Let's get this straight: Golden is a Mediocre Recruiter

[bshaw28]

In Golden's defense - I think the affect "The Cloud" had on recruiting is now understated. There's no question it was a huge hurdle in recruiting, and no matter who was coach, no one would've closed all the top So Fla talent while we were waiting on sanctions. Golden was dealt a bad hand, and it was something he had no control over.

But - he's certainly made plenty of errors in recruiting and evaluations. Those errors are just magnified because of the failures he's had coaching the team and getting wins. That part he's had total control over, and his poor job there has added to the recruiting problems.

 

[BigDikCane]

Gorlden is the dumbest corch in college football history.

 

[Coach Macho]

Yeah right. I do remember we got him late after NSD. Most people were still high on Tracey and Artie who both turned out to be JAGs

Denzel Perryman, Eddie Johnson, and Alex Figueroa might be better examples of under rated guys that we got right.

corn was recruited by everyone was rb. golden felt he would be a better CB. i mean who were really busts? he found armbrister a slow safety who was a late signee, gunter a 2 star juco no one heard of and peirre who no one besides temple wanted and they will all have nfl careers. i think he has no idea how to run a scheme. much different than talent.

this (meaning i agree), goldens problem is the scheme he runs

i saw a lot of tracy in high school and i wasnt too impressed with him coming out, i was really surprised that he was rated so high, as for artie burns he was really really raw at corner coming in, ive stated hes good at one on one coverage but when the ball gets there he messes up a lot of coaches down here thought he was over rated also, corn is a straight up baller, courtel has looked good for us, pierre and zel, walford was a no star comes in and turns into one of the top TEs in the nation, rayshawn scott, the problem that has always been on golden is the scheme and his hard headedness to change it and fire the bad coaches

He didn't recruit Walford... Walford as well as Duke, Dorsett and Feliciano either sign or committed to Shannon... Al's eye for talent is overrated...

I was talking from a development standpoint, he got zel, pierre has been solid, rayshawn before injury, i take it you are talking about under the radar kids

Define "development".

Pierre has been pedestrian, which is what you could expect from a recruit of his caliber.
Rayshawn is okay. Expected.
Denzel is Denzel. He would've killed people at any college.

How did his "development" of Chickillo turn out?

Look, I know for a fact that Miami does a pretty decent job of developing kid's technique cause I've seen it first hand, but they do a terrible job of putting players in the best position to succeed. Is that part of development?

 

[Coach Macho]

Golden is a mediocre recruiter and it's mainly due to his evaluation techniques.

They put stock in all the wrong things. I'm almost willing to go out on a ledge and say that they underestimate the level of high school football in South Florida because they will completely ignore some of the kids who dominate down here on a regular basis. I don't know how they justify it, maybe it's height and/or weight standards, but somewhere in their heads they're saying "Well just cause he dominated in South Florida doesn't mean he can play D-1 football at Miami." (<--asinine) NO RECRUITER IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL WOULD EVER SAY THAT!!! Our coaches are the only ones who don't put stock in the fact that a kid balled down here. Every other recruiter in the nation understands that if a kid can shine down here then he can play some **** ball.

 

[Coach Macho]

Got ***'n guys like Gary Patterson and Pat Narduzzi offering kids from South Florida that Golden wouldn't even look at.

What kind of bullsh!t is that? LOL

 

[Sonny Long]

In Golden's defense - I think the affect "The Cloud" had on recruiting is now understated. There's no question it was a huge hurdle in recruiting, and no matter who was coach, no one would've closed all the top So Fla talent while we were waiting on sanctions. Golden was dealt a bad hand, and it was something he had no control over.

But - he's certainly made plenty of errors in recruiting and evaluations. Those errors are just magnified because of the failures he's had coaching the team and getting wins. That part he's had total control over, and his poor job there has added to the recruiting problems.

You are way off. Even during the Cloud, UM still brought in Classes that were better than 90% of all collegiate programs.

Explain that!

 

[Coach Macho]

F*ck a **** cloud.

See, this is the part of this conversation that I hate...every time it pops up people only talk about the guys we missed on. ***** that. What about the guys we didn't even recruit?! THAT is what makes Golden a slappy.

 

[Canesfan1899]

Other than Alex Collins or Dalvin Cook, what South Florida kid did Golden miss out on that would have made a difference in our record last year?

