On Emmanuel Karnley...

[DTP]

I don't believe anybody is mad he's leaving. But him leaving (and the rationale provided) seems to indicate he should have never been brought in. Which is what those people were mad about when we signed him. And then were told we shouldn't be mad because [insert whatever stupid bull**** they were saying].

I really don’t have an issue with it. I was never super high on him to begin with but they were desperate for corners, so they brought a bunch of them in. They let them battle but out in spring and the bottom guy gets bumped out. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. I was surprised when I opened this thread and saw people were disappointed. I didn’t think anyone actually liked the original pick up. I figured people would be happy to see him go.

 

[joseermonfils]

What does that have to do with elite?

I consider Mario elite..let’s be honest UM does have a lot working against it (conference, sucked for 20 years, no high draft picks, etc) and Mario still has been keeping up and signing high ranked kids..I think if Mario was at LSU or something he would sign top 3 classes consistently if you want to talk roster management or evaluations that’s a different story

 

[cway313]

I consider Mario elite..let’s be honest UM does have a lot working against it (conference, sucked for 20 years, no high draft picks, etc) and Mario still has been keeping up and signing high ranked kids..I think if Mario was at LSU or something he would sign top 3 classes consistently if you want to talk roster management or evaluations that’s a different story

I'll disagree, He has not signed a single 5* Skill player in 4 years. He has only signed 1 potential 1st rd pick out of high school. Class rankings aren't important to me, but 1 top 5 class in 4 years is elite? Mario is a relentless and stubborn recruiter. Mario has not been elite here but he has been better.

 

[STG]

I'll disagree, He has not signed a single 5* Skill player in 4 years. He has only signed 1 potential 1st rd pick out of high school. Class rankings aren't important to me, but 1 top 5 class in 4 years is elite? Mario is a relentless and stubborn recruiter. Mario has not been elite here but he has been better.

I guess it all depends on what someone considers "elite." For me, that's delivering a top 5 class consistently and signing the most impactful players (top 100). By my standards, he is not elite. As you mentioned, he has "elite" traits (relentless, hard working, stubborn) etc., but that hasn't translated to "elite" results.

At Oregon he never produced a top 5 class. His classes finished 6th, 7th and 13th twice. At Miami, one top 5 class thus far. And that class was 10th in average player rating which I consider more important because it shows the quality of a class top to bottom. So in 7 classes, one top 5 result. Doesn't qualify as elite for me.

This is ELITE recruiting. Signed top 100 players the last 3 years.

Alabama: 31
Georgia: 30
Texas: 24
Ohio State: 21
Oregon: 17

Second Tier (not bad, just not elite)
Miami: 12

 

[cway313]

I guess it all depends on what someone considers "elite." For me, that's delivering a top 5 class consistently and signing the most impactful players (top 100). By my standards, he is not elite. As you mentioned, he has "elite" traits (relentless, hard working, stubborn) etc., but that hasn't translated to "elite" results.

At Oregon he never produced a top 5 class. His classes finished 6th, 7th and 13th twice. At Miami, one top 5 class thus far. And that class was 10th in average player rating which I consider more important because it shows the quality of a class top to bottom. So in 7 classes, one top 5 result. Doesn't qualify as elite for me.

This is ELITE recruiting. Signed top 100 players the last 3 years.

Alabama: 31
Georgia: 30
Texas: 24
Ohio State: 21
Oregon: 17

Second Tier (not bad, just not elite)
Miami: 12

The reason I don't put a lot of credence into class rankings is because it doesn't tell the whole story. You can sign a surplus of kids and the ranking will go up as you illustrated. You can also sign 15 DE's and land a top 5 class. Elite has to mean you are getting the top of the board at nearly every position not just 1 or 2 positions when it's personal.

 

[STG]

The reason I don't put a lot of credence into class rankings is because it doesn't tell the whole story. You can sign a surplus of kids and the ranking will go up as you illustrated. You can also sign 15 DE's and land a top 5 class. Elite has to mean you are getting the top of the board at nearly every position not just 1 or 2 positions when it's personal.

