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Interesting stat regarding the NFL Combine

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Can we all agree with talent, no talent, coaches and corches, we sucked for a loooong time and after finally giving a corch a blank check to hire a legit staff we sucked even more last year getting mopped by the likes of MTSU and Duke at home in totally embarrassing fashion. There aint no raw data that can excuse that..
 
DMoney said:
The argument has always been about the ACC Coastal. Good luck finding posts saying that we had the same talent as Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State and Clemson. The frontline talent was always the difference there.

As for the name-calling, feel free to address me as DMoney. I stand by my takes, and don't need to change my name to hide from them.
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@DMoney - what are your expectations here? Like, how many more games do you think Miami should be winning? Not trying to attack, honestly just wondering.

Below are players Drafted 2010 - 2022 (13 years). How anyone frames their argument can change depending on what Round you use as a cut-off, so I wanted to show them all.

Miami is 6-7 vs UNC the last 13 years
If you look at players drafted thru 2 Rounds, UNC has a small advantage - 4 more
Thru 3 it's the same.
Thru 5 Miami has a small advantage - 4 more
Thru 7 Rounds - Miami has 17 more overall, with 13 being 6th & 7th Round picks.

Miami is 4-9 vs FSU the last 13 years
If you look at players drafted thru 2 Rounds, FSU has a large advantage - 16 more
Thru 3 FSU has a large advantage - 9 more
Thru 5 FSU has a small advantage - 3 more
Thru 7 Rounds - Miami has 2 more. Miami's 21 6th & 7th Round picks (compared to 16 FSU / 8 UNC) gives them the overall advantage


1678326480629.png


My Questions to you DMoney is:

1) What would you expect Miami's record to be vs UNC the last 13 years?
2) What would you expect Miami's record to be vs FSU the last 13 years?
3) If Miami has an "overwhelming" advantage over UNC in talent, how would you describe Miami's talent compared to FSU the last 13 years?
 
bshaw28 said:
@DMoney - what are your expectations here? Like, how many more games do you think Miami should be winning? Not trying to attack, honestly just wondering.

Below are players Drafted 2010 - 2022 (13 years). How anyone frames their argument can change depending on what Round you use as a cut-off, so I wanted to show them all.

Miami is 6-7 vs UNC the last 13 years
If you look at players drafted thru 2 Rounds, UNC has a small advantage - 4 more
Thru 3 it's the same.
Thru 5 Miami has a small advantage - 4 more
Thru 7 Rounds - Miami has 17 more overall, with 13 being 6th & 7th Round picks.

Miami is 4-9 vs FSU the last 13 years
If you look at players drafted thru 2 Rounds, FSU has a large advantage - 16 more
Thru 3 FSU has a large advantage - 9 more
Thru 5 FSU has a small advantage - 3 more
Thru 7 Rounds - Miami has 2 more. Miami's 21 6th & 7th Round picks (compared to 16 FSU / 8 UNC) gives them the overall advantage


View attachment 232502

My Questions to you DMoney is:

1) What would you expect Miami's record to be vs UNC the last 13 years?
2) What would you expect Miami's record to be vs FSU the last 13 years?
3) If Miami has an "overwhelming" advantage over UNC in talent, how would you describe Miami's talent compared to FSU the last 13 years?
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I’d say the FSU record looks right. They’ve been better. We should be ahead of UNC but not by the same gap as FSU versus us.

My bigger issue is the other games. Virginia Tech has won the Coastal six times. Georgia Tech has won it five times. We’ve won it once with the most NFL players, the most quality NFL players and the best recruiting rankings. That’s not normal.
 
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DMoney said:
So, instead of responding to the cold, hard numbers in this post, you tuck tail and run?

This is why I tagged you- I knew you had nothing. Salute to the others for at least trying to nibble around the edges.

If you're looking at quality, our guys started significantly more NFL games. They were better NFL players. If you're looking at quantity, we had way more NFL players. By either measure, Miami is far ahead of the rest of the Coastal.
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iM IN 100 PERCENT OF AGREEMENT WITHT HIS...NOT SURE WHY THEY ARGUING THAT PART THOUGH
 
BoxingRobes said:
I've responded to the numbers plenty, you just like to play with them afterward to try generate a cyclical argument. Its trash.

People have already refuted your numbers, provided context, and you're still crying about it. You're using Jimmy Graham, Sam Shields and other players that barely played at this school to prop up your bad take as each layer gets more embarrassing than the last. You've got multiple people telling you that you need context and nuance, but you're just being obtuse. I can't take you seriously at all. You're just flailing your arms, throwing **** at the wall, hoping it somehow sticks.

Its now an unserious conversation, your points have been refuted by multiple people but you're still trying to move the goalposts around. You don't need to qualify UNC's top talent...they've had a Top 3 draft pick at QB, they have 3 QBs drafted in the NFL, all started games. They have a ton of skill guys still in the NFL. They have Hall of Fame players like Robert Quinn. R1 wide receivers like Hakeem Nicks. Gio Bernard, Javonte Williams. They, too, have R1, Pro Bowl TEs. They've had 10 skill guys drafted in the past 5 drafts. But Miami, with Olivier Vernon and his 9 career sacks and horrendous effort in his final season at Miami should have been better because he ended up playing better in the NFL. I think its pretty easy to show that Miami has NOT had superior quality of talent than UNC, especially of any recent vintage. Miami has had a glut of EDGE guys. Cool, I guess. Most of the good ones barely played here.

The other posters can take care of numbers, I've done my fair share of the lifting over the years on that...now I am putting names to this conversation to continue to show how poorly crafted your argument is.
Click to expand...

