truly evolved a rationale for their existence outside of "Come here, you're black and we are too". HBCUs love to throw around stuff like "Walter Payton came here and it didn't hurt him". Congrats, a guy that went to college before most of us were even born, in a vastly different climate managed to overcome the odds and succeed. Think about the following: the typical incoming college freshman wasn't even born when Sweetness was alive. Yes, places like Alabama haven't evolved, but you have far more legitimate, rational options for minority student-athletes than you did when Walter went off to school.

I want to see young people consider all options, and go to the school that is best FOR THEM. An HBCU isn't a good option for every young Black kid, it isn't a great option for a significant percentage of us. That said, for a lot of youngsters, they need the things that an HBCU can provide.
I can't and won't argue with pretty much all of what you said here. As much as I am an advocate for HBCUs, you'll never see me being against significant percentages of our our kids attending other institutions. But I'll ask again, why is it when a kid who fits into the bolded part of your post has an athletic recruitment profile of 3 stars or higher, HBCU is considered a dirty acronym? I LOVE to see our kids excel at other institutions(especially in academically), but I would love to see HBCUs once again become a viable option for talented black student-athletes...
 
I can't and won't argue with pretty much all of what you said here. As much as I am an advocate for HBCUs, you'll never see me being against significant percentages of our our kids attending other institutions. But I'll ask again, why is it when a kid who fits into the bolded part of your post has an athletic recruitment profile of 3 stars or higher, HBCU is considered a dirty acronym? I LOVE to see our kids excel at other institutions(especially in academically), but I would love to see HBCUs once again become a viable option for talented black student-athletes...


The reason why a lot of top end kids won't consider an HBCU is the same reason why most 5 stars won't consider going to Boston U or NJIT for sports. Athletically, most HBCUs are managed poorly, and I mean very poorly. It's not an accident that despite being in places where they have significant advantages over a lot of other midmajors(in basketball) and FCS schools(In football), they continue to pull up the rear in conference rankings. This is why I laugh when people actually believe that there are a ton of elite talents willing to go on 400 mile bus rides and receive second and third tier coaching.

As I said before, a lot of HBCUs have never come up with a sales pitch outside of "We're Black just like you". Yes, that worked when there weren't any options outside of the bubble, but that isn't the case anymore. If more HBCUs started building modern, well managed athletic departments, I believe that more developmental prospects would be willing to sign. That said, few HBCUs have shown any interest in building the infrastructure needed to be competitive in recruiting. Hence why the MEAC is disintegrating before our eyes. When I can say with a straight face that HBCUs can give top end FCS programs a run for their money on the football field(and in the board room)and aren't schools barely holding on at the D1 level in hoops, then we may be able to argue about increasing the talent pool.
 
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I never said Maker going to Howard was a "magic bullet". I know it's illogical to say one kid making his choice has created a "seismic" shift, but it's logical to think that his choice could possibly(no matter how unlikely it presently seems) create one. I gotta disagree with you on the size of HBCU alumni bases. I'm aware of the slight decline(11%) in overall enrollment during the last decade, but I believe a spike will occur. I never spoke of the "magic bullet" and have disagreed when institutions(including my alma mater) reached for it in the past. I wholeheartedly agree with the concentration on well-managed, consistent growth in ALL facets of university affairs, but we're talking athletics so I'm keeping it there. I know it hasn't been there in the recent past(in nearly every aspect,) but **** it, I'm calling for them to start today. That, along with a consistent stream of talent, can turn their athletic departments around. I'm aware of the challenges faced by HBCUs on all fronts, but are we supposed to pack it in or make an effort to improve our institutions. Everyone knows the positive effects that a healthy athletic department can have on an institution. I never said it was a quick or an easy fix, but it is fixable. I'm curious, did you attend an HBCU?

No I didn't, but I'm quite familiar with the unique challenges faced by those institutions due to having a lot of family members, a fair amount did attend HBCUs.

You are overrating what a decent athletic department does for a school. It's a fairly common misconception on this board, because people really think that athletics drive the bus of a University. An athletic department is the fancy bottle of wine on a shopping list, you can't build meals or a diet plan around that bottle. HBCUs are the parents on a budget, kids are hungry and crying. HBCUs desperately need the basics across the board, that bottle of wine isn't going to make one **** iota of difference.

No one is saying that HBCUs should fold up, but I find it weird that a lot of them refuse to move into the 21st century, they've refused to grow their donor bases by expanding their alumni pools. As I stated before, schools like FAMU and PVAMU should have been out in front of the online education revolution, it would have been a relatively lower cost way to expand the brand, bring more nontraditional students into the fold, and also get the money needed to grow the main campus. I look at schools like Liberty, that have grown exponentially thanks to online education, and I don't get why HBCUs couldn't have found a way to beat them to the punch.
 
Call me crazy, but maybe, juuust maybe if enough talented kids go to HBCUs, the major tv networks and apparel distributors, etc. will want to conduct business with those institutions???
No doubt. Gotta convince the kids first.

Almost 10 percent of the nfl hof are players from hbcus , including arguably 2 of the greatest at their position. Not sure many kids realize this.
 
