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Orange Bowl Boys Recruiting Podcast (Follow the Leeds Thread)

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Kansas Cane said:
Mario reaching out back around the Michigan St game? That's wild. D$ called Mario to Miami back then, too.
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I've been trying to tell this to people for nearly a year now. Unfortunately, some people will only believe "news articles", and now that Manny Navarro and Bruce Feldman have written the "definitive" news article on how we didn't chase Mario until late, and it wasn't a done deal until the last couple of days, and assorted other inaccurate things about our involvement with Mario, it's going to be hard to convince people otherwise.

And don't get me wrong, Bruce was right on many many things in his article. We absolutely were not in play for Kiffin, it was ALWAYS Mario (or bust, but that was never going to happen short of a monumental change of heart on Mario's part).

I heard what was happening in September. Many others did as well. And, yes, then October and November happened. TVD happened. Manny "winning" happened. But the info I got in September, and the assurances I got all along, were very consistent.

We fired Beta Blake for a reason. Several reasons, actually, but one big one.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Crazy thing is, Adidas has drip. My homegirl used to work for them (just left), & she would be swagged out. Their NMD’s, Nite Joggers, Yeezys…I mean they have options available, but we just don’t see our boys in them.
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You and I have had this conversation...how many times now? The Ultraboosts have been great. The Alphabounces were nice. Everything else for Miami has been straight trash. I bought some (gray) NMDs that have orange and green inserts, just to support UM, but why can't we get a UM NMD?

And while I could understand it if Kanye doesn't want to put school logos on the Yeezy, you can still low-key do some nice colorways. Or else make it a "players-only" special edition. Though I'm sure that @SWFLHurricane would end up getting his hands on a pair...
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I've been trying to tell this to people for nearly a year now. Unfortunately, some people will only believe "news articles", and now that Manny Navarro and Bruce Feldman have written the "definitive" news article on how we didn't chase Mario until late, and it wasn't a done deal until the last couple of days, and assorted other inaccurate things about our involvement with Mario, it's going to be hard to convince people otherwise.

And don't get me wrong, Bruce was right on many many things in his article. We absolutely were not in play for Kiffin, it was ALWAYS Mario (or bust, but that was never going to happen short of a monumental change of heart on Mario's part).

I heard what was happening in September. Many others did as well. And, yes, then October and November happened. TVD happened. Manny "winning" happened. But the info I got in September, and the assurances I got all along, were very consistent.

We fired Beta Blake for a reason. Several reasons, actually, but one big one.
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Bro, I was about to get on our official Miami Adidas site, how they use us to throw in anything that’s remotely Orange or Green w/o The U Brand to offload it. Our site literally has highlighter orange & forest green Adidas chit posed as Canes gear. That’s some of those most disrespectful, asinine chit I’ve ever seen. What we got, K; like 10-12 U branded items on their site, w/ another 8 to 10 Adidas’ Green & Orange items used for purchase?
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
You and I have had this conversation...how many times now? The Ultraboosts have been great. The Alphabounces were nice. Everything else for Miami has been straight trash. I bought some (gray) NMDs that have orange and green inserts, just to support UM, but why can't we get a UM NMD?

And while I could understand it if Kanye doesn't want to put school logos on the Yeezy, you can still low-key do some nice colorways. Or else make it a "players-only" special edition. Though I'm sure that @SWFLHurricane would end up getting his hands on a pair...
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Not me....I'm strictly a Nike guy....with a sprinkling of Avia....
 
bobbydigius said:
We 100% overrate our talent but I think it goes deeper than that. We also have had a developmental issue with kids, we were just behind in quantity and quality of coaches. I do agree that its very telling on the fact we went to the portal as hard as we did but I think that is more so if we want to compete against the ATMs and Clemson's on our schedule from a talent perspective. I also believe that we are more than adequate in terms of talent as it pertains to the rest of our schedule ie the **** stain that is the Coastal division. We have to not only start winning games where we have a talent advantage but we need to start dominating those games.
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I am in agreement on most of the above. I also agree, at least from an aspirational perspective, that we need to start leg-whipping the Coastal (so long as there is a Coastal). And it definitely does not help that we have had clown show HCs and assistant coaches for most of the last 20 years.

For some perspective, here's Miami, Pitt, UNC, and Clemson's 247 total points for the class w/ the recruit average in parenthesis for 2017 through 2021:

+++++ MIA++++++ PITT ++++++ UNC ++++++ Clemson
2021- 266.08 (90.51) 209.14 (86.64) 256.55 (90.87) 291.06 (94.01)
2020- 254.92 (90.05) 192.59 (86.07) 256.79 (88.88) 309.57 (93.44)
2019- 222.07 (88.07) 182.77 (84.91) 218.57 (86.23) 275.55 (89.76)
2018- 280.87 (90.99) 193.19 (85.84) 232.27 (87.80) 283.67 (93.45)
2017- 248.67 (88.68) 202.12 (84.94) 207.81 (86.43) 238.91 (92.10...they only took 14 HS kids)

Clemson held the top spot in the ACC for all but one of those years (3rd in 2017... when they took 10 fewer kids than FSU and UM), UM and UNC were usually somewhere between 2nd and 4th in the conference (w/ a couple of 5th place finishes from UNC), and Pitt is typically somewhere in the middle third of the conference (ranging between 5th to 10th). So on the surface, Miami looks to have a legit talent advantage over every team no named Clemson.