Hence why I mentioned average player rating is what I look at more and without question more important. Shows the true quality of a class. When you look at that number for Mario, in his 7 full classes between Oregon and Miami, he is barely recruiting in the top 10. He never signs enough top 100 players and always signs way too many non blue chip prospects.

Again, very good recruiter but not elite.

 

[RealRussellPumps]

I guess it all depends on what someone considers "elite." For me, that's delivering a top 5 class consistently and signing the most impactful players (top 100). By my standards, he is not elite. As you mentioned, he has "elite" traits (relentless, hard working, stubborn) etc., but that hasn't translated to "elite" results.

At Oregon he never produced a top 5 class. His classes finished 6th, 7th and 13th twice. At Miami, one top 5 class thus far. And that class was 10th in average player rating which I consider more important because it shows the quality of a class top to bottom. So in 7 classes, one top 5 result. Doesn't qualify as elite for me.

This is ELITE recruiting. Signed top 100 players the last 3 years.

Alabama: 31
Georgia: 30
Texas: 24
Ohio State: 21
Oregon: 17

Second Tier (not bad, just not elite)
Miami: 12

There's a reason that those 5 schools are consistently in the mix for the Natty each year. The proof is in the pudding. Sure you have your yearly team like Washington that makes some noise that doesn't recruit at an elite level, but that's a blip and then turns into them falling back down to the norm the next year in most cases. I keep seeing people say spend on the portal instead of HS, but the truth is, you have to spend in both. Spend on recruiting classes and the spend to supplement your roster with top end proven guys in the portal.

 

[joseermonfils]

I'll disagree, He has not signed a single 5* Skill player in 4 years. He has only signed 1 potential 1st rd pick out of high school. Class rankings aren't important to me, but 1 top 5 class in 4 years is elite? Mario is a relentless and stubborn recruiter. Mario has not been elite here but he has been better.

So who would you consider elite? Give me an example..because I think you are looking at the results of recruiting rather than just purely recruiting

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

So who would you consider elite? Give me an example..because I think you are looking at the results of recruiting rather than just purely recruiting

Don't even do this and just let this stupid *** thread die, along with Karnley's Miami career. There are 700 better things to discuss than what's going on in this thread.

 

[cway313]

So who would you consider elite? Give me an example..because I think you are looking at the results of recruiting rather than just purely recruiting

Oregon is borderline but trending in that direction. If you want to say elite for the ACC then I would agree.

 

[JHallCanes]

Forget elite

Mario is a GENERATIONAL recruiter

 

[gacaneaddict]

I guess it all depends on what someone considers "elite." For me, that's delivering a top 5 class consistently and signing the most impactful players (top 100). By my standards, he is not elite. As you mentioned, he has "elite" traits (relentless, hard working, stubborn) etc., but that hasn't translated to "elite" results.

At Oregon he never produced a top 5 class. His classes finished 6th, 7th and 13th twice. At Miami, one top 5 class thus far. And that class was 10th in average player rating which I consider more important because it shows the quality of a class top to bottom. So in 7 classes, one top 5 result. Doesn't qualify as elite for me.

This is ELITE recruiting. Signed top 100 players the last 3 years.

Alabama: 31
Georgia: 30
Texas: 24
Ohio State: 21
Oregon: 17

Second Tier (not bad, just not elite)
Miami: 12

He was on track to sign a top 5 class at Oregon when he left to come to Miami. He was going to have an OL class of Kelvin Banks and Josh Connerly. He was doing this at Oregon before NIL had become pay to play and was open and not illegal also.

I feel sometimes we forget where we are in the pecking order of college football.

We have been a middling ACC program for basically 20 years. I mid level ACC program. We have only started treating the football program like a top 20 program for 3 years now?

Not only do we have to overcome 20 years of sucking, but now the conference issue is being used to stack against us also. It's becoming harder not easier IMO.

 

[grover]

Karnley struggled on anything in-breaking on film, was good at carrying vertical.

When Miami got players that were better in the portal (especially Lucas) that was it for Karnley.

To me, it's a good thing that they've upgraded the room to a place a guy like this knows he needs to portal again to get on the field.

