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JD4 said:
I'm glad you're walking back the Burrow's heisman season comparison because that year was like a glitch in the matrix lol. In the two playoff games he had over 900 yards, 12 TDs, and 0 interceptions, 79 rush yrds and 2 rushing TDs.

I'm not hating on TVD he had a really great year. But comparing him to the best of all time single season isn't right and sets TVD up for failure.

This is a comparison of just the games that were in conference for TVD and Burrow since they both played all of the conference games. Burrow had one extra game since they made the conference championship. When you include Burrow's games in the playoffs and his games against out of conference opponents his averages all go up.
NameAttemptsCompletionsComp. %YardsTDsIntsRateRecords
Burrow24031177.17%3249323197.09-0
TVD19231361.34%2661226152.15-3


I actually agree with your point that there isn't much of a point in saying that Garcia is going to be better than TVD, but in trying to defend TVD from that I think you're going too far in the other direction.

I'm a huge believer in both of them and hope they beat Burrow's records but trying to keep myself grounded in facts.
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I think we are both speaking and facts and probably closer in agreement than it seems through text on a message board. But I’m not walking back anything…if you take away the 2 extra games he played over everyone else, his stats obviously fall back to the pack a little bit. You take 900 yds and 12tds off the board and he’s at 4700yds and 48tds. That’s not far off from TVDs stats stretched to a full season.

It’s just crazy that the two seasons you compared are a senior during the GOAT season and a freshman. Call it hyperbole but if TVD plays like he did but on OSU, Bama, UGA, or 2019 LSU there’s no reason to believe he wouldn’t have 4500ish yds and 40ish TDs. The main difference being Burrow went absolutely HAM like you said in the playoffs. Take those games out and he becomes much closer to 4500/40.

I just want to cherish the best quarterback we’ve had since I can remember and I believe he can be in elite company.
 
JD4 said:
You editing your post after I've responded makes it difficult to keep a fluid conversation going. Would be more fair to respond again with the new thoughts you add after seeing my response to your comment.

In any case, I added Bryce Young's stats from conference play and the conference championship also excluding the CFP.

NameAttemptsCompletionsComp. %YardsTDsIntsRateRecord
Burrow24031177.17%3249323197.09-0
TVD19231361.34%2661226152.15-3
Bryce Young35222764.49%3168263162.88-1

His numbers are still better than TVD's, but you're absolutely right that his numbers are in the ballpark of last years heisman winning quarterback when comparing their conference games.

TVD had his first year and we can be optimistic that with that experience he'll have an even better year. He won't win the heisman unless we are one of the best teams in football and we won't be one of the best teams in football unless he can help us win games we should win. If he takes a step forward next year by coming out of games with confidence and rhythm and we win 10+ games he'll absolutely be in the Heisman convo.

I'm not downplaying how great he can be but he didn't have numbers comparable to Burrow's record breaking year which is the comment I originally replied to, you've since moved the goalpost a number of times. He averaged 333 yards per game btw its disingenuous to say "almost 400." Thats what I'm talking about. Why not just say he averaged 333 or almost 350 yards and be honest and let the impressive achievement speak for itself.
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I guess ESPNs stats are wrong then cause they have him at 2931 and 25 tds. Which puts him just under the Heisman winner
 
scojacks13 said:
I think we are both speaking and facts and probably closer in agreement than it seems through text on a message board. But I’m not walking back anything…if you take away the 2 extra games he played over everyone else, his stats obviously fall back to the pack a little bit. You take 900 yds and 12tds off the board and he’s at 4700yds and 48tds. That’s not far off from TVDs stats stretched to a full season.

It’s just crazy that the two seasons you compared are a senior during the GOAT season and a freshman. Call it hyperbole but if TVD plays like he did but on OSU, Bama, UGA, or 2019 LSU there’s no reason to believe he wouldn’t have 4500ish yds and 40ish TDs. The main difference being Burrow went absolutely HAM like you said in the playoffs. Take those games out and he becomes much closer to 4500/40.

I just want to cherish the best quarterback we’ve had since I can remember and I believe he can be in elite company.
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The number comparison I posted is TVD with 8 games and Burrow and Young with 9 games.

If you take TVD's averages in conference play and multiple by 9 here is the comparison.

NameCompletionsAttemptsComp. %YardsTDsIntsRateRecord
Burrow24031177.17%3249323197.09-0
TVD21635261.36%2994257152.2
Bryce Young35222764.49%3168263162.88-1

He is in the ballpark with Young, but still still has the worst completion %, fewest yards, worst TD ratio and worst rating.

He can take a leap next year easily and have better numbers than Young did this year. I originally replied to you saying that his season if extrapolated would be among the best all time. I was saying that is wrong because Burrow is the best all time and it isn't even close.

I believe like you do that he can take a leap since he was inexperienced last year. I hope he does too obviously lol.
 
scojacks13 said:
I guess ESPNs stats are wrong then cause they have him at 2931 and 25 tds. Which puts him just under the Heisman winner
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I clearly said the stats I was including were just from conference games...

I excluded all of the games Burrow, Young, and TVD played against teams that weren't in their conferences since TVD only played half a game against a highschool team but he played all of our conference games. I also excluded the CFP since TVD didn't get to play in a bowl game.
 
