forums

Matt Doherty on Diaz per Miami Herald

Tell ya what.....Take 31 schollies...No TV or Bowl for a yr from Manny....Murder of an up and coming LBer....and in 4-5 yrs equal what Butch compiled in the same amount of time...and (P.S....Manny has alottt more talent than what Butch was handed in 95)...
 
Advertisement
caneinorlando said:
Every one of them were Evaluated..Recruited....Signed, and Coached by Butch....Alot of them were 2 & 3* Kids....
Only a Fool would argue with that Plethora of Success....
View attachment 78253
Click to expand...

I never said Butch Davis wasn't a solid coach. But does he deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Jimmy Johnson, Howard Schnellenberger? Is Butch still pumping 17 players in the 1st round into the NFL? Sometimes things are situational, Butch was the Guy in the right situation. The staff he had was Great. Chip Kelly left Oregon and what has he done since. He thought he was a Nick Saban, Jimmy Johnson type, he wasn't. Jimmy Johnson is loved everywhere from different teams. Howard Schnellenberger is the Pioneer that's the only reason I give him a notch on Butch. If Manny Diaz gets More Rings than Butch and doesn't have the talent getting drafted as high as 2001 is he not as good? Butch left Miami... now hes at FIU. If I'm crazy and am sooo stupid. WHY DID THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES PICK MARK RICHT? then they picked Manny Diaz. Butch Davis is a Jimmy Johnson student but the student didn't surpass the master. He left the Hurricanes during a boosters controversy and then left North Carolina with a Boosters controversy.
 
I've said this a handful of times since he arrived, but found a thread from last season where I wrote it on the board. I'll stick to this for the same reasoning I previously offered: I just think Diaz's skill set fits better as a HC than as a DC. He's an aggressive dude who wants to anticipate (sometimes recklessly, but showed big adjustments with that tendency in '18). If all we do is reflect that, it's a significant step forward.

diaz better as HC.png
 
caneinorlando said:
Manny put 25 1st rounders into the NFL already??....Cot ****....I must be slipping
Click to expand...


Well, they both got the Miami HC job at about the same age. Both had been assistant coaches until then except for Manny’s luminary multi-week tour at Temple as HC. Surely Manny’s previous work and DC at Miami much had been much more sussessful than Butch to create this stature of greatness. Let’s see, we’ll he won a Coastal Title. Hum, dang, Butch lucked into the peaty NC ring plus two other NC title games. Okay, it must be thier careers outside of Miami. Butch roads JJ coattails while Manny left his job at ESPN tombreak out on his own. Did well enough to land DC job at UT. That was a very big gig. Gettting fired during his first year left want blanket on it but still. By the same age, Butch managed to squeeze in a cou0e Super Bowl rings. I’m think Butch, at the same age kind of leaves Manny on a dust covered road.

One thing shines bright for Manny, the TOC. That was genius. Changing it seems to have been a mistake. Hope that does become a habit. Sefl-thinking genius type have the habit of changing things to prove themselves. Now, Manny has a chance to do what Butch cpscrewed up, win his own Title at Miami. I pray he does because I want another badly. If he does, I will forget he is a nole and sign his praises. Until then give the man space and stop proclaiming him goat. Those of us who remember great coaches will not then be compelled to defend them.
 
LuCane said:
I've said this a handful of times since he arrived, but found a thread from last season where I wrote it on the board. I'll stick to this for the same reasoning I previously offered: I just think Diaz's skill set fits better as a HC than as a DC. He's an aggressive dude who wants to anticipate (sometimes recklessly, but showed big adjustments with that tendency in '18). If all we do is reflect that, it's a significant step forward.

View attachment 78279
Click to expand...

I’m on board with this take.

All I’ve really wanted to see was Miami be aggressive both offensively and defensively. We’d have won a lot more games the past 15 years.
 
Advertisement
TheOriginalCane said:
It's just sad that make yourself the center of this issue. That you focus on how people treat you.

You simply don't understand or have knowledge of what Butch did. I do. I was there at the time. What Butch accomplished is very similar to what Schnellenberger accomplished, in both substance and style. And, yes, JJ and Drunken Dennis and Coker played for more titles.

But anyone who doesn't put Butch ahead of Drunken Dennis and Coker simply doesn't understand all of the little things that Butch did (and big things too) to turn Miami around and to lay such a solid foundation that a journeyman assistant coach (Coker) could come within 1 bad penalty of back-to-back national championships.