But attrition and straight misses have also kicked our butts. Looking at that 2019 class (who should be upper classmen contributors at this point), our top 2 recruits transferred out (Jeremiah Payton and Christian Williams). We also lost Cameron Williams, Larry Hodges, and Jalar Holley to transfer, and Jason Blissett retired from football. ElGammal isn't on the roster and didn't play a single snap in two seasons. And Sam Brooks has been AWOL this Spring.

Our 2018 class was also fool's gold (and they should have been dominating for us last season), where each of our top 5 recruits either transferred, underperformed, or left early (Lingard, Jordan, Silvera, Pope, J. Williams). Hightower and Hall were two other top-ranked guys who transferred after failing to live up to their ranking. Cam Harris left with eligibility (was basically chased out by some fans). Ezzard was a (low) 4* who transferred out. Nigel Bethel, Patrick Joyner, Dee Wiggins... all transferred and underperformed.

2017 looks rough, too, with a top 6 of Jeff Thomas (suspension + dismissal + left early), Donaldson (did not live up to the hype of a top 75 player), D.J. Johnson (transferred), Perry (god bless him, he tried at the end), Bandy (solid but still left after 3 seasons with eligibility remaining), and Herbert (pure liability on the OL).

What does this all mean? Should we be doing better in the Coastal than we have been doing on sheer talent alone? Almost certainly yes. Is our talent so much better that we should be dominating all of those games? I am not convinced that's the case considering the attrition and lack of performance. Can we do better? It's hard to put on a dominant performance with only a marginal talent advantage. And it's nearly impossible with a coaching disadvantage on top of that. The latter has been erased. And Mario will eventually change the former around, but it's going to take time. Gun to my head, how many regular season wins do I expect for 2022? 9 wins, and we avoid blowout losses (i.e., losing by 17 points or more). But, I wouldn't be surprised if we only won 8 games, or if we managed to win 10 games.
 
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No_Fly_Zone said:
I am in agreement on most of the above. I also agree, at least from an aspirational perspective, that we need to start leg-whipping the Coastal (so long as there is a Coastal). And it definitely does not help that we have had clown show HCs and assistant coaches for most of the last 20 years.

For some perspective, here's Miami, Pitt, UNC, and Clemson's 247 total points for the class w/ the recruit average in parenthesis for 2017 through 2021:

+++++ MIA++++++ PITT ++++++ UNC ++++++ Clemson
2021- 266.08 (90.51) 209.14 (86.64) 256.55 (90.87) 291.06 (94.01)
2020- 254.92 (90.05) 192.59 (86.07) 256.79 (88.88) 309.57 (93.44)
2019- 222.07 (88.07) 182.77 (84.91) 218.57 (86.23) 275.55 (89.76)
2018- 280.87 (90.99) 193.19 (85.84) 232.27 (87.80) 283.67 (93.45)
2017- 248.67 (88.68) 202.12 (84.94) 207.81 (86.43) 238.91 (92.10...they only took 14 HS kids)

Clemson held the top spot in the ACC for all but one of those years (3rd in 2017... when they took 10 fewer kids than FSU and UM), UM and UNC were usually somewhere between 2nd and 4th in the conference (w/ a couple of 5th place finishes from UNC), and Pitt is typically somewhere in the middle third of the conference (ranging between 5th to 10th). So on the surface, Miami looks to have a legit talent advantage over every team no named Clemson.

But attrition and straight misses have also kicked our butts. Looking at that 2019 class (who should be upper classmen contributors at this point), our top 2 recruits transferred out (Jeremiah Payton and Christian Williams). We also lost Cameron Williams, Larry Hodges, and Jalar Holley to transfer, and Jason Blissett retired from football. ElGammal isn't on the roster and didn't play a single snap in two seasons. And Sam Brooks has been AWOL this Spring.

Our 2018 class was also fool's gold (and they should have been dominating for us last season), where each of our top 5 recruits either transferred, underperformed, or left early (Lingard, Jordan, Silvera, Pope, J. Williams). Hightower and Hall were two other top-ranked guys who transferred after failing to live up to their ranking. Cam Harris left with eligibility (was basically chased out by some fans). Ezzard was a (low) 4* who transferred out. Nigel Bethel, Patrick Joyner, Dee Wiggins... all transferred and underperformed.

2017 looks rough, too, with a top 6 of Jeff Thomas (suspension + dismissal + left early), Donaldson (did not live up to the hype of a top 75 player), D.J. Johnson (transferred), Perry (god bless him, he tried at the end), Bandy (solid but still left after 3 seasons with eligibility remaining), and Herbert (pure liability on the OL).