Matt Thomas?
Jaynard Bostwick?
Keith Bryant?

Here are just three:

Amari Cooper
Denver Kirkland
Skai Moore

Sony Michele
Travis Rudolph
Ermon Lane
Ect.............. Rinse and repeat

 

[cane since birth]

corn was recruited by everyone was rb. golden felt he would be a better CB. i mean who were really busts? he found armbrister a slow safety who was a late signee, gunter a 2 star juco no one heard of and peirre who no one besides temple wanted and they will all have nfl careers. i think he has no idea how to run a scheme. much different than talent.

this (meaning i agree), goldens problem is the scheme he runs

i saw a lot of tracy in high school and i wasnt too impressed with him coming out, i was really surprised that he was rated so high, as for artie burns he was really really raw at corner coming in, ive stated hes good at one on one coverage but when the ball gets there he messes up a lot of coaches down here thought he was over rated also, corn is a straight up baller, courtel has looked good for us, pierre and zel, walford was a no star comes in and turns into one of the top TEs in the nation, rayshawn scott, the problem that has always been on golden is the scheme and his hard headedness to change it and fire the bad coaches

He didn't recruit Walford... Walford as well as Duke, Dorsett and Feliciano either sign or committed to Shannon... Al's eye for talent is overrated...

I was talking from a development standpoint, he got zel, pierre has been solid, rayshawn before injury, i take it you are talking about under the radar kids

Define "development".

Pierre has been pedestrian, which is what you could expect from a recruit of his caliber.
Rayshawn is okay. Expected.
Denzel is Denzel. He would've killed people at any college.

How did his "development" of Chickillo turn out?

Look, I know for a fact that Miami does a pretty decent job of developing kid's technique cause I've seen it first hand, but they do a terrible job of putting players in the best position to succeed. Is that part of development?

The putting them in position to succeed is more of a scheme thing but yes i agree

 

[theuksu]

Golden is a mediocre recruiter and it's mainly due to his evaluation techniques.

They put stock in all the wrong things. I'm almost willing to go out on a ledge and say that they underestimate the level of high school football in South Florida because they will completely ignore some of the kids who dominate down here on a regular basis. I don't know how they justify it, maybe it's height and/or weight standards, but somewhere in their heads they're saying "Well just cause he dominated in South Florida doesn't mean he can play D-1 football at Miami." (<--asinine) NO RECRUITER IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL WOULD EVER SAY THAT!!! Our coaches are the only ones who don't put stock in the fact that a kid balled down here. Every other recruiter in the nation understands that if a kid can shine down here then he can play some **** ball.

As a coach have you ever sat down with Golden and had a conversation about his recruiting and evaluation philosophies? If not, why? It's frustrating hearing people always ***** about problems but never have ideas for a solution.

 

[Sable]

Please be aware that 2015 will be our turn around year. Preferably because Golden starts winning and is retained or because we are forced to replace him. The talent base has been improved, the facilities and program have been enhanced. Go 'Canes

 

[lauderdaleballer]

He is a bad talent evaluator not recruiter. If you take a look at who we got we should be a top 10 team. Corn Elder is one of the best CB we got but was probably the lowest rated.

Corn elder was a consensus 4 star recruit. What do you mean?

Yeah right. I do remember we got him late after NSD. Most people were still high on Tracey and Artie who both turned out to be JAGs

Denzel Perryman, Eddie Johnson, and Alex Figueroa might be better examples of under rated guys that we got right.

Figs did absolutely nothing... Johnson was a head banger yet decent linebacker(he wasn't a superstar like some fans made him out to be) and Barrow had to beg Al to take Perryman or he would have been tomahawk chopping... I wouldn't say the staff got them right... And I can't put Figs and EJ on DP's level..,

Figs played well as a freshman and would have been a starter last season and this season. EJ was a freak of a high school player and had the coaches been able to control him he would have been a 3 year starter. My point was none of these guys were rated very well and they were all studs (though 2 left us early). We have 2 star guys like them doing well while guys like Jamel Carter, Artie Burns, Tracy Howard, and Tryiq McCord amount to nothing. The 4 guys I mentioned were all 4 or 5 star prospects.

While the data shows that 4 and 5 star players are far more likely to make the NFL I think talent evaluation in south Florida is some of the worst in the country. You have guys that can look great a 7v7 camp but the results don't show on the field. You have guys that are automatically 3 star recruits before they start a game (Ryan Mayes). The talent is in south Florida they are just giving the wrong ratings to the wrong guys.