Great coach. Top 3 at Miami, with Howard and JJ. Undisputed by anyone who was close to the program at the time.

And F the Board of Trustees.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything your saying. You are Correct. I think this is a misunderstanding. I said Butch is Lesser than JJ and HS. Hes in the tier right under. Butch Davis did learn from JJ being under him for years. I'm not saying Butch Didn't do great things at Miami, I'm saying Miami helped Butch Davis do great things but yes Butch Davis is the one that capitalized. I never said Coker or Dennis were as good as Butch because Coker was the players coach, Not the one coaching the players. I guess I just put Jimmy Johnson in such elite company its insulting to think of 1 of his students being on his level. Jimmy Johnson did make things easier on Butch in miami
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Again, what idiotic commentary. Absolutely no analysis of actual facts. "Miami had talent". When? When Butch started? When he had nearly 30 scholarship reductions? When he was taking guys who were NOT 4 and 5 star blue-chippers?

"Would he have done that at any Power 5 in the country?" Sure, if he used his same methodologies, yes.

"I thought the University of Miami has been down because we've been cheap with coaches". You are nuts. Delusional. Completely untrue.

Belichick and Butch"both coached the Cleveland Browns in the same era? Really? Belichick coached the original Cleveland Browns, who then packed up and moved to Baltimore where they won a Super Bowl. Butch Davis had to coach the "expansion" Cleveland Browns franchise.

Seriously, you are completely clueless when it comes to this stuff.
Click to expand...

I was at Butch's opening game at UCLA(being a native of Los Angeles it was surreal seeing the Canes in my city) and while UM had some obvious top end talent( Ray Lewis, Lang, Holmes, Yatil Green and some other NFL guys) you could tell overall the talent had really diminished. And it had begun to diminish after the 1992 season when Jimmy's last group of recruits left the program. Then you add on the sanctions.

Ive always maintained that he had issues with game management but his job of rebuilding UM was unreal - and to do it in such a short time. That 1997 season it seemed like Miami would never recover. People were actually writing obits on this program

Butch's biggest mistake, ever, was not letting himself fulfill the destiny that was awaiting him. He should've been the coach for a looong time and won multiple titles. He never stuck around to enjoy the fruits of his labor
 
In fact Manny has been clued in as to how Coach L has been trying to keep the basketball team alive, if not relevant. Until he was ****ed by the FBI/Adidas mess he had the program on firm, ground after years of building it via transfers.
 
In Miami, Udonis Haslem goes in the Rafters before Lebron James. ( He left to Cleveland,Tremendous Talent) Manny Diaz goes in the Rafters before Butch Davis. ( He left to Cleveland, Tremendous Talent). it won't make sense to most outside the fanbase. It won't make sense to some inside the fanbase. Just because Butch Davis didn't have Social Media your going to deny the views? Manny Diaz just got the job, and this "Might" be the beginning to Players being Pumped out into the Draft. Martell is a 1st if he just does what he's been doing his entire life. Brevin Jordan the next best since Njoku. Manny Diaz said this is his Dream Job, and after the Aggressive Defensive performances, TurnOver Chain, Portal Mastery, Respect that's rising, FIRING the right people for once. Part of my belief and stance on the subject is because I see the shift. If 10 years from now #TNM is still Trending remember who said it. Block me if you really think im Troll PLEASE. if I'm not at Hard rock stadium I'll be watching the games at Miami Lakes Ale House like I've been for years. If you think Butch Davis had Bums and nothing else remember ☆☆☆☆☆ Ratings are always off. KJ Osborn was a ☆☆ but I guess there's a Butch style evaluator in Buffalo
 
Advertisement
DavidMiami said:
I agree with everything your saying. You are Correct. I think this is a misunderstanding. I said Butch is Lesser than JJ and HS. Hes in the tier right under. Butch Davis did learn from JJ being under him for years. I'm not saying Butch Didn't do great things at Miami, I'm saying Miami helped Butch Davis do great things but yes Butch Davis is the one that capitalized. I never said Coker or Dennis were as good as Butch because Coker was the players coach, Not the one coaching the players. I guess I just put Jimmy Johnson in such elite company its insulting to think of 1 of his students being on his level. Jimmy Johnson did make things easier on Butch in miami
Click to expand...
I see you've been posting less than a month. You've opened a can of worms the size of Mount Rushmore. The Butch debate raged on for weeks during this season due to how poorly the team performed and many were calling for Richt's ouster and Butch to be his replacement. Trust me on this. It's not a debate you want to continue to pursue especially with all the positive things Manny has going on. TIFWIW.
 