What does this all mean? Should we be doing better in the Coastal than we have been doing on sheer talent alone? Almost certainly yes. Is our talent so much better that we should be dominating all of those games? I am not convinced that's the case considering the attrition and lack of performance. Can we do better? It's hard to put on a dominant performance with only a marginal talent advantage. And it's nearly impossible with a coaching disadvantage on top of that. The latter has been erased. And Mario will eventually change the former around, but it's going to take time. Gun to my head, how many regular season wins do I expect for 2022? 9 wins, and we avoid blowout losses (i.e., losing by 17 points or more). But, I wouldn't be surprised if we only won 8 games, or if we managed to win 10 games.
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Man, I’ve been beating this same drum w/ the same data since, since for a min.

On paper, yes, we should be running away w/ The Coastal, but that narrative have been in play since 2004! Like I’ve said b4 when I hear Tobacco Rd hates us; if they do, it’s our fault. While the SEC was trying to poach us in the early 90’s, we maintained our Independent status b4 helping launch The Big East Football Conference.

When we joined the ACC, we were a blown whistle away from being back-to-back Nat’l Champions, & fresh off vying for another Nat’l title before starting our November Woes in 2003, but we still won a NY6 bowl. We were the biggest the coup for the ACC, & they accommodated by putting us directly across from FSU in the lesser of the two divisions. How did we reward them? Chit the bed every yr sans 2017.

Instead of elevating their status, we added to its misery. We’ve been the best team on paper every year in The Coastal expect for “The Cloud” yrs & have nothing to show for it. The ? is/was similar to the chicken/egg theory. Have we been less than stellar due to players or coaching/development? I’m of the opinion that’s it’s a combo of both, w/ 80% being coaching, development, culture & the other 20% on recruiting.

I think we had some str8 misses who were highly ranked due to shorts & t’s vs. in game abilities. However, I also think we had some guys here that probably, & most likely would’ve faired better at another program. The problem is, u can’t have both. Some guys can coach regardless of what the talent pool is, while others r only great based upon the talent…we’ve had neither. Lol.

So when I look at our roster, I see some holes, holes that have been plugged, but not enough plugs. I see a culture issue that’s needs to be reaffirmed & re-established. I see depth at some positions & a lack-of at others. I see guys who r turning a corner, but not completely. So no, it wouldn’t shock me if we won 8-9 games in yr 1, have a great class come in yr 1 (full cycle), & take off yr 2. If Mario wins 10+ in yr 1, I’m elated; but, I’m not holding his feet to the fire to undo almost 2 decades worth of **** poor results on & off the field, despite the talent.
 
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Rellyrell said:
Man, I’ve been beating this same drum w/ the same data since, since for a min.

On paper, yes, we should be running away w/ The Coastal, but that narrative have been in play since 2004! Like I’ve said b4 when I hear Tobacco Rd hates us; if they do, it’s our fault. While the SEC was trying to poach us in the early 90’s, we maintained our Independent status b4 helping launch The Big East Football Conference.

When we joined the ACC, we were a blown whistle away from being back-to-back Nat’l Champions, & fresh off vying for another Nat’l title before starting our November Woes in 2003, but we still won a NY6 bowl. We were the biggest the coup for the ACC, & they accommodated by putting us directly across from FSU in the lesser of the two divisions. How did we reward them? Chit the bed every yr sans 2017.

Instead of elevating their status, we added to its misery. We’ve been the best team on paper every year in The Coastal expect for “The Cloud” yrs & have nothing to show for it. The ? is/was similar to the chicken/egg theory. Have we been less than stellar due to players or coaching/development? I’m of the opinion that’s it’s a combo of both, w/ 80% being coaching, development, culture & the other 20% on recruiting.

I think we had some str8 misses who were highly ranked due to shorts & t’s vs. in game abilities. However, I also think we had some guys here that probably, & most likely would’ve faired better at another program. The problem is, u can’t have both. Some guys can coach regardless of what the talent pool is, while others r only great based upon the talent…we’ve had neither. Lol.

So when I look at our roster, I see some holes, holes that have been plugged, but not enough plugs. I see a culture issue that’s needs to be reaffirmed & re-established. I see depth at some positions & a lack-of at others. I see guys who r turning a corner, but not completely. So no, it wouldn’t shock me if we won 8-9 games in yr 1, have a great class come in yr 1 (full cycle), & take off yr 2. If Mario wins 10+ in yr 1, I’m elated; but, I’m not holding his feet to the fire to undo almost 2 decades worth of **** poor results on & off the field, despite the talent.
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We’ve all been scratching our head into why on paper for so many years after so many coaching staffs has this team been underachieving for so long.
From coaching to evaluations to leaving early for the draft it seems we keep going in circles to figure it out.

The only constant has been the former players saying one thing:
“Until they change who’s in that building (AD and his staff) it doesn’t matter who the coach is”.

However, nobody has ever asked “well how much influence does that office have onto what goes on with the football team?

What was the reason we’ve lost to acc teams that we out recruited by a mile? Mark Richt coached a team that had 9 players drafted and we won the coastal (finally).
But the 2013 squad was way more talented imo.

What was so **** toxic at the admin level that it affected performance on the field?
The teams we lost to in that time span (minibus the frontrunners) didn’t have a huge or accomplished staff. Yet we kept dropping games to average or below average teams.
 
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