I liken it to the NFL Draft, where you know you're only going to hit on 50-60% of your picks for any number of reasons. If you need three corners, you need to bring 5-6 and let the players decide it among themselves. Too often teams are afraid to "plan to fail" by building in a percentage you know wont work out.

It's smart to over sign on problem positions and either have depth or the top players find their way on field and others leave again. It doesn't even mean Karnley is a bad player, he's just not good enough to start here any longer.

100%. As capitalists, every American should know that competition forces excellence. Unfortunately still happening. We have created depth of talent and forced competition at several positions. But not at DT or S, are at risk for backsliding at WR, and our LB evals have been off so even though we have the numbers, we need to overload there.

 

[STG]

He was on track to sign a top 5 class at Oregon when he left to come to Miami. He was going to have an OL class of Kelvin Banks and Josh Connerly. He was doing this at Oregon before NIL had become pay to play and was open and not illegal also.

I feel sometimes we forget where we are in the pecking order of college football.

We have been a middling ACC program for basically 20 years. I mid level ACC program. We have only started treating the football program like a top 20 program for 3 years now?

Not only do we have to overcome 20 years of sucking, but now the conference issue is being used to stack against us also. It's becoming harder not easier IMO.

IDC what he was on track for, he didn't. And you nor I have any idea where the class would have finished. With that being said, you are trying to point to one top 5 class he never signed, yet ignore 4 classes he actually signed that were not top 5 and two that finished 13th. Why do you conveniently ignore the actual results? Hmmm, could it be because it doesn't support your argument?

Second, do you actually believe that Oregon wasn't paying guys under the table during his time there? Because I can tell you for a fact they were. And they have some of the biggest and deepest bags in the game, which gave him an upper hand at that time. NIL has leveled the playing field more. Not to mention, when he was at Oregon his biggest comp USC was a **** show. Making recruiting on the west coast even easier.

Lastly, stop with the **** excuses. It makes no difference what we have been in the past. Kids don't make choices anymore simply on what programs are winning anymore. It's almost all about the bag now. Who is going to enrich them the most. We witness that every year now.

The fact that a HC, who has received more resources than ALL previous HCs at UM combined, still has people making excuses for him in year 4 is pure comedy.

 

[gacaneaddict]

IDC what he was on track for, he didn't. And you nor I have any idea where the class would have finished. With that being said, you are trying to point to one top 5 class he never signed, yet ignore 4 classes he actually signed that were not top 5 and two that finished 13th. Why do you conveniently ignore the actual results? Hmmm, could it be because it doesn't support your argument?

Second, do you actually believe that Oregon wasn't paying guys under the table during his time there? Because I can tell you for a fact they were. And they have some of the biggest and deepest bags in the game, which gave him an upper hand at that time. NIL has leveled the playing field more. Not to mention, when he was at Oregon his biggest comp USC was a **** show. Making recruiting on the west coast even easier.

Lastly, stop with the **** excuses. It makes no difference what we have been in the past. Kids don't make choices anymore simply on what programs are winning anymore. It's almost all about the bag now. Who is going to enrich them the most. We witness that every year now.

The fact that a HC, who has received more resources than ALL previous HCs at UM combined, still has people making excuses for him in year 4 is pure comedy.

Funny that he was right on the line of signing a top 5 class twice, and then he was going to sign a top 5 class he walked out on, that doesn't strengthen your argument. I would say signing top 6 -7 class is elite out of 130 teams, so I disagree that it HAS to be top 5 to be elite.

I'm sure Oregon was, but not anymore than Texas, Alabama, Georgia, etc..So what makes elite recruiter, paying more under table or actually recruiting? I'm not sure I am tracking. So its all about money not who can recruit? If that is case then why are we having the discussion over who is and isn't an "elite recruiter"? It should be who has the most money ranked in order, and align expectations accordingly.

Facts don't care about your little feelings about Mario. Miami has sucked compared to the programs being mentioned for better part of 20 years, and didn't invest into their football program until basically 2022. Absolute 100% factual.

Again no one is saying Mario is perfect, he has flaws. He is a good football coach though that is doing a good job here right now. You have to see how he can manage the next few years to see whether he can have ultimate success.