423Hurricane said:
I see you've been posting less than a month. You've opened a can of worms the size of Mount Rushmore. The Butch debate raged on for weeks during this season due to how poorly the team performed and many were calling for Richt's ouster and Butch to be his replacement. Trust me on this. It's not a debate you want to continue to pursue especially with all the positive things Manny has going on. TIFWIW.
Click to expand...

Your right I'll leave this thread alone my friend. I know 2001 Miami Hurricanes players really have wanted Butch back ever since he finished F***ching S***s instead of raising the family he started. But this family went through the struggles and grew up without him.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
It's just sad that make yourself the center of this issue. That you focus on how people treat you.

You simply don't understand or have knowledge of what Butch did. I do. I was there at the time. What Butch accomplished is very similar to what Schnellenberger accomplished, in both substance and style. And, yes, JJ and Drunken Dennis and Coker played for more titles.

But anyone who doesn't put Butch ahead of Drunken Dennis and Coker simply doesn't understand all of the little things that Butch did (and big things too) to turn Miami around and to lay such a solid foundation that a journeyman assistant coach (Coker) could come within 1 bad penalty of back-to-back national championships.

Great coach. Top 3 at Miami, with Howard and JJ. Undisputed by anyone who was close to the program at the time.

And F the Board of Trustees.
Click to expand...
You may want to talk to the guys that played for Coach E. Dennis Erickson won 2 NCs at UM and was the most innovative offensive mind of his generation. Jimmy won one NC FYI.and lost to Penn State-with the best college football team ever to that point. Dennis deserves more credit and please don’t compare him to Coker, like comparing Nick Sabin with Al Golden!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Manny is looking at things from a Moneyball perspective, something that has been missing from the program for years. Miami cannot compete with the large factory schools in the traditional manner. Instead, Diaz and his staff have to be able to get talent, outside of the regular streams. The new transfer portal is now that area. Where someone like Bill Snyder exploited the JUCO circuit to build a program, Manny is using the transfer portal to overcome a HS recruiting scene that is beyond corrupt. Get the kids on the rebound to fill in gaps where your regular recruiting falls short.
 
Advertisement
DavidMiami said:
It's a serious Question. I said butch is a solid coach but what puts him in Jimmy Johnson, Howard Schnellenberger.
Click to expand...
Butch put together one of the greatest teams of all time... U have to give him credit with that. **** he should have a ring too. But I'll never put him on the level of JJ, but I will put him on the level of Howard. If JJ would of stayed 10-15 more years, he would of won at least 5-6 more chips. JJ was on another level.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
DavidMiami said:
Why do people praise Butch Davis soo much. Manny Diaz already passed him in the rafters. Butch is a solid coach but not in Jimmy Johnson status. Also Butch Left us for Cleveland, Now hes at FIU that's a great Career timeline
Click to expand...
Because Butch built the greatest college football team of all time.

We're all behind Manny but he has yet to do anything to remotely pass Butch.
 
Advertisement
LuCane said:
I've said this a handful of times since he arrived, but found a thread from last season where I wrote it on the board. I'll stick to this for the same reasoning I previously offered: I just think Diaz's skill set fits better as a HC than as a DC. He's an aggressive dude who wants to anticipate (sometimes recklessly, but showed big adjustments with that tendency in '18). If all we do is reflect that, it's a significant step forward.

View attachment 78279
Click to expand...

Funny. I specifically remember you writing this last year. It was the first time I heard someone say Diaz would be a better HC than a DC. Let’s hope for our sake you’re right.

Personally, I’m not sold on Diaz. His recruiting concerns me and you can live on the Portal market for so long.
 
Last edited:
Butch built what I think was the best team in history. That being said it is now history. Right now we have Manny for at least a couple of years. For better or worse remains to be seen. Just what I have observed since he took over he is the first coach that is seemingly doing things right since Butch. No coach may ever again be able to build a team as good as Butch did but I think Manny is on the right track so far to bring the Canes back to being a contender.
 
Hope we’ve finally found the answer. Will have to wait for the season to find out. We knew he had to do something fast and the transfer portal was this best way to save this class.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top