forums

Ivins said Diaz now saying 25 is the minimum

Advertisement
DMoney said:
Ideal realistic finish (if we sign 27 or drop guys like Keyshawn Washington and Mathis):

Worsham
Harrell (the DB)
Knighton
Francois
2 OL
Davonte Brown
Douglas Emilien
One of Flowe/Greene/Harrell (the LB/DE)
Click to expand...
All things considered that would be really really good. Win the next two and the bowl game and we are moving in the right direction.
 
I see 9 open spots

I dont see 9 guys that we're LIKELY to get.
This is stacking up to be another head scratching class
 
Who cares if we have 25 or 27. IF we sign 25 I'll be happy especially if it is 23-24 that are from HS and 13 EEs.
 
Advertisement
TheOriginalCane said:
You are wrong.

We have "played with fewer than 85 recruited scholarship players" because a ton of kids leave UM, and we don't have the numbers UNDER THE INITIAL COUNTER RULES to get back to 85.

So just do the math. There are idiots on this board who claim that we have between 1 and 5 countbacks left. That we have not ever "caught up" and exceeded 25 since 2011. Let's pretend that's true, and that in any given year between 2011 and 2019, we could have signed FIVE MORE kids under the IC rules.

Would we still be at 85? Good lord, someone just posted that we currently have 74 recruited scholarship players. Thus, this magical "can't get to 85" problem is NOT, in fact, "fixed" by signing a few extra countbacks. IT WILL ONLY BE FIXED VIA RETENTION. And development. In any 5 year period, we can enroll 125 kids, we can "lose" 40", and we would still be at 85 recruited scholarship players. YET WE CAN'T SEEM TO DO IT.

The solution is not to sign a couple of extra players (due to a misunderstanding of how many players Miami has signed and/or enrolled over the past decade). Posters keep falling for the banana in the tailpipe, the lie about how Miami "doesn't use" all of its scholarships. Posters don't understand the difference between the 85 scholarship limit, and the 25 IC enrollees per year limit. They confuse the two. They think that having fewer than 85 recruited scholarship players is a choice, is a result of not using all of our IC counters, but that isn't true.

We don't have any countbacks left. If we exceed 25 enrollees this year, we will be lucky, and it will be due to the mid-year graduation replacement exception. That's just the truth. We need better development and retention of our signees. Only then will we be close to carrying 85 recruited scholarship players.
Click to expand...
Hence, we still have players that stick around like T Mart and Dykstra/Milo. We don't purge the current roster as much as people think. Steed and Wilder were still on scholly even though their chances of ever reaching the field were slim and none.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Go blow yourself.

This board is full of idiots who have only been looking up the number of NSD signees, and then falsely claiming that we have 5 countbacks for the past 10 years.

It isn't true.

We are out of countbacks.
Click to expand...
You are really angry because I named you after a post about people who fit the description. The shoes fits so wear it and stop crying.
Idgaf about the **** so chirp at them other folks
 
TheOriginalCane said:
You are wrong.

We have "played with fewer than 85 recruited scholarship players" because a ton of kids leave UM, and we don't have the numbers UNDER THE INITIAL COUNTER RULES to get back to 85.

So just do the math. There are idiots on this board who claim that we have between 1 and 5 countbacks left. That we have not ever "caught up" and exceeded 25 since 2011. Let's pretend that's true, and that in any given year between 2011 and 2019, we could have signed FIVE MORE kids under the IC rules.

Would we still be at 85? Good lord, someone just posted that we currently have 74 recruited scholarship players. Thus, this magical "can't get to 85" problem is NOT, in fact, "fixed" by signing a few extra countbacks. IT WILL ONLY BE FIXED VIA RETENTION. And development. In any 5 year period, we can enroll 125 kids, we can "lose" 40", and we would still be at 85 recruited scholarship players. YET WE CAN'T SEEM TO DO IT.

The solution is not to sign a couple of extra players (due to a misunderstanding of how many players Miami has signed and/or enrolled over the past decade). Posters keep falling for the banana in the tailpipe, the lie about how Miami "doesn't use" all of its scholarships. Posters don't understand the difference between the 85 scholarship limit, and the 25 IC enrollees per year limit. They confuse the two. They think that having fewer than 85 recruited scholarship players is a choice, is a result of not using all of our IC counters, but that isn't true.