To prove this take a look at these numbers:

State of Florida
2011 4 and 5 Star (Scout) 41
2015 NFL Draft: 30

State of Georgia
2011 4 and 5 Star (Scout) 23
2015 NFL Draft: 37

I get what you're saying but I'm just saying Figs and EJ weren't studs... EJ was decent but very inconsistent... He showed out against run heavy teams like GT and VT where they couldn't do anything else but was quite mediocre against any decent balanced team... Fig barely played and our fan base proclaimed he was a stud when he wasn't... My issue is that Golden doesn't have an eye for talent nor is he a good recruiter... Yea he'll get a few good players because we're UM but it's not because of his evaluating and recruiting prowess... And I'll still say for the most part all of our players are playing the same no matter their ranking... Which 2 star is outplaying Howard and Burns? No one... Which 2 star outplays Carter? Most of those high ranking guys with the exception of Howard were ranked high due to physical attributes... Did Carter even play a combine 10 games in high school? He was always hurt...

 

[Andrew]

Corn elder was a consensus 4 star recruit. What do you mean?

Yeah right. I do remember we got him late after NSD. Most people were still high on Tracey and Artie who both turned out to be JAGs

Denzel Perryman, Eddie Johnson, and Alex Figueroa might be better examples of under rated guys that we got right.

Figs did absolutely nothing... Johnson was a head banger yet decent linebacker(he wasn't a superstar like some fans made him out to be) and Barrow had to beg Al to take Perryman or he would have been tomahawk chopping... I wouldn't say the staff got them right... And I can't put Figs and EJ on DP's level..,

Figs played well as a freshman and would have been a starter last season and this season. EJ was a freak of a high school player and had the coaches been able to control him he would have been a 3 year starter. My point was none of these guys were rated very well and they were all studs (though 2 left us early). We have 2 star guys like them doing well while guys like Jamel Carter, Artie Burns, Tracy Howard, and Tryiq McCord amount to nothing. The 4 guys I mentioned were all 4 or 5 star prospects.

While the data shows that 4 and 5 star players are far more likely to make the NFL I think talent evaluation in south Florida is some of the worst in the country. You have guys that can look great a 7v7 camp but the results don't show on the field. You have guys that are automatically 3 star recruits before they start a game (Ryan Mayes). The talent is in south Florida they are just giving the wrong ratings to the wrong guys.

To prove this take a look at these numbers:

State of Florida
2011 4 and 5 Star (Scout) 41
2015 NFL Draft: 30

State of Georgia
2011 4 and 5 Star (Scout) 23
2015 NFL Draft: 37

I get what you're saying but I'm just saying Figs and EJ weren't studs... EJ was decent but very inconsistent... He showed out against run heavy teams like GT and VT where they couldn't do anything else but was quite mediocre against any decent balanced team... Fig barely played and our fan base proclaimed he was a stud when he wasn't... My issue is that Golden doesn't have an eye for talent nor is he a good recruiter... Yea he'll get a few good players because we're UM but it's not because of his evaluating and recruiting prowess... And I'll still say for the most part all of our players are playing the same no matter their ranking... Which 2 star is outplaying Howard and Burns? No one... Which 2 star outplays Carter? Most of those high ranking guys with the exception of Howard were ranked high due to physical attributes... Did Carter even play a combine 10 games in high school? He was always hurt...

Figs would have started as a sophomore and EJ did start as a sophomore. I was using these guys as examples of guys that were far under rated coming out of high schools. To answer your question Ladarius Gunter has outplayed both Burns and Howard. Carter was still a 4 star recruit according to rivals, scout, 247sports and ESPN and so far Fentress has turned out to be a better player.

Golden can't evaluate talent and that has been the point I have been trying to make. I think you are on board with that point by reading your post. We have a bunch of over rated guys on our team. I have Joe Yearby on watch as I wasn't very impressed watching him run in person. He doesn't run with near enough authority to be successful at the college level. He should have been a 3 star recruit.