Vegas had Miami win total at 9 last season, and it's at 8.5 right now, but we got you who wants to send Mario packing if he wins 10, but doesn't reach the ACC title game.

 

[joseermonfils]

View attachment 323617
Oregon is borderline but trending in that direction. If you want to say elite for the ACC then I would agree.

I think all of these schools recruit themselves except Oregon..but to me Mario/Miami needs more a track record than anything else

 

[Angry Ibis]

Funny that he was right on the line of signing a top 5 class twice, and then he was going to sign a top 5 class he walked out on, that doesn't strengthen your argument. I would say signing top 6 -7 class is elite out of 130 teams, so I disagree that it HAS to be top 5 to be elite.

I'm sure Oregon was, but not anymore than Texas, Alabama, Georgia, etc..So what makes elite recruiter, paying more under table or actually recruiting? I'm not sure I am tracking. So its all about money not who can recruit? If that is case then why are we having the discussion over who is and isn't an "elite recruiter"? It should be who has the most money ranked in order, and align expectations accordingly.

Facts don't care about your little feelings about Mario. Miami has sucked compared to the programs being mentioned for better part of 20 years, and didn't invest into their football program until basically 2022. Absolute 100% factual.

Again no one is saying Mario is perfect, he has flaws. He is a good football coach though that is doing a good job here right now. You have to see how he can manage the next few years to see whether he can have ultimate success.

Vegas had Miami win total at 9 last season, and it's at 8.5 right now, but we got you who wants to send Mario packing if he wins 10, but doesn't reach the ACC title game.

So Mario was brought in and given the most resources ever for Miami to win 8.5 games a year?



*For those suffering slurping addiction, please call 1-900-MyMario (Disclaimer: Charges may apply. This is not a real helpline.)

 

[Angry Ibis]

I think all of these schools recruit themselves except Oregon..but to me Mario/Miami needs more a track record than anything else

So the 2022 and 2023 corchings (2024 folding) did not help set a track record for success?

 

[jsy]

was his NIL the reason we lost that CB from northwestern that went to florida?

 

[STG]

Funny that he was right on the line of signing a top 5 class twice, and then he was going to sign a top 5 class he walked out on, that doesn't strengthen your argument. I would say signing top 6 -7 class is elite out of 130 teams, so I disagree that it HAS to be top 5 to be elite.

I'm sure Oregon was, but not anymore than Texas, Alabama, Georgia, etc..So what makes elite recruiter, paying more under table or actually recruiting? I'm not sure I am tracking. So its all about money not who can recruit? If that is case then why are we having the discussion over who is and isn't an "elite recruiter"? It should be who has the most money ranked in order, and align expectations accordingly.

Facts don't care about your little feelings about Mario. Miami has sucked compared to the programs being mentioned for better part of 20 years, and didn't invest into their football program until basically 2022. Absolute 100% factual.

Again no one is saying Mario is perfect, he has flaws. He is a good football coach though that is doing a good job here right now. You have to see how he can manage the next few years to see whether he can have ultimate success.

Vegas had Miami win total at 9 last season, and it's at 8.5 right now, but we got you who wants to send Mario packing if he wins 10, but doesn't reach the ACC title game.

Again, your argument includes classes he NEVER signed. You lost right there. And you again conveniently ignore his two 13th ranked classes at Oregon. And he just had another 13th ranked class this past year. So in 7 full classes between Oregon and here, he has had 3 classes outside the top 10. There is NOTHING elite about that.

Speaking about the 2025 class, he delivered that class with the best team in the past 10 years, the #1 offense in the country, the #1 pick in the draft, a 1st team AA WR, top 3 TE, top 5 RB and very good OL. He had all that to sell, yet he signed 1 top 100 player and not a single skill position player in the top 100. Those results in year 3, with his best season by far. Again, elite results!

And my feelings have nothing to do with anything. The results speak for themselves. I actually use real results and data, while you use make believe **** that never happened.

Your last paragraph says it all. Not only are you the ultimate apologist, you are okay if in year 4, with top 10 resources in the entire country, we not win the ACC, but perfectly fine not even making the championship game. All while SMU, Louisville and North Carolina have made the game the past 3 years.

ELITE, ELITE, ELITE!