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Interesting stat regarding the NFL Combine

DMoney said:
Nope- only 2010 on. And only the 19 players identified in your post. This doesn't include Day 3 guys or UDFAs.

  • Jimmy Graham- 132
  • Orlando Franklin- 89
  • Brandon Harris- 0
  • Leonard Hankerson- 14
  • Demarcus Van Dyke- 4
  • Allen Bailey- 70
  • Olivier Vernon- 108
  • Sean Spence- 23
  • Brandon Linder- 88
  • Ereck Flowers- 101
  • Phillip Dorsett- 19
  • Denzel Perryman- 77
  • Clive Walford- 14
  • Duke Johnson- 21
  • Artie Burns- 21
  • David Njoku- 50
  • Chad Thomas- 8
  • Jaelan Phillips- 20
  • Gregory Rousseau- 30


889 starts
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Which players account for the 9 Pro Bowls, 5 Pro Bowlers and 3 All-Pros? I could very well be wrong - but I'm seeing Jimmy Graham 5 Pro-Bowls + 1 All-Pro, Vernon 1 PB, Perryman 1 PB

Availability Has Been an Issue
- 50% of our Round 1 picks & 25% of those starts played 2 years or less here - Njoku, Rousseau, Phillips, Graham
- The best player is Jimmy Graham by far - but in his 1 year he was #7on the team in receiving and was the #2 TE behind Dedrick Epps
- Throw in Duke Johnson & Phillip Dorsett (both missed a half year to injury) and Olivier Vernon (6 game suspension)

The amount we've had our best players on the field has been troubling low
 
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bshaw28 said:
Which players account for the 9 Pro Bowls, 5 Pro Bowlers and 3 All-Pros? I could very well be wrong - but I'm seeing Jimmy Graham 5 Pro-Bowls + 1 All-Pro, Vernon 1 PB, Perryman 1 PB
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5 PB for Jimmy
1 for Vernon
1 for Perryman
1 for Miller
1 for Shields

All-Pros Jimmy (x2), Vernon and Berrios.

I could see how that part was confusing- the Pro Bowl/All-Pro numbers are for the entire set, not just the Day 1-2 guys. They go to the quality point. I expect that number to go up with Njoku, Phillips and Rousseau.
 
DMoney said:
Nope- only 2010 on. And only the 19 players identified in your post. This doesn't include Day 3 guys or UDFAs.

  • Jimmy Graham- 132
  • Orlando Franklin- 89
  • Brandon Harris- 0
  • Leonard Hankerson- 14
  • Demarcus Van Dyke- 4
  • Allen Bailey- 70
  • Olivier Vernon- 108
  • Sean Spence- 23
  • Brandon Linder- 88
  • Ereck Flowers- 101
  • Phillip Dorsett- 19
  • Denzel Perryman- 77
  • Clive Walford- 14
  • Duke Johnson- 21
  • Artie Burns- 21
  • David Njoku- 50
  • Chad Thomas- 8
  • Jaelan Phillips- 20
  • Gregory Rousseau- 30


889 starts
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I addressed this a response.

Jimmy is misleading b/c he wasn’t impactful here. He played one season (2009) and he had only 213 yrds receiving. He was drafted on potential + teams were looking for the next Antonio Gates.

What u’re also seeing is the problem.

Jimmy-draft class of ‘10
Franklin, Harris, Hank, DVD, Bailey-draft class of ‘11
Vernon, Spence-draft class of ‘12
Linder-draft class of ‘14
Flowers, Dorsett, Perryman, Walford, Duke- draft class of ‘15
Burns-draft class of ‘16
Njoku-draft class of ‘17
Thomas-draft class of ‘18
GR15, Phillips-draft class ‘21

OK, again, looking at the UNC (since they’ve been a thorn)
Draft of 2010:
Miami: 1 player in the top 3
UNC: 0 (-1)