 

[lauderdaleballer]

Yea I get what you're saying, Andrew... We agree for the most part... I'm just adding my opinion that I didn't think EJ or Figs were stars... EJ was decent on a horrible defense... Figs barely did anything... And I don't think Gunter outplayed Howard at all... He was decent and so has been Howard and Burns but I guess we expect a 2star to be decent and not 4 or 5 stars... I think players like EJ, Figs and Gunter actually proved Als evaluation skills as being subpar... Anyway yes you're right... He doesn't evaluate well...

I'm with you on Yearby, however I never expected much because of his build... The every down backs built like him that I can remember is Darren Sproles and Noel Devine but both were extremely faster... Even speedsters like Chris Rainey and Jeff Demps weren't every down backs...

 

[Andrew]

Yea I get what you're saying, Andrew... We agree for the most part... I'm just adding my opinion that I didn't think EJ or Figs were stars... EJ was decent on a horrible defense... Figs barely did anything... And I don't think Gunter outplayed Howard at all... He was decent and so has been Howard and Burns but I guess we expect a 2star to be decent and not 4 or 5 stars... I think players like EJ, Figs and Gunter actually proved Als evaluation skills as being subpar... Anyway yes you're right... He doesn't evaluate well...

I'm with you on Yearby, however I never expected much because of his build... The every down backs built like him that I can remember is Darren Sproles and Noel Devine but both were extremely faster... Even speedsters like Chris Rainey and Jeff Demps weren't every down backs...

To add to the RB talk I think this is why GA is going to be different things with Sony. Sony won't be successful running through the tackles and that is why he won't pass Chubbs on the depth chart. Sony was the number 3 back according to 247sports but in reality he should have been 10 - 15 because he doesn't have the tools. Anyone that watched Chubbs in HS or at least looked at his resume would have known who the better back was. Sony was ranked higher by everyone and even Yearby was ranked higher than Chubbs. I know Sony is legit but our recruiting classes always look so much better because players in south Florida tend to be ranked higher due to where they are from. I am not saying we don't try and fill a class full of south Florida guys but we got to get the right guys.

 

[User-4525]

Yea I get what you're saying, Andrew... We agree for the most part... I'm just adding my opinion that I didn't think EJ or Figs were stars... EJ was decent on a horrible defense... Figs barely did anything... And I don't think Gunter outplayed Howard at all... He was decent and so has been Howard and Burns but I guess we expect a 2star to be decent and not 4 or 5 stars... I think players like EJ, Figs and Gunter actually proved Als evaluation skills as being subpar... Anyway yes you're right... He doesn't evaluate well...

I'm with you on Yearby, however I never expected much because of his build... The every down backs built like him that I can remember is Darren Sproles and Noel Devine but both were extremely faster... Even speedsters like Chris Rainey and Jeff Demps weren't every down backs...

To add to the RB talk I think this is why GA is going to be different things with Sony. Sony won't be successful running through the tackles and that is why he won't pass Chubbs on the depth chart. Sony was the number 3 back according to 247sports but in reality he should have been 10 - 15 because he doesn't have the tools. Anyone that watched Chubbs in HS or at least looked at his resume would have known who the better back was. Sony was ranked higher by everyone and even Yearby was ranked higher than Chubbs. I know Sony is legit but our recruiting classes always look so much better because players in south Florida tend to be ranked higher due to where they are from. I am not saying we don't try and fill a class full of south Florida guys but we got to get the right guys.

Have you seen Sony live the past 5 years? What are the 10 or 15 running backs in the class of 2014 you believed are better than Sony. Furthermore, Sony would ahead of Joseph Yearby right now and was a better prospect in high school. Sony isn't Chubb but he's a **** good back

 

[jw410]

Golden is a mediocre recruiter and it's mainly due to his evaluation techniques.

They put stock in all the wrong things. I'm almost willing to go out on a ledge and say that they underestimate the level of high school football in South Florida because they will completely ignore some of the kids who dominate down here on a regular basis. I don't know how they justify it, maybe it's height and/or weight standards, but somewhere in their heads they're saying "Well just cause he dominated in South Florida doesn't mean he can play D-1 football at Miami." (<--asinine) NO RECRUITER IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL WOULD EVER SAY THAT!!! Our coaches are the only ones who don't put stock in the fact that a kid balled down here. Every other recruiter in the nation understands that if a kid can shine down here then he can play some **** ball.

As a coach have you ever sat down with Golden and had a conversation about his recruiting and evaluation philosophies? If not, why? It's frustrating hearing people always ***** about problems but never have ideas for a solution.

This site is full of complainers..