No doubt. Gotta convince the kids first.

Almost 10 percent of the nfl hof are players from hbcus , including arguably 2 of the greatest at their position. Not sure many kids realize this.

Most of those HBCU HOFers played in an era in which black student athletes HAD NO CHOICE in regards to choosing a school. A lot of the HBCU glory days happened in an era where freedom of choice was nonexistent. While you still have a ton of schools that aren't enlightened, you also have a lot that do foster welcoming environments for all, and fully expect that their student body reflects this country.

Yes, Walter Payton and Jerry Rice played at HBCUs. The problem is that Payton and Rice are decades away from their HBCU playing days. Yes, you have Steve McNair and Michael Strahan, but they are few and far between. When one looks at other FCS conferences, HBCUs are not developing talent at the same level, and they have ready access to far more local talent than the typical FCS powerhouse.
 
Most of those HBCU HOFers played in an era in which black student athletes HAD NO CHOICE in regards to choosing a school. A lot of the HBCU glory days happened in an era where freedom of choice was nonexistent. While you still have a ton of schools that aren't enlightened, you also have a lot that do foster welcoming environments for all, and fully expect that their student body reflects this country.

Yes, Walter Payton and Jerry Rice played at HBCUs. The problem is that Payton and Rice are decades away from their HBCU playing days. Yes, you have Steve McNair and Michael Strahan, but they are few and far between. When one looks at other FCS conferences, HBCUs are not developing talent at the same level, and they have ready access to far more local talent than the typical FCS powerhouse.
I wouldn't say most of them played in an era where they had no choice. ****, T.O. just got in. It's not like these guys didn't have D1 options.

You can make the few and far between HOF argument literally for any conference. That's why it's the HOF. It is reserved strictly for the few and far between. Actually, you can make the few and far between argument with any conference when it comes to simply just getting to the league at all. But the fact that 17 underfunded schools that aren't D1 is resposible for nearly 10 % of that esteemed Gold Jacket fraternity is pretty impressive.

No one is making the argument either that HBCU's are developing talent at the same level as other conferences. That would be silly. But neither is the AAC or Sunbelt. Really, the only reasons to go to an HBCU over a D1 school right now is for the 3 P's (Pride, Playing Time, and *****). The point is, you can go to an HBCU, get on an NFL roster, make money, and have a decent career.

I think what we'll see in the next few years is HBCU's begin to become transfer destinations.
 
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Odds are they won't. You forget that these state flagship institutions represent an entire area, they have that name recognition. Sports are just a part of that brand. People forget that the alumni bases of these HBCUs are miserably small(and aging in a lot of respects), and that affects funding, that affects fan support, that affects the long term viability of these programs.

HBCUs serve an important societal purpose, but those institutions need to stop looking for the magic bullet, and concentrate on well managed, consistent growth. One 5 star athlete, who most likely is going to be there for 9 months isn't going to do anything. This is a great piece of PR for Howard, a **** fine school. That said, I'd be shocked if he ever played a minute for them.
I also think that everyone says the country is racist. Such as SEC schools. So if all the black talent goes else where and it hurts the sec and other major conferences. The viewer ship will go down ruining college football.
 
Keep thinking it’s not seismic. The world has changed over the last 2 months. There has been a mindshift, and I think this is just the beginning.

The #1 recruit for 2022 or 2023 says he wants to go to an HBCU too.

We'll see.

Things have changed as of now—but would hardly be shocked to see some regression in the overall movement.

At some point, people dancing and protesting on interstates comes to an end—as they run out of steam and cities run out of patience. (Seattle State Patrol already said they're re-opening the closed sections of the interstate days after a protester was run over and killed.“Blocking a freeway is a crime and no longer are we going to enable that criminal conduct to continue,” said State Patrol Capt. Ron Mead, who made the decision to no longer close the interstate. “We are not going to be allowing protesters to access the freeway unimpeded, and there are consequences for criminal conduct.)

People get charged up in the minute and emotion gets the better of them—but when it ultimately comes down to their personal self-sacrifice and major life decisions (which ultimately will be a drop in the water in regards to the current issues we're dealing with as a nation)—most will pull back from the decision and hope that someone else with less to lose will make the sacrifice. It's human nature.

Whether this kid sticks with Howard, or goes elsewhere—there won't be some seismic shift in kids not going to powerhouse universities and instead choosing a smaller black school. If anything, athletes will demand more power and more say at these traditional powerhouses and the Kentuckys and Dukes of the basketball world will wisely give these kids a platform to be seen and heard, allowing both sides to win.
 
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I wouldn't say most of them played in an era where they had no choice. ****, T.O. just got in. It's not like these guys didn't have D1 options.

You can make the few and far between HOF argument literally for any conference. That's why it's the HOF. It is reserved strictly for the few and far between. Actually, you can make the few and far between argument with any conference when it comes to simply just getting to the league at all. But the fact that 17 underfunded schools that aren't D1 is resposible for nearly 10 % of that esteemed Gold Jacket fraternity is pretty impressive.