Draft of 2011:
Miami: 5 players in the top 3
UNC: 4 (-1)

Draft of 2012: Miami: 2 players in the top 3
UNC: 2

Draft of 2013
Miami: 0 players in the top 3
UNC: 4 (+4)

Draft of 2014:
Miami: 1 player in the top 3
UNC: 2 (+1)

Draft of 2015:
Miami: 5 players in the top 3
UNC: 0 (-5)

Draft of 2016:
Miami: 1 player in the top 3
UNC: 0 (-1)

Draft of 2017:
Miami: 1 player in the top 3
UNC: 2 (+1)

Draft of 2018:
Miami: 1 player in the top 3
UNC: 1

Draft of 2019:
Miami: 0 players in the top 3
UNC: 0

Draft of 2020:
Miami: 0 players in the top 3
UNC / 0

Draft of 2021:
Miami: 2 players in the top 3
UNC: 3 (+1)

Draft of 2022:
Miami: 0 players in the top 3
UNC: 1 (+1)

Just from the example u provided, again we’re talking quality NFL draft picks; We’ve not overwhelmed UNC in this dept. Some seasons we’ve had better talent, & other seasons they’ve had better talent. On avg, in the ACC, based upon draft results, we’ve completely out talented Duke & Pitt for the most part, however w/ the rest, we’re talking about having no more than 3 better guys on our roster in any given season than our opponents. Not one of those 3 is a QB.
 
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DMoney said:
Nope- only 2010 on. And only the 19 players identified in your post. This doesn't include Day 3 guys or UDFAs.

  • Jimmy Graham- 132
  • Orlando Franklin- 89
  • Brandon Harris- 0
  • Leonard Hankerson- 14
  • Demarcus Van Dyke- 4
  • Allen Bailey- 70
  • Olivier Vernon- 108
  • Sean Spence- 23
  • Brandon Linder- 88
  • Ereck Flowers- 101
  • Phillip Dorsett- 19
  • Denzel Perryman- 77
  • Clive Walford- 14
  • Duke Johnson- 21
  • Artie Burns- 21
  • David Njoku- 50
  • Chad Thomas- 8
  • Jaelan Phillips- 20
  • Gregory Rousseau- 30


889 starts
Click to expand...

The fact Jimmy Graham is at the top of this list really hurts your underlying premise that the NFL Draft is such a meaningful barometer of collegiate talent. One season of football for 13 games played, 17 catches, 213 yards, and 5 TDs, but he makes up 15% of the NFL starts you posted.

More nuance is required.
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
The fact Jimmy Graham is at the top of this list really hurts your underlying premise that the NFL Draft is such a meaningful barometer of collegiate talent. One season of football for 13 games played, 17 catches, 213 yards, and 5 TDs, but he makes up 15% of the NFL starts you posted.

More nuance is required.
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Exactly, spot on.
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
The fact Jimmy Graham is at the top of this list really hurts your underlying premise that the NFL Draft is such a meaningful barometer of collegiate talent. One season of football for 13 games played, 17 catches, 213 yards, and 5 TDs, but he makes up 15% of the NFL starts you posted.

More nuance is required.
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Remove his starts and it's still 757- far more than UNC.

We know the backstory behind our guys, but I'm sure there are several guys on UNC's list that can be picked apart. Ultimately, total numbers with a large sample size are the best evidence.
 
DMoney said:
Remove his starts and it's still 757- far more than UNC.

We know the backstory behind our guys, but I'm sure there are several guys on UNC's list that can be picked apart. Ultimately, total numbers with a large sample size are the best evidence.
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Generally, sure. But the conclusions drawn from those numbers and the impact of those numbers on something as nebulous as "collegiate talent advantage" remains far from settled.

On a related note, I don't like blindly focusing on 247 composite rankings to determine which teams have more talent, either. They're great for setting a general proposition (like blue chip ratio), but less useful for making broad conclusions about overall talent on a collegiate roster.
 