That's why.. Usually men say for every problem there is a solution, this site is backwards in that thought process.

 

[User-4525]

We get south Florida guys but we don't always get the right ones. I believe 11 kids were drafted from Broward/dade this year and 5-6 more from PB.

We just had 6 south Florida guys drafted and Walford + feliciano were complete sleepers

 

[jw410]

Yea I get what you're saying, Andrew... We agree for the most part... I'm just adding my opinion that I didn't think EJ or Figs were stars... EJ was decent on a horrible defense... Figs barely did anything... And I don't think Gunter outplayed Howard at all... He was decent and so has been Howard and Burns but I guess we expect a 2star to be decent and not 4 or 5 stars... I think players like EJ, Figs and Gunter actually proved Als evaluation skills as being subpar... Anyway yes you're right... He doesn't evaluate well...

I'm with you on Yearby, however I never expected much because of his build... The every down backs built like him that I can remember is Darren Sproles and Noel Devine but both were extremely faster... Even speedsters like Chris Rainey and Jeff Demps weren't every down backs...

To add to the RB talk I think this is why GA is going to be different things with Sony. Sony won't be successful running through the tackles and that is why he won't pass Chubbs on the depth chart. Sony was the number 3 back according to 247sports but in reality he should have been 10 - 15 because he doesn't have the tools. Anyone that watched Chubbs in HS or at least looked at his resume would have known who the better back was. Sony was ranked higher by everyone and even Yearby was ranked higher than Chubbs. I know Sony is legit but our recruiting classes always look so much better because players in south Florida tend to be ranked higher due to where they are from. I am not saying we don't try and fill a class full of south Florida guys but we got to get the right guys.

Agreed and agreed 2x
Sony is not a hard nosed runner ala Chubbs. Chubbs seeks out contact, now in the long term that will cut his career down a little.

It's all about the right guys.. I'm sick of the s.fla homer fest.. I've seen good guys come out of **** Alquippa Pa so talent is talent. We need better coaching it's the end of the road for Al and I hope he is investing his money.

 

[Andrew]

Yea I get what you're saying, Andrew... We agree for the most part... I'm just adding my opinion that I didn't think EJ or Figs were stars... EJ was decent on a horrible defense... Figs barely did anything... And I don't think Gunter outplayed Howard at all... He was decent and so has been Howard and Burns but I guess we expect a 2star to be decent and not 4 or 5 stars... I think players like EJ, Figs and Gunter actually proved Als evaluation skills as being subpar... Anyway yes you're right... He doesn't evaluate well...

I'm with you on Yearby, however I never expected much because of his build... The every down backs built like him that I can remember is Darren Sproles and Noel Devine but both were extremely faster... Even speedsters like Chris Rainey and Jeff Demps weren't every down backs...

To add to the RB talk I think this is why GA is going to be different things with Sony. Sony won't be successful running through the tackles and that is why he won't pass Chubbs on the depth chart. Sony was the number 3 back according to 247sports but in reality he should have been 10 - 15 because he doesn't have the tools. Anyone that watched Chubbs in HS or at least looked at his resume would have known who the better back was. Sony was ranked higher by everyone and even Yearby was ranked higher than Chubbs. I know Sony is legit but our recruiting classes always look so much better because players in south Florida tend to be ranked higher due to where they are from. I am not saying we don't try and fill a class full of south Florida guys but we got to get the right guys.

Have you seen Sony live the past 5 years? What are the 10 or 15 running backs in the class of 2014 you believed are better than Sony. Furthermore, Sony would ahead of Joseph Yearby right now and was a better prospect in high school.

I have no doubt Sony is better than Yearby. Yearby isn't a top 10 back either. I wasn't debating that. I don't think Sony has the physical tools to be an every down back in college and that is why I think he is out of the top 10. Sony is a guy I put on there 3rd and long as an option to throw too. On Reddit Todd Gurley clearly thinks Chubbs is the better back http://www.reddit.com/r/iama/comments/34f0qh/hi_i_am_todd_gurley_ii_former_georgia_bulldog_at/

A few guys better than Sony that were ranked below him.
Nick Chubbs (UGA)
Samaje Perine (OU)
Nick Wilson (Arizona)
Royce Freeman (Oregon)

I don't watch Sports Center when Miami loses so I missed a lot of college football last season. I saw Miami play once in person and TCU twice in person.