No one is making the argument either that HBCU's are developing talent at the same level as other conferences. That would be silly. But neither is the AAC or Sunbelt. Really, the only reasons to go to an HBCU over a D1 school right now is for the 3 P's (Pride, Playing Time, and *****). The point is, you can go to an HBCU, get on an NFL roster, make money, and have a decent career.

I think what we'll see in the next few years is HBCU's begin to become transfer destinations.

TO didn't attend an HBCU. He attended UT-Chattanooga, which isn't an HBCU.

By the way, you can get laid at any school if you are a student-athlete.
 
Feel bad for those in the sports entertainment business, I think their jobs are about to get a lot more difficult.

Sports used to be the great escape, a pastime, a place to not worry about politics, race, and other heavy issues. It was the place to get away from those things and just enjoy life.

A significant portion of consumers are going to lose interest in this stuff. Nobody wants to get off a long day's work, sit down with their buddies and a few cold brews and be lectured about how ****** their grandfather's grandfather was. Look at what's happened to ESPN and SportsCenter since they started trying to become "socially conscious" instead of just playing sports highlights. Folks are going to find other pursuits.
 
Feel bad for those in the sports entertainment business, I think their jobs are about to get a lot more difficult.

Sports used to be the great escape, a pastime, a place to not worry about politics, race, and other heavy issues. It was the place to get away from those things and just enjoy life.

A significant portion of consumers are going to lose interest in this stuff. Nobody wants to get off a long day's work, sit down with their buddies and a few cold brews and be lectured about how ****** their grandfather's grandfather was. Look at what's happened to ESPN and SportsCenter since they started trying to become "socially conscious" instead of just playing sports highlights. Folks are going to find other pursuits.
COVID couldn’t have come at a worse time for them either.

There are a lot of diehards that will continue regardless, but I think a lot of casual fans realize life without sports isn’t much different and they don’t wanna deal with constant lecturing and politicizing.
 
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We'll see.

Things have changed as of now—but would hardly be shocked to see some regression in the overall movement.

At some point, people dancing and protesting on interstates comes to an end—as they run out of steam and cities run out of patience. (Seattle State Patrol already said they're re-opening the closed sections of the interstate days after a protester was run over and killed.“Blocking a freeway is a crime and no longer are we going to enable that criminal conduct to continue,” said State Patrol Capt. Ron Mead, who made the decision to no longer close the interstate. “We are not going to be allowing protesters to access the freeway unimpeded, and there are consequences for criminal conduct.)

People get charged up in the minute and emotion gets the better of them—but when it ultimately comes down to their personal self-sacrifice and major life decisions (which ultimately will be a drop in the water in regards to the current issues we're dealing with as a nation)—most will pull back from the decision and hope that someone else with less to lose will make the sacrifice. It's human nature.

Whether this kid sticks with Howard, or goes elsewhere—there won't be some seismic shift in kids not going to powerhouse universities and instead choosing a smaller black school. If anything, athletes will demand more power and more say at these traditional powerhouses and the Kentuckys and Dukes of the basketball world will wisely give these kids a platform to be seen and heard, allowing both sides to win.

Very good post. This is a very heated, emotional time. However, social media is so turbulent and the news cycle so violent, that this may not be a discussion 3-4 months from now. The appeal and branding of big time college ball (UNC, Kentucky, Duke, etc.) will be too much for kids--and they are kids--to overlook when BLM or issues about power structure are no longer in the forefront. I think you're right-many kids will not make that self-sacrifice when there is so much to lose about foregoing major college ball to advance social causes.
 
Most of those HBCU HOFers played in an era in which black student athletes HAD NO CHOICE in regards to choosing a school. A lot of the HBCU glory days happened in an era where freedom of choice was nonexistent. While you still have a ton of schools that aren't enlightened, you also have a lot that do foster welcoming environments for all, and fully expect that their student body reflects this country.

Yes, Walter Payton and Jerry Rice played at HBCUs. The problem is that Payton and Rice are decades away from their HBCU playing days. Yes, you have Steve McNair and Michael Strahan, but they are few and far between. When one looks at other FCS conferences, HBCUs are not developing talent at the same level, and they have ready access to far more local talent than the typical FCS powerhouse.
My brother I am in full agreement with the collective state of HBCU athletic departments. I've seen my own alma-mater mismanage theirs. When I entered college, our football team was a consistent 1-AA Playoff contender. We regressed to an FCS doormat(although it's looking like we're on our way back). I've seen us flub a potential move to 1-A(FBS) with juvenile-level incompetency. We've been hit with numerous major violations spanning across numerous sports(which costed us a possible chance at a playoff appearance this past season). And we're one of the "premier" institutions. I never mentioned it in this thread, as that is an entirely separate(but very relevant to this thread) and MAJOR issue. One that must be resolved FIRST if the future that is being debated here should ever come to fruition. However, I viewed this thread and presented my position in a vacuum...
 
TO didn't attend an HBCU. He attended UT-Chattanooga, which isn't an HBCU.

By the way, you can get laid at any school if you are a student-athlete.
You're right. Had a late night brain fart and was thinking TSU, which isn't actually in the MEAC if I recall.

And you can definitely get laid at any school. But they hitting different at the HBCU's, ijs.
 
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