We don't have any countbacks left. If we exceed 25 enrollees this year, we will be lucky, and it will be due to the mid-year graduation replacement exception. That's just the truth. We need better development and retention of our signees. Only then will we be close to carrying 85 recruited scholarship players.
Click to expand...
That is bs. The circumstances this cycle are not the same as the circumstances over past years. Richt did not max out initial counters and go backwards. And he allowed the roster to get well below it should have been. Rule changes since ’18 make it harder to refill today.

also, the staff is responsible for departures. Its not some big head scratcher. Golden took too many kids who would never get in or stay in and dealt with sanctions. Richt inherited a reduced roster and refused to do everything he could to refill it. Which is precisely why manny had to hammer the portal when he got promited. Because he could. Because we had room.
 
This thread has actually made the final number worth dissecting.

TheOriginalCane gets the W if it is 25 plus any number used due to a winter graduation exception. He seems uber confident.

Any other result gives the W to the field.
 
Advertisement
Ethnicsands said:
That is bs. The circumstances this cycle are not the same as the circumstances over past years. Richt did not max out initial counters and go backwards. And he allowed the roster to get well below it should have been. Rule changes since ’18 make it harder to refill today.

also, the staff is responsible for departures. Its not some big head scratcher. Golden took too many kids who would never get in or stay in and dealt with sanctions. Richt inherited a reduced roster and refused to do everything he could to refill it. Which is precisely why manny had to hammer the portal when he got promited. Because he could. Because we had room.
Click to expand...


You are wrong.

First, the whole "Richt did not max out initial counters" is silly. The Rivals signing lists for 2016-2018 show 19, 24, and 23 guys. Plus we took transfers like Adrian Colbert, George Brown Jr., Vinnie Testaverde, and Gerald Willis, among others. You can only count back 5 guys per year (you can't sign 0 guys one year and then 50 the next year). So, again, if you choose not to count transfers and late signees, that's on you. Golden's last 2 classes had 27 and 22 signees (total of 49 before even factoring in transfers and late signees), so I'm not sure why you think we had a lot of room to count backwards. It's probably due to the myth of people always counting 5 back. By the way, the IC rules were enacted in 2011. In 2012, we had 33 signees. So how in God's name have people been constantly pushing 5 guys back to prior years?

2011 - 19 signees (not counting transfers) - Golden's first class after being hired
2012 - 33 signees (not counting transfers)
2013 - 19 signees (not counting transfers)
2014 - 27 signees (not counting transfers)
2015 - 22 signees (not counting transfers)
2016 - 19 signees (not counting transfers) - Richt's first class after being hired
2017 - 24 signees (not counting transfers)
2018 - 23 signees (not counting transfers)
2019 - 18 signees plus 8 transfers - Diaz's first class after being hired

In the 9 years of the IC rules, we should have 225 ICs to use. Now, factoring in the (minimal) 4 guys I mentioned earlier (not sure what years they transferred), that is 216 Initial Counters over 9 years, which is 24 per year, and I haven't even made a serious effort to identify transfers and late enrollees (outside of the 8 last year plus the 4 I could remember off the top of my head who are now playing in the NFL, well, except for George Brown Jr). I mean, just think about late enrollees (something Golden was famous for), such as Thurston Armbrister IV.

Whoever thinks that three coaching staffs have refused to use all of our ICs is just nuts. Golden, Richt, and Diaz have done everything possible to sign the maximum number of HS players, JuCos, and transfers.

As for Manny's one year track record, sure, he hit the portal because of the Portal rule changes (not IC rule changes), but also because JUST LIKE GOLDEN AND RICHT IN THEIR FIRST YEARS ON THE JOB, he only managed a high school signing class of less than 20 in his first year.

It's not because Manny had COUNTBACK room under the IC rules. It's because Manny had ACTUAL room to enroll more transfers under the 25 number.

Finally, please tell me about all these "2018 rules changes" that make everything harder. I'd like to hear specifics on that. Because you're just making up nonsense. You'll probably try to yap about the Portal, but transfers have always counted as ICs.
 
Offense: 11-12

Van Dyke
Chaney
Knighton
Redding
Restrepo
Worsham
Emilien
Mammarelli
Rivers
Washington
Baynes

and Maybe 1 more OL

Defense: 14-16

C. Williams
Q. Williams
Height
Harrell (DE)
Roberts
Moise
Austin-Cave
Flagg
Harrell (DB)
Clarke
Brown
Francois
Balom

2-3 out of the following -
Mathis
K. Washington
Flowe
Greene
Hyppolite
 
TheOriginalCane said:
You are wrong.