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JD4 said:
The number comparison I posted is TVD with 8 games and Burrow and Young with 9 games.

If you take TVD's averages in conference play and multiple by 9 here is the comparison.

NameCompletionsAttemptsComp. %YardsTDsIntsRateRecord
Burrow24031177.17%3249323197.09-0
TVD21635261.36%2994257152.2
Bryce Young35222764.49%3168263162.88-1

He is in the ballpark with Young, but still still has the worst completion %, fewest yards, worst TD ratio and worst rating.

He can take a leap next year easily and have better numbers than Young did this year. I originally replied to you saying that his season if extrapolated would be among the best all time. I was saying that is wrong because Burrow is the best all time and it isn't even close.

I believe like you do that he can take a leap since he was inexperienced last year. I hope he does too obviously lol.
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Bryce so good he gets credit for 1.55 completions for every completion lol
 
JD4 said:
Here is why I suggest having tempered expectations:

Our coaching staff is elite at building a program but building a program takes time. This isn’t the NFL where it’s only about managing people and calling plays. Elite college football teams require elite players and in college the coaches job is to recruit. The only knock on our head coach is that he isn’t a game day wizard. Our staff will build a monster but it’s strength will come in recruiting which they haven’t had time to do yet.

Last year we weren’t as talented as some people think we were. We were in 7 games that were decided by one possession or less.

G5 team App state W 25-23
Virginia L 30-28
UNC L 45-42
NCSU W 31-30
Pitt W 38-34
GT W 33-30
FSU L 31-28

We were 4-3 against these guys lol.

We were 7-5. We had some close loses that could’ve been wins with a bounce here or there but we had more wins that could’ve been loses.

I’m really happy with the direction the program is going and know these guys will make big change at Miami. I’m not expecting for them to change the landscape of college football after the first season.
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Understood. And agree with @JHallCanes not to go down a negative path…at this time 😎
 
Lol if I had the patience to find the stats from just the second half of games and I extrapolated that out over the course of a full season then I bet TVD even beats Burrow's best year. Too many games where the first half killed him. Even considering that his numbers were incredible and just below Young's season this year if you only count conference games.
 
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@scojacks13​


I agree I think we're both closer than the debate would let on.

I was only really disagreeing that TVD's season last year if he had played a full season would be on par with the best season of all time which belongs to Burrow. It wouldn't.

His season is close to Young's who just won the Heisman and TVD can put up similar or better numbers this year and next. We aired the ball out a lot last year so I'm not sure if he'll get as many attempts, but I think the experience and confidence that comes with another year under his belt can offset that.

He is talented as all fck and I believe in our QB room too. I hope they all maximize their potential and I'm tired of this going back and forth lol.

I think I got a little nit-picky about what I think were a little exaggerated claims, but I am a big believer in TVD. That kid doesn't give up and he can throw the football. He also is ******* huge, tough as fck, and he makes the Canes realllly fun to watch when he's on.
 
scojacks13 said:
I know it’s hypothetical, but if you carry out TVD’s stats for an entire season he arguably wins the Heisman (record probably the deciding factor). His stats would have been comp to Joe Burrow “best offense ever” stats. And you think Garcia is better than him?!?! Lord I hope you’re right!!
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You're setting this kid up for failure with you thinking that way. We can't always count on another teams shortcomings to equate as our strengths. One thing moving forward that points towards the acc leveling up is the coaching talent that came in this off season throughout the conference. That usually means improved talent as well. The acc recently has been a bottom feeder. I wouldn't be so quick to crown someone based upon his success against poorly coached bottom feeders with injury concerns. But we were in that same category as well. Hopefully getting better coaching will mean better overall results rather than just relying on the connection he had with Rambo deep.
 
Brooklyndee said:
You're setting this kid up for failure with you thinking that way. We can't always count on another teams shortcomings to equate as our strengths. One thing moving forward that points towards the acc leveling up is the coaching talent that came in this off season throughout the conference. That usually means improved talent as well. The acc recently has been a bottom feeder. I wouldn't be so quick to crown someone based upon his success against poorly coached bottom feeders with injury concerns. But we were in that same category as well. Hopefully getting better coaching will mean better overall results rather than just relying on the connection he had with Rambo deep.
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I’m not intending to crown him. First I just believe my initial point was over looked. I simply tried to show how TVDs avg stats compared to some elite company, and in turn saying that if Garcia is truly better then what does that mean for his stats??? Could TVD have a slump? Sure. Do I think he wins the Heisman this year? That’s a far reach especially considering the current status of the team. But my point is he put up amazing numbers for a freshman, especially once he got comfortable. If Garcia is better than TVD then we have to be talking Heisman territory right? I get stats don’t Guarantee a Heisman, see every Hawaii QB, but if anyone is being set up for failure I think it is Garcia by some peoples logic on this board.
 
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bdcane4eva said:
Year 4 IMO - when the 23 class are Juniors.
That will be the year we are in the hunt....anything sooner would be crazy level of success.
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I'm looking at next year to be in the playoff hunt and winning ACC. The 23 class WRs can make an immediate impact if given the opportunity. We see it all over the country including Bama. Also, the team will have had over a year in the "process" and we don't play Clemson (replaced with BC) and get a&m at home.
 
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