DMoney said:
5 PB for Jimmy
1 for Vernon
1 for Perryman
1 for Miller
1 for Shields

All-Pros Jimmy (x2), Vernon and Berrios.

I could see how that part was confusing- the Pro Bowl/All-Pro numbers are for the entire set, not just the Day 1-2 guys. They go to the quality point. I expect that number to go up with Njoku, Phillips and Rousseau.
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OK - gotcha. Again - I agree with you we should win more. I just think it's more along the lines of "we should win 1 more game a year than we have been" vs 2-3 games more.

So of the 9 guys listed here - it gives more to my "lack of availability of our best players" point

Perryman - 4 years
Berrios - 4 years
Shields - 4 years - but switched from WR to DB and was in Shannon's doghouse and didn't play for a good year and a half
Vernon - 3 years - but suspended 6 games Junior year (and pretty much mailed it in 2nd half of his JR year)
Miller - 2 years - left as a RS-So
Njoku - 2 years - left as a RS-So
Rousseau - 2 years - sat out JR yr because of Covid and really only played his SO year
Phillips - 1 year - transfer
Graham - 1 year - transitioning basketball player & was our #7 receiver the 1 year he played. HOF'er level NFL Career - but hard to count him as much of a contributor to Miami

Great talents all of them. Loved them as players. Just sucks how little they actually played at Miami.
 
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DMoney said:
You guys have now conceded the first five years of the argument. I'll also assume you won't argue in favor of Virginia Tech (63% of Miami's Top 3 round talent), UVA (31% ) or Georgia Tech (31%). Those teams accounted for six Coastal titles since 2010, by the way.
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Technically we won the Coastal in 2012, but forfeited it because of "The Cloud" which gave it to GT (understand if you think this is nitpicky)

Since 2010 the Coastal Champion count "technically" is - VT 3, Miami 2, GT 1, UVA 1

Since 2010 - The Coastal Champion had to play FSU during the regular season 3 times - Miami 2012 & 2017, UVA 2019.

Miami plays FSU in the regular season every year, while the Coastal Champ never does. That makes a difference. We're playing FSU at a 13 to 1 ratio.
 
bshaw28 said:
Technically we won the Coastal in 2012, but forfeited it because of "The Cloud" which gave it to GT (understand if you think this is nitpicky)

Since 2010 the Coastal Champion count "technically" is - VT 3, Miami 2, GT 1, UVA 1

Since 2010 - The Coastal Champion had to play FSU during the regular season 3 times - Miami 2012 & 2017, UVA 2019.

Miami plays FSU in the regular season every year, while the Coastal Champ never does. That makes a difference. We're playing FSU at a 13 to 1 ratio.
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Just out of curiosity are u discounting GT’s 2012 championship due to a self imposed sanction in this example? B/c if we’re doing technicalities, UNC was the real Coastal Champion in 2012, but due to sanctions they were ineligible.
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
The fact Jimmy Graham is at the top of this list really hurts your underlying premise that the NFL Draft is such a meaningful barometer of collegiate talent. One season of football for 13 games played, 17 catches, 213 yards, and 5 TDs, but he makes up 15% of the NFL starts you posted.

More nuance is required.
Click to expand...

100%.

34% of our draft picks the last 15 years have been in rounds 6 & 7.

At that point it becomes a bit of a dart throw, so slightly better odds to gamble on the athlete from South Florida. But emphasis on slight (which is our whole point). That gamble is one the reasons our Day 3 numbers remain so high.

Special shot out here to 2011 6th RD pick TE Richard Gordon.

- Captain of the "My Birth Certificate says I'm 16 but I'm actually 32" Team
- In 5 years at Miami he had 10 catches for 62 yds at Miami. He played 5 yrs in the NFL and had 4 catches for 14 yds.
- He made over $2 million for 76 yds receiving in 10 years. Gordon is my dude.
 
bshaw28 said:
100%.