First, the whole "Richt did not max out initial counters" is silly. The Rivals signing lists for 2016-2018 show 19, 24, and 23 guys. Plus we took transfers like Adrian Colbert, George Brown Jr., Vinnie Testaverde, and Gerald Willis, among others. You can only count back 5 guys per year (you can't sign 0 guys one year and then 50 the next year). So, again, if you choose not to count transfers and late signees, that's on you. Golden's last 2 classes had 27 and 22 signees (total of 49 before even factoring in transfers and late signees), so I'm not sure why you think we had a lot of room to count backwards. It's probably due to the myth of people always counting 5 back. By the way, the IC rules were enacted in 2011. In 2012, we had 33 signees. So how in God's name have people been constantly pushing 5 guys back to prior years?

2011 - 19 signees (not counting transfers) - Golden's first class after being hired
2012 - 33 signees (not counting transfers)
2013 - 19 signees (not counting transfers)
2014 - 27 signees (not counting transfers)
2015 - 22 signees (not counting transfers)
2016 - 19 signees (not counting transfers) - Richt's first class after being hired
2017 - 24 signees (not counting transfers)
2018 - 23 signees (not counting transfers)
2019 - 18 signees plus 8 transfers - Diaz's first class after being hired

In the 9 years of the IC rules, we should have 225 ICs to use. Now, factoring in the (minimal) 4 guys I mentioned earlier (not sure what years they transferred), that is 216 Initial Counters over 9 years, which is 24 per year, and I haven't even made a serious effort to identify transfers and late enrollees (outside of the 8 last year plus the 4 I could remember off the top of my head who are now playing in the NFL, well, except for George Brown Jr). I mean, just think about late enrollees (something Golden was famous for), such as Thurston Armbrister IV.

Whoever thinks that three coaching staffs have refused to use all of our ICs is just nuts. Golden, Richt, and Diaz have done everything possible to sign the maximum number of HS players, JuCos, and transfers.

As for Manny's one year track record, sure, he hit the portal because of the Portal rule changes (not IC rule changes), but also because JUST LIKE GOLDEN AND RICHT IN THEIR FIRST YEARS ON THE JOB, he only managed a high school signing class of less than 20 in his first year.

It's not because Manny had COUNTBACK room under the IC rules. It's because Manny had ACTUAL room to enroll more transfers under the 25 number.

Finally, please tell me about all these "2018 rules changes" that make everything harder. I'd like to hear specifics on that. Because you're just making up nonsense. You'll probably try to yap about the Portal, but transfers have always counted as ICs.
Click to expand...
Prior to 2018, initial counters was measured differently. You could oversign, some kids didn’t get in, some grey shirted. So you saw big signing classes, but the LOIs didnt all translate to initial counters. Starting in ‘18, that got effectively shut down. Now LOIs count, so non qualifiers still eat an initial counter and grey shirts do. So trying to calculate the initial counter spots used historically based on LOIs doesn't work. Not all those kids became initial counters. Here is an article discussing it. https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_f03e6112-0a8c-11e8-9dd4-2b23fb9d9fbe.html

Separately, you say you can only count back 5 kids. I’ve seen that said often around here. Maybe it’s true, but I haven’t found where it is written in the NCAA rules. If you can point me to the source for that limitation, I’d appreciate it. Someone once posted a link to an article that claimed this, but the article itself had no source for the claim.
 
nvlahos said:
Offense: 11-12

Van Dyke
Chaney
Knighton
Redding
Restrepo
Worsham
Emilien
Mammarelli
Rivers
Washington
Baynes

and Maybe 1 more OL

Defense: 14-16

C. Williams
Q. Williams
Height
Harrell (DE)
Roberts
Moise
Austin-Cave
Flagg
Harrell (DB)
Clarke
Brown
Francois
Balom

2-3 out of the following -
Mathis
K. Washington
Flowe
Greene
Hyppolite
Click to expand...
I agree with the defense. I know they would like 4 WRs but I wonder if they would take Darnell Washington over a 4th WR.
 
Advertisement
Ethnicsands said:
Prior to 2018, initial counters was measured differently. You could oversign, some kids didn’t get in, some grey shirted. So you saw big signing classes, but the LOIs didnt all translate to initial counters. Starting in ‘18, that got effectively shut down. Now LOIs count, so non qualifiers still eat an initial counter and grey shirts do. So trying to calculate the initial counter spots used historically based on LOIs doesn't work. Not all those kids became initial counters. Here is an article discussing it. https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_f03e6112-0a8c-11e8-9dd4-2b23fb9d9fbe.html

Separately, you say you can only count back 5 kids. I’ve seen that said often around here. Maybe it’s true, but I haven’t found where it is written in the NCAA rules. If you can point me to the source for that limitation, I’d appreciate it. Someone once posted a link to an article that claimed this, but the article itself had no source for the claim.
Click to expand...