How much TDS did Jimmy Graham had the 1 year he played?.
iM WITH DMONEY YALL BE GOAL POST MOVING...NOW ITS GONE TO WHO BARELY PLAYED HERE, ETC.
How much games did top 3 qb Mitchell Trubisky start at UNC?.
 
DMoney said:
Let me know where the goalposts are.

First, it was talent between 2005-2023. I showed you we had way more Day 1-2 picks and overall picks then the rest of the Coastal, by far.

Next, you shifted to "quality" talent between 2010-2023. I showed you that our guys started more NFL games, per capita and in the aggregate, during that time period. I showed you they won more accolades like Pro Bowls and All-Pros. And I showed you that the overall NFL numbers remained overwhelmingly in Miami's favor.

Now, you are talking about Jimmy Graham. Remove him, and Miami's Day 1-2 picks still outperformed UNC's by 171 NFL starts.

Move the goalposts again, and I'll be happy to kick it right through.
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wkze64e3m7s71.gif
 
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DMoney said:
Between 2017-2018, Miami had 18 players invited to the NFL combine. Between 2022-2023, there are only six.

We talk a lot about the drop off from elite Canes talent to the Shannon and Golden era. And that was indeed a massive drop. But there was another steep decline from that era to the Richt/Diaz years.
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Just now seeing this thread so maybe this has been addressed many times but am I making a mistake but I think only 2 were recruited here as well

Now I’m not discrediting the use of the portal and how that takes recruiting as well

But 2

Mallory and Ford?

Bolden, King, Rambo, Stevenson were transfers

Holy. ****.
 
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JHallCanes said:
Just now seeing this thread so maybe this has been addressed many times but am I making a mistake but I think only 2 were recruited here as well

Now I’m not discrediting the use of the portal and how that takes recruiting as well

But 2

Mallory and Ford?

Bolden, King, Rambo, Stevenson were transfers

Holy. ****.
Click to expand...

Dang; didn’t even consider this.
 
JHallCanes said:
Just now seeing this thread so maybe this has been addressed many times but am I making a mistake but I think only 2 were recruited here as well

Now I’m not discrediting the use of the portal and how that takes recruiting as well

But 2

Mallory and Ford?

Bolden, King, Rambo, Stevenson were transfers

Holy. ****.
Click to expand...
At least the best one on this list (Stevenson) was heavily recruited by the staff and we just couldn't get a commit from him.
 
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skyman said:
Can we all agree with talent, no talent, coaches and corches, we sucked for a loooong time and after finally giving a corch a blank check to hire a legit staff we sucked even more last year getting mopped by the likes of MTSU and Duke at home in totally embarrassing fashion. There aint no raw data that can excuse that..
Click to expand...
100%
 
gogeta4 said:
How much TDS did Jimmy Graham had the 1 year he played?.
iM WITH DMONEY YALL BE GOAL POST MOVING...NOW ITS GONE TO WHO BARELY PLAYED HERE, ETC.
How much games did top 3 qb Mitchell Trubisky start at UNC?.
Click to expand...

Graham had 213 yds receiving & 5 TD's his one year on the team. He was the #2 TE
Trubisky had 305 yds rushing & 5 TD's his one year as a starter.
Trubisky also had 3,700 yds passing & 30 TD's
Turbisky also had 1,000 yds passing & 11 TD's prior to his 1 year as a starter

The "moving the goalposts" comment comes because this has splintered into 2 different arguments that aren't being tied together correctly.

1) Who is the better NFL Talent
Jimmy Graham by far. By a wide margin

2) Who is helped their team win more games in College?
Trubisky by far. By a wide margin

The point is you can't say Jimmy Graham is a 5x NFL Pro-Bowl and use that as a case for why Miami should win more games if he barely played at Miami.

Similarly - you can't acknowledge RD 1 & 2 Draft picks are more talented/valuable, show that UNC has 4 more than Miami since 2010, then make the argument Miami is WAY more talented because Miami has 13 more 6th & 7th RD picks since 2010. That's moving the goalposts.
 
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DMoney said:
I’d say the FSU record looks right. They’ve been better. We should be ahead of UNC but not by the same gap as FSU versus us.

My bigger issue is the other games. Virginia Tech has won the Coastal six times. Georgia Tech has won it five times. We’ve won it once with the most NFL players, the most quality NFL players and the best recruiting rankings. That’s not normal.
Click to expand...

So when it's put into numbers - Miami 6 wins vs UNC & FSU has 9 wins vs Miami in the last 13 years.
So if the FSU-Miami gap is wider - Miami should've only have won 1-2 more games vs UNC the last 13 years (to make 7-8 total) but it shouldn't be 9

Is that fair? I'd say 1-2 more wins vs UNC the last 13 years sounds right to me. But that's when I look at things rationally.

Now, in my head as an irrational fan, I'd say:
- We should've beat UNC 3-4 more times the last 13 years. We lost 4 games by 4 points or less
- We should've beat FSU 3-4 more times the last 13 years. We lost 5 games by 5 points or less

VT we struggled with before the ACC. It never made sense. We were 6-6 vs VT in the Big East. Butch was 1-5 with WAY more of a talent advantage than our ACC teams. GT is such a weird outlier with that offense.

But I 100% agree not winning the Coastal doesn't make sense. IMO we should've won the Coastal at least 2-3 more times.

Looking back - the 2010-2014 teams are the ones I'm really disappointed in. The other years I'm not that surprised - I think they performed about right relative to their talent level (for the most part).
 
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