34% of our draft picks the last 15 years have been in rounds 6 & 7.

At that point it becomes a bit of a dart throw, so slightly better odds to gamble on the athlete from South Florida. But emphasis on slight (which is our whole point). That gamble is one the reasons our Day 3 numbers remain so high.

Special shot out here to 2011 6th RD pick TE Richard Gordon.

- Captain of the "My Birth Certificate says I'm 16 but I'm actually 32" Team
- In 5 years at Miami he had 10 catches for 62 yds at Miami. He played 5 yrs in the NFL and had 4 catches for 14 yds.
- He made over $2 million for 76 yds receiving in 10 years. Gordon is my dude.
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$500,000 per catch. not too shabby
 
Rellyrell said:
Just out of curiosity are u discounting GT’s 2012 championship due to a self imposed sanction in this example? B/c if we’re doing technicalities, UNC was the real Coastal Champion in 2012, but due to sanctions they were ineligible.
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You're right! I was wrong

Everyone in the Coastal was driving in reverse that year.
 
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BoxingRobes said:
Don't feed the troll.
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So, instead of responding to the cold, hard numbers in this post, you tuck tail and run?

This is why I tagged you- I knew you had nothing. Salute to the others for at least trying to nibble around the edges.

If you're looking at quality, our guys started significantly more NFL games. They were better NFL players. If you're looking at quantity, we had way more NFL players. By either measure, Miami is far ahead of the rest of the Coastal.
 
DMoney said:
So, instead of responding to the mountains of numbers in this post--which eviscerate the point you were trying to make about "quality"--you tuck tail and run?

This is why I tagged you- I knew you had nothing. Salute to the others for at least trying to nibble around the edges.
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Your responses are just spin cycle nonsense and you keep moving the goalposts to try and wiggle your way out of an embarrassing take that you've had for over a decade. Relly and bshaw already retorted. Do you just want me to quote them?

You're asking me to respond to a take asking why Miami hasn't not done as well as Pitt in the ACC lately as if you can not wrap your mind around the idea that Pitt had Kenny Pickett on two of those teams, Jordan Addison on one of'em, Damar Hamlin, Rashad Weaver and other pros on the defense on the other. Or why UVA, a team that still has their QB and WR in the NFL, won the Coastal despite Miami having more Joe Jacksons and a Hollywood script writer at QB.

You then move your take to high end players...perhaps more of a fair conversation...but your response to that is they played a lot of games in the NFL and it was already refuted by others that many of those players barely played for Miami. You're using examples like Jimmy Graham lmfao. You're just now having an unserious conversation trying to wiggle your way our of your decade long **** take.

You should tuck your tail and run to Purgatory as a show of fairness on this forum because you're just trolling at this point. Many regular posters have been sent there for less.
 
BoxingRobes said:
Your responses are just spin cycle nonsense and you keep moving the goalposts to try and wiggle your way out of an embarrassing take that you've had for over a decade. Relly and bshaw already retorted. Do you just want me to quote them?

You're asking me to respond to a take asking why Miami hasn't not done as well as Pitt in the ACC lately as if you can not wrap your mind around the idea that Pitt had Kenny Pickett on two of those teams, Jordan Addison on one of'em, Damar Hamlin, Rashad Weaver and other pros on the defense on the other. Or why UVA, a team that still has their QB and WR in the NFL, won the Coastal despite Miami having more Joe Jacksons and a Hollywood script writer at QB.

You then move your take to high end players...perhaps more of a fair conversation...but your response to that is they played a lot of games in the NFL and it was already refuted by others that many of those players barely played for Miami. You're using examples like Jimmy Graham lmfao. You're just now having an unserious conversation trying to wiggle your way our of your decade long **** take.

You should tuck your tail and run to Purgatory as a show of fairness on this forum because you're just trolling at this point. Many regular posters have been sent there for less.
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¿donde está @PIPO?
 
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