Your entire post is irrelevant as it relates to Miami.

Miami didn't have any non-qualifiers. Miami didn't have any grayshirts. Miami didn't have any blueshirts. I don't care about some LSU article when Miami wasn't doing any of that SEC garbage. What I am saying is that WHILE IT MAY HAVE BEEN HARDER FOR SABAN TO MANIPULATE NUMBERS, the rule changes didn't impact Miami, because Miami wasn't manipulating numbers with academic non-qualifiers, grayshirts, or blueshirts.

Don't start a conversation based on hypotheticals, stick to the Miami signing classes. If you think that Miami had non-qualifiers from 2011 to 2019, state the names. If you think that Miami had grayshirts or blueshirts from 2011 to 2019, state the names.

For YEARS, we have been tracking our signees, and we have not grayshirted or blueshirted, and everyone has qualified.

Look, I did the quick calculation in my earlier post just to prove out that the MYTH of Golden and Richt NOT using all of the IC slots is ridiculous. We enrolled all of our signees, plus we had transfers during those 9 years, plus we had late signees. I'm not mad at you personally, I'm just tired of the guys who only look at the signing class numbers and equate that number to the ICs.

You claimed that Richt undersigned. I pointed out that we had 66 guys on the Signing Classes alone from 2016-18, and I know we had transfers too, and somewhere in that 3-year period we probably hit 75 ICs or **** close to it. So if some people think that Richt was just being lazy (because they only look at the signing day numbers), that's ridiculous.
 
Sign 40 guys, cerulean-shirt as many as possible (let's say 5), and dare the NCAA to do anything about it.
 
There was a porster who use to post an excel spreadsheet with all the numbers. Dont remember their name
 
Advertisement
TallyCane said:
I would too but apparently he punched one of his coaches and manny has let it be know he doesn’t want “Cancers” in the locker room UGA has moved off him because of it. I think that’s why Theo Johnson moved his decision back.
Click to expand...

oh yes I thought you meant from just a talent perspective! I did hear that story..i would think we are in more need to take risks than UGA
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Your entire post is irrelevant as it relates to Miami.

Miami didn't have any non-qualifiers. Miami didn't have any grayshirts. Miami didn't have any blueshirts. I don't care about some LSU article when Miami wasn't doing any of that SEC garbage. What I am saying is that WHILE IT MAY HAVE BEEN HARDER FOR SABAN TO MANIPULATE NUMBERS, the rule changes didn't impact Miami, because Miami wasn't manipulating numbers with academic non-qualifiers, grayshirts, or blueshirts.

Don't start a conversation based on hypotheticals, stick to the Miami signing classes. If you think that Miami had non-qualifiers from 2011 to 2019, state the names. If you think that Miami had grayshirts or blueshirts from 2011 to 2019, state the names.

For YEARS, we have been tracking our signees, and we have not grayshirted or blueshirted, and everyone has qualified.

Look, I did the quick calculation in my earlier post just to prove out that the MYTH of Golden and Richt NOT using all of the IC slots is ridiculous. We enrolled all of our signees, plus we had transfers during those 9 years, plus we had late signees. I'm not mad at you personally, I'm just tired of the guys who only look at the signing class numbers and equate that number to the ICs.

You claimed that Richt undersigned. I pointed out that we had 66 guys on the Signing Classes alone from 2016-18, and I know we had transfers too, and somewhere in that 3-year period we probably hit 75 ICs or **** close to it. So if some people think that Richt was just being lazy (because they only look at the signing day numbers), that's ridiculous.
Click to expand...
You asked about a rule change in 2108 that I referenced. I responded.

You listed signee numbers going back to 2011 as if they all necessarily equated to initial counters. Under the pre 2018 rule, they didn’t.

You say we didn't have anyone sign who didnt enroll (or something to that effect). That is wrong.

In 2011, Grooms, Kinard and Gadbois didnt enroll that cycle (Gadbois did next cycle).

In 2012, AJL and probably Witt never became initial counters, and not sure V. Davis did as he left before school started but did suit up in camp.

In 2013, Bond, Griffin and Lockley didn’t enroll to the best of my recollection.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top